Where do you think Ellis is at??

[Captain Crawf]

For me “X” has been one of the biggest disappointments after showing such promising signs in the GF. When the team was up and about he looked great. However when the team struggles he generally seems to struggle.

There is every chance that he may turn out to be the player that we all hope he will be. But I’m starting have my doubts.

At present he is a serviceable player at best, but certainly not what you'd expect from a top 3 draft pick. I know people say that you shouldn't judge a player based on where they were selected in the draft, however you don't get a crack at the top 3 kids in the land every year. As far as importance to the team, I think Birch is far more valuable. And to consider he was taken in the same draft, 11 picks later.

Would never question his courage, when it’s his turn to go he’s never afraid to stick his head over the pill, but often goes to ground far too easily, can’t recall the last time he was able to make a tackle stick and quite often butchers the ball by foot. (4 times on Sunday)

The intention wasn't to make this a player bashing thread, just wanting to get a few different perspectives.

History may show that the draft of 2005 may be the reason our time at the top was shorter than it could have been.

 

[djboonie]

I think his game on the weekend was solid.

His best game this year, and definitely had an impact on the game. Considering his nose was smeared across his face last week, his courage this week to head into contests was extremely admirable.

I'm predicting a return to form from the young man.

Whether or not he fulfills the expectations of being a #3 pick... who knows.

Happy to keep putting time into him ATM

 

[Stratton24]

He does a lot of 1 %'s and little things that go un-noticed.
Against Sydney he had his nose smashed 3 times and looked very groggy, yet with 90 seconds to go on the clock (when he could have been on the bench and out of the game) he laid a perfect tackle on the half back flank that stopped what would have been a flowing move that put the Swans in their forward line. Also against Port he did a great gather and quick hands to Ladson who slotted a great goal. Everyone remembers the Ladson goal but not who gave it to him.

He does his job week in week out.

 

[Great 2008]

He must be on the Josh Thurgood diet. I think X is a great player but tends to play like a bloke carrying 85 - 90 kg......which he does not.

Dont know if he can add bulk, which is a worry given the way he attacks the ball. What position is he really best suited to?

 

[ventor1]

I am not a fan.

Dappy little kicks that go nowhere and more often than not hand balling to stagnant players or players that are about to be tackled. Tell tale signs of a player lacking in confidence, and while he shows all the courage in the world I'd like to see him spend a considerable amount of time at BH building up both confidence and consistency.

 

[Philhawk]

I haven't seen him drill it up to a leading forward in a long time unfortunately. He seems to be only too happy to dish off a handball to someone (like Hodge), but unlike Hodge, he never backs himself to kick it long to a target.

 

[Willie_Rioli]

never seen a player who is so constantly in the wars.
i reckon his nickname should be Kenny coz he dies each week only to somehow return the next game.

 

[87Hawk]

Lets not under estimate the fact the hardly played a game last year due to a pretty serious injury. I think this year for him will be like a player returning back from a knee reco. He just needs some confidence in his body and the rest will follow.

Lets not forget that in 08 he put his body on the line when it was his turn to do so and I am sure once his confidence grows this will return.

 

[xellis]

As others have mentioned, Xman has the look of a player down on confidence. Rarely do you see him take the game on or try to be creative with his play. Whether this is through instruction or lack of confidence I don't know.

This confidence I think will come with extended time in the firsts. Unfortunately for most of his career this hasn't been possible due to injury/lack of fitness. We saw in the second half of 2008, on the back of a string of games together, X hit some form and play some good footy.

He'll never be as eye catching as Daisy, but hopefully he'll reach his potential and become a Power-esk type player. Long way to go, but if he continues to build on his last few weeks we will see some progress in the second half of the year.

 

[The Kipster]

Dappy little kicks that go nowhere .

Correct, I am really sick of those....he needs to sink his slipper into it and gain confidence, finessing around with shitty little kicks does nothing for the team........

"X" if you read this, kick the ****en thing long

 

[Beckers]

I am not a fan.

Dappy little kicks that go nowhere and more often than not hand balling to stagnant players or players that are about to be tackled. Tell tale signs of a player lacking in confidence, and while he shows all the courage in the world I'd like to see him spend a considerable amount of time at BH building up both confidence and consistency.

I know exactly what you mean. He seems to be in the Luke Ball mould but without the big body.

Maybe he needs some time on the ball or in the forward line because he knows how to find it.

 

[noosa hawk mad]

needs to lift imo talking from the 2005 draft Thomas & Penndelbury are streets ahead atm he cant seem top put the weight on mind you some players like Platten & N Lappin seemed to to just fine time will tell but he needs to back him-self to many stupid errors

 

[BobDay]

I am not a fan.

Dappy little kicks that go nowhere and more often than not hand balling to stagnant players or players that are about to be tackled.

Don't blame him for the "dappy little kicks"
That is what his role is and what he is trained and instructed to do.
He is trained and instructed to kick the ball no more than 40m.
If there are no targets or the targets are stationary ...he has a problem but it is not his fault.
He has had little continuity in playing or training and if he does get a good run at it he will be a much better player.
Lets hope his luck changes

 

[Captain Crawf]

Where do you guys think he would fit?

Top 10?

Top 15?

Top20?

I'd have him on form probably 15-20

 

[madhawksfan]

I haven't seen him drill it up to a leading forward in a long time unfortunately. He seems to be only too happy to dish off a handball to someone (like Hodge), but unlike Hodge, he never backs himself to kick it long to a target.

He's a bit like Daniel Cross (not as good though) as he looks to handball first, second and third and only kick as a last resort. I doubt X is ever going to play the way that some people here expect him to (kick 50 plus metres consistently), but a man's got to know his limitations. I think X knows his well, but IMO he needs to look to attack with the ball in hand. Not sure where his best position is atm, as he isn't strong enough to play as an inside mid, is too slow to be a gun outside mid, isn't a good enough kick to play as a forward and I think would struggle one on one in defence. Maybe becoming a run with player will be his go. Not sure, but I hope he can have more games like he did against Carlton.

 

[Captain Crawf]

So in reading through the responses, doesn't kick further than 40m, can't put on wight however he throws his head over the ball.

Why'd we get rid of Tim Clarke??

 

[Cynic]

He's our very own Tambling.

Getting rubbish for not playing as well as other high draft picks but still playing better than a number of other players in the team.

Pick 3 is gone, we're left with Ellis or no Ellis.

 

[hawker39]

A single draft pick no matter what no. they are picked at does not kill your club or even the list. However, poor outcomes do result in lower depth than expected and probably more importantly the on going search for that type of player in a future draft.

So lets look at 3 recent draftees.

Ellis - Pick 3 - Picked as a inside / outside midfielder. He is this but not to the highest quality. Did we have to trade to get Burgoyne because Ellis wasn't all we hoped for?

Dowler - Pick 6 - Let's face he is likely to move on after this season. (Trade or delist). KP forward. You generallyhave at least 2 in your forward line. Ours are Roughead and Franklin. Franklin missed last week and we had no one capable to replace him. We had to structure up and play smaller than we would like. Dowler;s as a bust and let's face it, he is a bust, means we are structurally lacking when No 2 or 23 is missing. So we need to draft another tall in the years ahead.

Thorp - Pick 6 - Gee he must have been bad if we delisted him so quickly. The result is exactly the same a Dowler.

The choices were sound at the time and there is no point in hindsight drafting. However, as you can see the consequences are substantial and ongoing.

 

[Homegrown]

Poor X even Sam Stosur has more muscle

 

[The Kipster]

Don't blame him for the "dappy little kicks"

Ummm, who else do we blame???

do you think the coaches instruct him to kick lollipops and place team mates under pressure?

He is choosing the wrong option in my view and not kicking through the ball.

 

[Tasmaniac]

Ummm, who else do we blame???

do you think the coaches instruct him to kick lollipops and place team mates under pressure?

He is choosing the wrong option in my view and not kicking through the ball.

Someone has already written in this thread, and as I have seen in other threads, yes, the coaches have instructed him to kick short.

So yes, the coaches are responsible for his dappy little kicks. At least partially.

The instruction, plus he seems to have a total absence of explosive power, any kick over 40 metres is a floater. Hell, his kicks out to 40 m appear to be floaters too.

X's greatest limitations are his lack of size, and complete lack of explosiveness.

Apparently he was very quick in his draft camp 20 m sprint test, hard to believe.

 

[La Vache]

For me “X” has been one of the biggest disappointments after showing such promising signs in the GF. When the team was up and about he looked great.

To me Ellis has never looked "great". He's played some good games but he was a 18 - 25 (in relation to our list) player when he cracked it for seniors and has never deviated from that.

His disposal is just o.k, his speed is o.k, tank is o.k, hardness is o.k etc etc...

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Is not in our best 18, which is very poor for a pick 3 in a draft that was pretty handy.

To only get 3 of our 7 top 10 picks vaguely right in the last 8 years is a disgraceful effort by the drafting team.

 

[Ordovician]

A single draft pick no matter what no. they are picked at does not kill your club or even the list. However, poor outcomes do result in lower depth than expected and probably more importantly the on going search for that type of player in a future draft.

So lets look at 3 recent draftees.

Ellis - Pick 3 - Picked as a inside / outside midfielder. He is this but not to the highest quality. Did we have to trade to get Burgoyne because Ellis wasn't all we hoped for?

Dowler - Pick 6 - Let's face he is likely to move on after this season. (Trade or delist). KP forward. You generallyhave at least 2 in your forward line. Ours are Roughead and Franklin. Franklin missed last week and we had no one capable to replace him. We had to structure up and play smaller than we would like. Dowler;s as a bust and let's face it, he is a bust, means we are structurally lacking when No 2 or 23 is missing. So we need to draft another tall in the years ahead.

Thorp - Pick 6 - Gee he must have been bad if we delisted him so quickly. The result is exactly the same a Dowler.

The choices were sound at the time and there is no point in hindsight drafting. However, as you can see the consequences are substantial and ongoing.

No team can afford to piss away top ten draft picks like Pelchon has. Look at the filth if you want to see how to use top ten picks (Ryder, Gumbleton, Myers and Hurley).

We paid for the drafting disasters of 05 and 06 last year and even earlier this year, in terms of lack of depth and we will fall quite rapidly after Hodge, Sewell, Mitchell, Guerra, Bateman all retire in 4 to 5 years time because of these botched drafts.

As for Ellis he has taken a horrendous physical battering this year and last (the nose last week looked very ugly) so naturally his confidence is shot but he's not alone in that eg Roughy.

If he can avoid the beatings for a while he'll come good but I doubt that he will ever be anything other than a make up the numbers type player, he'll never turn games like a Hodge, drag the team forward through tenacity and risk taking like Sewell, or set the crowd alight like a Buddy or a Rioli.

 

[tige19]

Gold coast can have him, he can be the 1 player they are free to sign who are out of contract! Is he out of contract at seasons end??

I was lead to believe we recruited him to be our quarterback player much like del santo, turned out well lol.

Our drafting of first rd picks has been very hit and miss, our trading has been worst. Our picks 20-60 have been a savior for the club, players like Young,Mitchell,renouf,rioli,sewell,bateman,osbourne,campbell,brown etc came to us with little fanfare but produced the goods when needed. Ellis,dowler,thorpe,Bailey etc have been hugely disappointing for a number of reasons.