Which club with a long premierhip drought be next to win a flag ?

[NQTIGER]

In all fairness those stats are skewed towards the 22 lining up each week rather than overall age of the list. Doesnt mean it really means anything but just sayin'.

Also I would have thought our performance over the last 30 years just shades the Tigers considering they have only made finals twice in that time. Hell even Fitzroy is more successful than Richmond over the last 30 years .

You obviosly have the facts to prove your assertion that melbourne is the better performed side in the last thirty years, would you like the ACTUAL numbers to support your theory?

No....didnt think so.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

It's like everyone thinks there list WILL win a flag, and it's just a matter of when! You can't just think the list you got will eventually grab you a flag, that ridiculous. It's like you guys actually think your certainties to win it with your lists. You might end up like the saints, so close yet so far, back to the rebuilding stage. Not saying you won't just saying don't be disappointed if it's not this list that wins your next flag.

And before you ask, I do feel the same about my team, We may or may not win one, but like each club will come close. You can't just we will win one with our list.

Very good point. Two years ago the Dogs and Saints were "closer" to a flag, but they missed. Now apparently Richmond and Melbourne are "closer". The question should be "will any of these clubs win a flag in the next five years?". Trying to predict anything beyond that is just stupid.

Trust a Tigers supporter to misrepresent the facts!

That's a best 22 average age and, as I showed in that Craig thread, Melbourne do have a younger overall list than Richmond.

I couldn't be bothered taking months of birth into account but if you average the years of birth of both lists they work out to be:

Richmond: 1988.03
Melbourne: 1988.24

So Melbourne's list is on average 2.5 months younger. God there are some irrelevent bullshit arguments on this site.

FWIW every club describes themself as "young" but really GC, Rich and Melb are the only ones that can IMO.

 

[MaddAdam]

You're big on history revision aren't you.

First person to mention North in this thread - SLF.

I listed which teams were in what windows.

I then explained why I thought of all the "drought" teams Richmond was closest but that they were in the same window group as North I thought North were ahead.

Then you came on sooking.

I deleted some posts as I realised I'd been sucked into your trolling.

Play on.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I couldn't be bothered taking months of birth into account but if you average the years of birth of both lists they work out to be:

Richmond: 1988.03
Melbourne: 1988.24

So Melbourne's list is on average 2.5 months younger. God there are some irrelevent bullshit arguments on this site.

FWIW every club describes themself as "young" but really GC, Rich and Melb are the only ones that can IMO.

I agree, in the Craig thread I said it was splitting hairs, but did you see the stats that NQT was responding to?

Even narrower, .07 of a year.

Irrelevant bullshit > 50% of BF.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You obviosly have the facts to prove your assertion that melbourne is the better performed side in the last thirty years, would you like the ACTUAL numbers to support your theory?

No....didnt think so.

Considering Richmond has only made finals three times in the last 30 years (including 1 GF & 2 top 4) and Melbourne has made finals 12 times in that time (including 2 GF's & 3 top 4) I think it's safe to say we have outperformed Richmond in that period. It's all pretty irrelevant though because as neither of us has won a flag in that time who gives a stuff?

 

[Reckoner Tiger]

St Kilda. Finished 6th this year with a club in turmoil, Grand Final loss agony, just about every star not performing, and arguably their best player out for the entire season.

Watch them be back with a vengeance next year. Write them off at your own peril.

 

[MR]

Trengove, Gysberts, McKenzie, Grimes, Moloney.

All potential/star quality midfielders. Jack Viney oming as well as two more youngsters in the 2012 draft.

Where are Richmond's AA quality FB and possible AA quality CHB?

Trengove, Gysberys, McKenzie, Grimes and Moloney do not even begin to compare to Martin, Cotchin, Foley, Deledio and Tuck. If you really do believe so, then write a poll on the polls board and see who has the better midfield.

Even with Viney, the class is still in our favour.

Mate, we have Alex Rance who soon will be AA quality. He has completely dominated throughout this year against many opponents. Took Watts to the cleaners last time we versed you to.

Isn't your CHB Jarred Rivers? Ohk, definitely 'possible' AA quality. I think it was just by the width of my pinky that he missed out on a nomination this year. Boy, I think that the AA panel was a bit sour putting Reid ahead of him!

 

[Tulip]

Trengove, Gysberys, McKenzie, Grimes and Moloney do not even begin to compare to Martin, Cotchin, Foley, Deledio and Tuck. If you really do believe so, then write a poll on the polls board and see who has the better midfield.

Even with Viney, the class is still in our favour.

Mate, we have Alex Rance who soon will be AA quality. He has completely dominated throughout this year against many opponents. Took Watts to the cleaners last time we versed you to.

Isn't your CHB Jarred Rivers? Ohk, definitely 'possible' AA quality. I think it was just by the width of my pinky that he missed out on a nomination this year. Boy, I think that the AA panel was a bit sour putting Reid ahead of him!

First of all, they may not be quite as good, but they certainly do begin to compare to your 5 who are, undoubtedly, class.

Rance has gone from toilet to quality, but nowhere near AA quality. I still remember Richmond fans complaining about how he 'does nothing' after we cleaned you up in Rd. 14. Clearly a very good final month clears the memory

No, I'm not talking about Rivers but Garland, rather. Been killed with injury but you'll find most objective football watchers rate him highly. Higher than Rance, definetely. Same with Rivers actually.

 

[Wallaby]

I couldn't be bothered taking months of birth into account but if you average the years of birth of both lists they work out to be:

Richmond: 1988.03
Melbourne: 1988.24

So Melbourne's list is on average 2.5 months younger. God there are some irrelevent bullshit arguments on this site.

FWIW every club describes themself as "young" but really GC, Rich and Melb are the only ones that can IMO.

One of the reasons poor clubs have young lists is that they don't have many players good enough to play 2-300 games and thus have a long (and therefore old) career. There's no point putting 200 games into a player if they're not much good.

You bring the young kids in, try 'em out, if it doesn't get you a flag, move 'em on.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Trengove, Gysberys, McKenzie, Grimes and Moloney do not even begin to compare to Martin, Cotchin, Foley, Deledio and Tuck. If you really do believe so, then write a poll on the polls board and see who has the better midfield.

Even with Viney, the class is still in our favour.

Mate, we have Alex Rance who soon will be AA quality. He has completely dominated throughout this year against many opponents. Took Watts to the cleaners last time we versed you to.

Isn't your CHB Jarred Rivers? Ohk, definitely 'possible' AA quality. I think it was just by the width of my pinky that he missed out on a nomination this year. Boy, I think that the AA panel was a bit sour putting Reid ahead of him!

That first statement, wowee.

Colin Garland is our CHB.

And Frawley beats Reiwoldt every time he plays on him, what's your point?.. although Frawley is an AA quality FB.

I do like Rance though.

 

[Tulip]

You obviosly have the facts to prove your assertion that melbourne is the better performed side in the last thirty years, would you like the ACTUAL numbers to support your theory?

No....didnt think so.

The numbers have been put up. But how can you honestly claim that you've been better performed than anybody in the last 30 years.

I've always admired Richmond fans for their resilience, but now I'm just questioning where they're deluded?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Foley and Tuck are OK but I wouldn't be putting them forward as proof of some superstar midfield. At the moment you guys have Cotchin, Martin, Deledio. We have Trengove, Sylvia, Moloney. Our young kids have expectations on them but haven't shown much yet other than glimpses maybe with the exception of McKenzie who is very much a "blue collar" midfielder. Both teams should improve and be challenging for finals next year and it will be great to see them both up there but beyond that it's just guessing games.

I would rate Richmond slightly ahead in midfield, and they have the better forward line while Melbourne has the better backline. Richmond could do with another tall forward option though (Vickery?) while Melbourne could do with another tall defender (McDonald?).

 

[Eth]

I listed which teams were in what windows.

You listed something irrelevant to the thread.

Keep your opinions on North Melbourne where they belong - not here.

 

[MaddAdam]

You listed something irrelevant to the thread.

Keep your opinions on North Melbourne where they belong - not here.

Ok.

I will stay on topic. Teams like Melbourne in premiership droughts. That haven't won flags for decades. Since before decimal currency was introduced.

And do I think Melbourne will be the first of the drought teams to win a flag?

No a snowball's chance in hell: overrated list, poor culture, gone backwards in the last year.

As I said above in my detailed post that caused tears among some, I think Richmond are best placed of those teams. In about four - six years.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Ok.

I will stay on topic. Teams like Melbourne in premiership droughts. That haven't won flags for decades. Since before decimal currency was introduced.

And do I think Melbourne will be the first of the drought teams to win a flag?

No a snowball's chance in hell: overrated list, poor culture, gone backwards in the last year.

As I said above in my detailed post that caused tears among some, I think Richmond are best placed of those teams. In about four - six years.

You really do not deserve the abuse you're copping in this thread. I hope you address the mods about it.

I felt you're opinion was well balanced and not too outlandish, unfortunately a selected few are pretending that the North Melbourne name dropping is what frustrates them, when in truth it's the very real ideology that their club is engulfed in a losing culture, which most likely will have long term ramifications.

 

[Tulip]

CNB,if he hadn't complimented your club and dissed ours, you'd think the same. That post, to SLF/DoP's credit, was on topic for the first time.

North are not a particularly proud or feared club, neither are Richmond or Melbourne, so a 12 year 'drought' in what will be an 18 team competition is not unexpected.

 

[MaddAdam]

You really do not deserve the abuse you're copping in this thread. I hope you address the mods about it.

I felt you're opinion was well balanced and not too outlandish, unfortunately a selected few are pretending that the North Melbourne name dropping is what frustrates them, when in truth it's the very real ideology that their club is engulfed in a losing culture, which most likely will have long term ramifications.

My favourite bit is when they accuse us having an inferiority complex because we have a premiership player in our team.

I think Hardwick is exactly the right guy for you lot.

I also like the style of footy you play: aggressive, willing to take a chance. And the kid Martin is just rolled gold.

If Maric comes over and comes in nicely, would be another piece of the puzzle for you.

 

[royals1922]

Is it within the parameters of the debate to say - none of them.

The team that may go closest is Fremantle but the answer may be none of them.

In a few years we will have free agency and all the teams named, excluding possibly Fremantle, will be teams that are more likely to lose players in free agency than gain them.

In a few years, a player like Trengrove, tired of not playing finals may say, I've got my money, I'll move on to someone else and their club will get nothing.

The interstate clubs always will have the go home factor ( as with Clark this year) to help them so the years preceding free agency are the best years for those clubs.

I reckon come free agency clubs like NM with a recent premiership, may also lose good players to free agency or forced swaps.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

You really do not deserve the abuse you're copping in this thread. I hope you address the mods about it.

I felt you're opinion was well balanced and not too outlandish, unfortunately a selected few are pretending that the North Melbourne name dropping is what frustrates them, when in truth it's the very real ideology that their club is engulfed in a losing culture, which most likely will have long term ramifications.

Firstly, really?

Quick, call the mods because there is a heated difference of opinion on BigFooty!!



And secondly, statements like the bolded really make me question your credibility as a poster.

It's idle, misappropriated speculation.

I'd encourage all Melbourne supporters to stay out of this thread.

If you're confident in the clubs direction you shouldn't have to validate it to a group of people who, let's be honest, firstly; have no idea what impacts a footy clubs 'culture' and secondly; are getting involved in some 'one-uppance' for the sake of their own ego's.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Is it within the parameters of the debate to say - none of them.

The team that may go closest is Fremantle but the answer may be none of them.

In a few years we will have free agency and all the teams named, excluding possibly Fremantle, will be teams that are more likely to lose players in free agency than gain them.

In a few years, a player like TrengRove, tired of not playing finals may say, I've got my money, I'll move on to someone else and their club will get nothing.

The interstate clubs always will have the go home factor ( as with Clark this year) to help them so the years preceding free agency are the best years for those clubs.

I reckon come free agency clubs like NM with a recent premiership, may also lose good players to free agency or forced swaps.

No.

No!!!

 

[heh]

This may sound stupid but I get the feeling Melbourne players just expect to become a great team. All because of the high draft picks and youth around the place. They don't seem like a team willing to put in 100% every game and sort of have the mentality that it'll happen they just have to wait for it to click.

This for me.

May seem a bit silly, but I read Melbourne as lacking heart, they are all right when things are going their way, but don't seem to be able to rally when it is not.
I don't know if I accept this year's excuse of not wanting to play for their coach as an excuse for their big losses.
To me that is a large reflection on the players.

I would think Tigers and Freo have a chance before Melbourne.
Which is disappointing, as I'd really like to see the Dees get up. I just can't see it without some radical changes.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

My favourite bit is when they accuse us having an inferiority complex because we have a premiership player in our team.

I think Hardwick is exactly the right guy for you lot.

I also like the style of footy you play: aggressive, willing to take a chance. And the kid Martin is just rolled gold.

If Maric comes over and comes in nicely, would be another piece of the puzzle for you.

That was the comment that came to mind first, it's only a few posters, who do need to be reminded that Richmond+North Melbourne have won 9 premierships since the last time Melbourne won 1.

For the record I do think all three teams will have a nice window within the next 3-8 years, I'm honestly expecting 2/3 of the clubs to win a premiership by 2020.

High Flying Flag - We had HyperDonk call Jack Riewoldt's 2010 season 'decent' and that he is an 'okay' player. Believe me, Daw didn't cross the line, he simply stated an unpopular opinion and got slagged for it from every corner.

I'd like to see some Melbourne supporters give a strong opinion as to why Melbourne will win a premiership soon, rather than talk utter garbage that a poster and his entire football club has an inferiority complex.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I certainly agree that it appears Bailey let a lot of the group get too comfortable this year Edie, much too comfortable.

I wouldn't say we 'lack heart', we have a large number of guys who won't give up.

But we haven't had the strong leadership to guide us through troubling periods this season, this is what has really let us down.

A strong culture is bred from good leadership.

As for CNB; Fine I'll explain... but I'm not going to defend any of these statements, they are fair and reasonable.

Why Melbourne could be coming up to a period of sustained competitive performance (top 4)... By ThePuppetMaster.

1. We have the makings of a very competitive midfield; Sylvia, Trengove, Moloney, Gysberts, Grimes, McKenzie, Viney, Petterd and Blease (and maybe even Morton if he grows a pair) will be a very competitive group when they are up and running.

2. Our back six is pretty much set; Garland and Frawley as the talls; Rivers as the third man... Tom McDonald had arguably the best KPD debut of any of our KPD's (including Frawley back in 07), he will be a very solid customer for us. We have a lot of small options; Strauss, Bennell (who both did excellent shut down roles, they just need to get some more confidence runnning off their men), Bartram, Macdonald, Tapscott, Grimes, Bail, Jones and Nicholson can all play solid defensive roles.

3. Our forwardline is relatively well set in terms of prospects; Watts and Cook being the outstanding ones, both will take time (although Watts will be ready in a year or so) but both compliment each other nicely. We have an abundance of 3rd talls, with Howe and Petterd being the ones with class.

4. We have a lot of talent in reserve and a lot of diverse talent, our recruiters can pretty comfortably go out and recruit for needs.

What we really need are a clearly defined gameplan, a lot more team discipline, a much larger fitness base and a better attitude.

It all comes down to development for Melbourne, we get the best out of the majority of our list and we'll do well.

Which is one of the reasons I'm pretty excited about our new coaching structures.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You really do not deserve the abuse you're copping in this thread. I hope you address the mods about it.

I felt you're opinion was well balanced and not too outlandish, unfortunately a selected few are pretending that the North Melbourne name dropping is what frustrates them, when in truth it's the very real ideology that their club is engulfed in a losing culture, which most likely will have long term ramifications.

Mate I don't think people in glass houses should be throwing stones. Fitzory has made more finals than your mob in the last 30 years.

I'd like to see some Melbourne supporters give a strong opinion as to why Melbourne will win a premiership soon, rather than talk utter garbage that a poster and his entire football club has an inferiority complex.

How can you give a strong opinion as to why we will win a premiership soon? It's all just speculation, anyone could come up with any argument and no-one could say they are wrong.

May seem a bit silly, but I read Melbourne as lacking heart, they are all right when things are going their way, but don't seem to be able to rally when it is not.
I don't know if I accept this year's excuse of not wanting to play for their coach as an excuse for their big losses.
To me that is a large reflection on the players.

I would think Tigers and Freo have a chance before Melbourne.
Which is disappointing, as I'd really like to see the Dees get up. I just can't see it without some radical changes.

I agree that some of our players lack a bit of ticker and go to water too easily once the opposition turns up the heat. This is one of my bug bears and has been pissing me off for a long time, since the Daniher days. Guys like Yze, White, Bruce etc could look a million bucks when things went their way but fell apart in big games when the heat was on. I am hoping guys like Neeld & Craig can start to turn this around and I think it starts on the pre-season training track.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

I certainly agree that it appears Bailey let a lot of the group get too comfortable this year, much too comfortable.

I wouldn't say we 'lack heart', we have a large number of guys who won't give up.

But we haven't had the strong leadership to guide us through troubling periods this season, this is what has really let us down.

A strong culture is bred from good leadership.

There we go PuppetMaster, we are now talking


James McDonald was that leadership that you guys let slip, it was disappointing, but it's not the end of the world.

That loss against Geelong was big champ, and I'll be honest with you. It kills the confidence of your entire playing group, I spoke with Kane Johnson a few years ago and asked him about our loss against Geelong in 2006, he told me some players never recovered from that.

Do not underestimate what confidence can do to a playing group, Melbourne were on the wrong track for years.

Whilst saying that, Neeld is a very respected and from what I've heard, intimidating presence. I have strong faith in this guys ability to make your kids men.

He needs to have solid people working around him and I still have a few question marks over some of your appointments and extensions (Royal ROYAL ROYAL).

Your playing group is full of talent, those two compensation picks may work out better than Scully and your club is in a great position for sustained success.

It's still a very real possibility that your losing culture could have long term ramifications, it's not a sealed statement, it's just a possibility.

Melbourne right now, is a flip of a coin, could be really bad or could be really great.

I do hope Richmond/Melbourne begin the next big rivalry (along with NM too) I want to see the ladder reverse, it's good for the competition, so best of luck.