Where to for Tippett?

[cmndstab]

I love the way Rutten is always accused of being slow. He's as fast as any other FB in the comp, and the only time he's "beaten on the lead" is when delivery is perfect, which no FB can stop. We could put Dangerfield at FB and tell him to get in front of a leading forward, it isn't going to happen.

 

[ruscy002]

I love the way Rutten is always accused of being slow. He's as fast as any other FB in the comp, and the only time he's "beaten on the lead" is when delivery is perfect, which no FB can stop. We could put Dangerfield at FB and tell him to get in front of a leading forward, it isn't going to happen.

Its not just a pace thing, its agility. Guess that's the difference between Fevola and Welsh. Rutten was badly exposed by Welsh's ability to stop and turn very quickly, which isn't a huge strength for Fevola. You're right with Fevola, it will be purely a case of putting pressure on the ball carrier up the field and upsetting the delivery.

As I said, Rutten on Welsh was just a terrible matchup.

Rutten should take Fev if he stays closer to the goals, but I'd be more comfortable with Bock taking him if he gets up the field.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Truck got cleaned up by Fevola in the Vic Flagellation Event for two reasons:
There was no defensive pressure from the midfield, so the delivery to him was better than usual (try outstanding).
He didn't have the usual defensive structures around him.

I dont think there was any tagging going on the night that the Vics stitched up Rutten either.

We wont make the same mistake as the Bullies did and NOT tag the likes of Stevens and Judd either.

 

[SydCrow]

Anyone know how the reverse Coleman is going?

Fev kicked 6 on Harris/Lake and Buddy kicked 4 on the World's Greatest FB. Truck must be in front???

 

[ruscy002]

I dont think there was any tagging going on the night that the Vics stitched up Rutten either.

We wont make the same mistake as the Bullies did and NOT tag the likes of Stevens and Judd either.

Yeah exactly, that game was manufactured to be an open contest, and its not as though any of the midfielders were worried about applying pressure.

We beat Carlton far more easily than I thought we would earlier in the season. They've definitely got form on their side this time around though, so it should be a good contest.

 

[Mismatched]

Honestly? I think Trucks form has been not as good as years past. If we rely on him to stop the currently rampaging Fevola, we will lose. Just my opinion. Hall, Gehrig and Brown are NOT fast (in relation to Rutten)... but the Franklins, Fevolas, Pavlichs' of this world ARE. They are the ones that pull his pants down purely because of their speed. Of course, should we control the midfield, and be able to cut off the pin-point accurate Judd/Stevens passes, we can beat them. But Carlton are a MUCH better team now than the one we played earlier in the season. They are confident... and they are playing well as a team. If we think we have this game won purely because it's Carlton, we've lost before we start.

When has Pavlich pantsed Rutten? The last 2 Pavlich got the better of us you'll find Rutten wasn't playing. Franklin v Rutten is just wrong. Fev as Vader highlighted has only done Rutten in the Vic v DT.

If Fev starts getting the delivery that means he is consistently beating Rutten, then I doubt Bock will be able to do much else. Fev isn't stopped by just one man and the great thing about Fev is that there is very little else in the Carlton forward line to worry about, i.e. no Roughead/Williams or Bradshaw. Carlton will go to him 9 times out of 10, so we can comfortably double team him and assuming the midfield does its job, Carlton wont score goals.

Rutten also has a knack for playing his best footy against the big name players, he rises to the occasion, he is also a very smart full back, he knows how to position himself so as to counter his lack of speed and he is also a great spoiler of the ball, so unless the delivery is perfect he'll get his hand in there and affect a spoil.

As an aside, we really should change the name of this thread to "Fevola - Who gets him?" or something.

 

[ruscy002]

As an aside, we really should change the name of this thread to "Fevola - Who gets him?" or something.

Yeah...what happened there!?

 

[jenny61_99]

I agree that Rutten cannot beat Fev alone. Which means our whole structure has to be working for us to stop them. Personally I'd be more inclined to put Bock on Fev, and either put Moran up forward (his contested marks were pretty good last week) or have Moran rucking with Maric, and Tippett up forward. How would Rutten go in the forward lines?? He'd be hard to match up on.

I sometimes think Rutten is a little over rated because, as has been pointed out, it is the midfield cutting off supply and the loose man in defense that drops in front of the leading forward that is the main reason the forward is defeated rather than the FB.

 

[Allefgib]

Honestly? I think Trucks form has been not as good as years past. If we rely on him to stop the currently rampaging Fevola, we will lose. Just my opinion. Hall, Gehrig and Brown are NOT fast (in relation to Rutten)... but the Franklins, Fevolas, Pavlichs' of this world ARE. They are the ones that pull his pants down purely because of their speed. Of course, should we control the midfield, and be able to cut off the pin-point accurate Judd/Stevens passes, we can beat them. But Carlton are a MUCH better team now than the one we played earlier in the season. They are confident... and they are playing well as a team. If we think we have this game won purely because it's Carlton, we've lost before we start.

I agree Truck hasn't been 'as good' this year. I've been thinking about that alot. Also the fact our forward line isn't kicking enough goals (just to bring it back on topic )

I think our midfield is nowhere near as effective as it has been in the past. To me this explains both problems. Truck appeared to be in great form again last week on Hall. Suprinsingly our midfielf was applying more pressure.. conincidence i think not.

I don't think too many will argue Jenny that Truck isn't as effective on a good hard leading player who gets decent delivery as Bock is. Roughhead for me is the one that craves up Rutten everytime he plays on him by leading well.

What I think people are saying is they prefer Rutten on Fevola as if the rest of the gameplan is right we'll be better off with that match up and can use Bock more for rebounding or possibly up forward again. That's certainly what I prefer.

 

[Allefgib]

I agree that Rutten cannot beat Fev alone. Which means our whole structure has to be working for us to stop them. Personally I'd be more inclined to put Bock on Fev, and either put Moran up forward (his contested marks were pretty good last week) or have Moran rucking with Maric, and Tippett up forward. How would Rutten go in the forward lines?? He'd be hard to match up on.

I sometimes think Rutten is a little over rated because, as has been pointed out, it is the midfield cutting off supply and the loose man in defense that drops in front of the leading forward that is the main reason the forward is defeated rather than the FB.

Everything else being equal, which players in the competition do you feel would do a better job on Fev? Everything else being equal.

I'd suggest Bock wouldn't do a 'better' job. In the competition possibly Scarlett would do better but thats about it.

 

[ruscy002]

I sometimes think Rutten is a little over rated because, as has been pointed out, it is the midfield cutting off supply and the loose man in defense that drops in front of the leading forward that is the main reason the forward is defeated rather than the FB.

Can't agree with that. The structure and game plan assist him in a big way but you still have to be very good to do what he does week in week out. His decision making and ability to read the play are up there with the best of all time. Hardly ever loses his feet and is always a pain in his opponents ass.

He's one of only a few genuine contenders for AA full back every year. Definately not over rated.

 

[jenny61_99]

Everything else being equal, which players in the competition do you feel would do a better job on Fev? Everything else being equal.

I'd suggest Bock wouldn't do a 'better' job. In the competition possibly Scarlett would do better but thats about it.

I just think Bock is better suited to play on Fev... and in all honesty, if we don't control the midfield, neither Bock nor Rutten would stop him. Really thinking about what I've written it appears that I under-value the FB role completely so perhaps it is more accurate for me to say the position of FB is over-rated, regardless of who plays there? I know Rutten plays a pivotal role in our back 6 - one that we could not do without. But I also completely believe that our defense is so successful because they work together to achieve the goal and this is aided in a large way when our mid-field controls supply. It is never really just one of them that wins us the game, rather all of them contributing to a common goal.

Don't know if I've made any sense... but I know what I mean!

 

[Southerntakeover]

I sometimes think Rutten is a little over rated because, as has been pointed out, it is the midfield cutting off supply and the loose man in defense that drops in front of the leading forward that is the main reason the forward is defeated rather than the FB.

Did you watch any of the games that Rutten didnt play in last year?

 

[Mismatched]

Did you watch any of the games that Rutten didnt play in last year?

Just quickly:

Vs St. Kilda (Loss) - Rutten leaves ground, Gheric molests Mcgregor.
Vs Fremantle (Loss) - Pavlich kicks 5, 3 Brownlow votes
Vs Essendon (Loss) - Lloyd kicks 5, destroys Stevens in the first quarter effectively putting us out of the match.
Vs Port (Win) - No Tredes so didn't matter.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Just quickly:

Vs St. Kilda (Loss) - Rutten leaves ground, Gheric molests Mcgregor.
Vs Fremantle (Loss) - Pavlich kicks 5, 3 Brownlow votes
Vs Essendon (Loss) - Lloyd kicks 5, destroys Stevens in the first quarter effectively putting us out of the match.
Vs Port (Win) - No Tredes so didn't matter.

Exactly.

I think that might just disprove the 'its the defensive system' theory.

 

[ruscy002]

I just think Bock is better suited to play on Fev... and in all honesty, if we don't control the midfield, neither Bock nor Rutten would stop him. Really thinking about what I've written it appears that I under-value the FB role completely so perhaps it is more accurate for me to say the position of FB is over-rated, regardless of who plays there? I know Rutten plays a pivotal role in our back 6 - one that we could not do without. But I also completely believe that our defense is so successful because they work together to achieve the goal and this is aided in a large way when our mid-field controls supply. It is never really just one of them that wins us the game, rather all of them contributing to a common goal.

Don't know if I've made any sense... but I know what I mean!

You're right in the sense that the 18 players on the field are required to win a game of footy, but you need individuals with specific skill sets to perform specific roles. For a full back, Rutten has all bases covered. Sure he might get exposed by players on a lead, but that's footy. The "leading forward" role wouldn't be employed if it wasn't effective.

Don't know how you can say the FB role is over rated...all the midfield pressure and defensive teamwork wont help if you have Aaron Keating at full back...

 

[beartoo]

I think Rutten will surprise a few of you on Saturday. He's coming into some form. 18 possessions against Hall last week and made him look second-rate. I don't buy the theory that Hall's personal problems stopped him getting more than a couple of possessions. Truck was seriously good.

 

[Jars458]

Anyone know how the reverse Coleman is going?

Fev kicked 6 on Harris/Lake and Buddy kicked 4 on the World's Greatest FB. Truck must be in front???

Mackie started on Buddy and another of the goals was from a free down ground and 50 I think so only two of them were actually kicked on Scarlett.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

On a perfectly timed lead by a forward to a perfectly weighted pass there is nothing you can do unfortunately as a defender and anyone who has played any decent level of footy will understand this. If the Crows block Fevs space, unlike the exhibition game where it was left open, Im sure Truck will do a sterling job like he always does. Apart from Franklin, I have faith in Truck to beat any forward in the AFL

 

[ruscy002]

Mackie started on Buddy and another of the goals was from a free down ground and 50 I think so only two of them were actually kicked on Scarlett.

Yeah, that reverse Coleman isn't so easy to assess...

 

[Crow-mo]

has anyone stopped to think that before declaring Fevola such an impossible mission, that it might actually be useful to look at the records?

Since 2004... (prior to 2004, he kicked 2 goals in 3 games against Adelaide)

Round 11, 2004 - 7 goals
Round 10, 2005 - 4 goals
Round 9, 2006 - 2 goals
round 9, 2007 - 2 goals
round 6, 2008 - 1 goal

16 goals in 5 games, is not a bad tally for him, nor is a disasterous for us. why is there so much negativity that Truck can't handle him?

of course I did mention that Rutten didn't play in the 2004 game didn't I?

 

[crowsup]

has anyone stopped to think that before declaring Fevola such an impossible mission, that it might actually be useful to look at the records?

Since 2004... (prior to 2004, he kicked 2 goals in 3 games against Adelaide)

Round 11, 2004 - 7 goals
Round 10, 2005 - 4 goals
Round 9, 2006 - 2 goals
round 9, 2007 - 2 goals
round 6, 2008 - 1 goal

16 goals in 5 games, is not a bad tally for him, nor is a disasterous for us. why is there so much negativity that Truck can't handle him?

of course I did mention that Rutten didn't play in the 2004 game didn't I?

Imo you would be the most exasperating poster on this board. You do nothing (mostly) but criticize most other posters' views, without justifying your own diverse opinions. But, every now and then, you redeem yourself ( at least in my eyes) with a real golden post like the above.
I especially like the lack of negativity in the balded sentence.

 

[Crow-mo]

Imo you would be the most exasperating poster on this board. You do nothing (mostly) but criticize most other posters' views, without justifying your own diverse opinions. But, every now and then, you redeem yourself ( at least in my eyes) with a real golden post like the above.
I especially like the lack of negativity in the balded sentence.

days like this make it all seem worthwhile.

 

[redandblack]

If he went back to the SANFL he would have to ruck all game, it would be a waste if he played forward for West.

Of course, it wouldn't be if we could have Porplyzia, Edwards and Rutten back, please.

Or perhaps Cooney, Welsh, Tuck, Slattery, Eagleton, Hartlett, Tiller, Waters, Schammer, etc, etc.

(A bit too late for Rehn, Modra and Ricciuto.)

 

[ruscy002]

Of course, it wouldn't be if we could have Porplyzia, Edwards and Rutten back, please.

Or perhaps Cooney, Welsh, Tuck, Slattery, Eagleton, Hartlett, Tiller, Waters, Schammer, etc, etc.

(A bit too late for Rehn, Modra and Ricciuto.)

Nah, reckon they'd all get a crack at the moment