Which players have we Overated/underated

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Hawthorn4ever

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Oct 5, 2004
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Roughie- overated. Has many deficiencies in his game... is ideal to play a true roaming CHF and take the pack marks but has no tank to play CHF hence can only play one position.. no enough agression.. obviously goal kicking.
He is continually talked up as this potential 100 goal kicker.. well experts and coaches... we dont need another 100 goals per year goal player... we have one in BUDDY FRANKLIN.. and hes done it before.... What we need is a CHF with grunt.
 
Don't agree with that at all!

The only thing disappointing about Roughead this year was his goal kicking. And that was starting to improve in the last couple of games. His tackling pressure and second and third efforts were pretty good actually. As for only be able to play in one position, he can ruck and play CHB. Not bad for someone who we only need to play FF!

I think to kick 49 goals in a season where your kicking has been wayward in a team with that forward line setup is actually not too bad.

To quote the List Assessment article on AFL.com:
"Jarryd Roughead: Copped some stick for inaccuracy in front of goal but he finished the home-and-away season with 49 goals. How many clubs would love to have their second tall forward option capable of that?"
 

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Your bottom 5 or 6 every week.

Cats would give anything for a forward as good as Roughie. Arguably Pies too. And he's no worse a converter than Mooney or Cloke.

Exactly right. The way some of our supporters gun for Roughie is just plain ridiculous, and I'm growing a little tired of the whole thing.
 
Starting with:
Roughie- overated. Has many deficiencies in his game... is ideal to play a true roaming CHF and take the pack marks but has no tank to play CHF hence can only play one position.. no enough agression.. obviously goal kicking.
He is continually talked up as this potential 100 goal kicker.. well experts and coaches... we dont need another 100 goals per year goal player... we have one in BUDDY FRANKLIN.. and hes done it before.... What we need is a CHF with grunt.

Mate, you are in cuckoo land

'we dont need another 100 goal per year player'. What BS. The year that budd kicked 100+ and roughy kicked about 85, we won the flag. Am I missing something here ?

He clearly has some issues with fragility in front of goal, and like many of our stars, does tend to go missing, but to single him out this week demonstrates your complete lack of insight.

'has no tank to play CHF'... what tank are you talking about ? He does as much running and applies as much defensive pressure as any of our forwards bar Cyril

I understand that there needs to be a great deal of open discussion and soul searching this week, but to toss the baby (albeit a ranga.) out with the bathwater is ludicrous. As frankly, is your post :thumbsdown:
 
Don't agree with that at all!

The only thing disappointing about Roughead this year was his goal kicking. And that was starting to improve in the last couple of games. His tackling pressure and second and third efforts were pretty good actually. As for only be able to play in one position, he can ruck and play CHB. Not bad for someone who we only need to play FF!

I think to kick 49 goals in a season where your kicking has been wayward in a team with that forward line setup is actually not too bad.

To quote the List Assessment article on AFL.com:
"Jarryd Roughead: Copped some stick for inaccuracy in front of goal but he finished the home-and-away season with 49 goals. How many clubs would love to have their second tall forward option capable of that?"


This!!!

People calling for Roughead to be dropped, or to be moved to CHB, please read this post. His efforts in the foward line have not dropped off. I pay close attention to big Rough after the constant criticism he cops on here. He still chases, tackles, pressures defenders. The only thing he has had trouble with was converting his opportunities, and even then he kicked 49 goals.
 
Starting with:
Roughie- overated. Has many deficiencies in his game... is ideal to play a true roaming CHF and take the pack marks but has no tank to play CHF hence can only play one position.. no enough agression.. obviously goal kicking.
He is continually talked up as this potential 100 goal kicker.. well experts and coaches... we dont need another 100 goals per year goal player... we have one in BUDDY FRANKLIN.. and hes done it before.... What we need is a CHF with grunt.

It has nothing to do with his ability, its the way they are coached. We were way to reliant on Buddy this year and the opposition knew it. Rough is just doing what he has been told.

So I think Barker is at fault here.
 
I think Roughie is underated(or not meeting expectations) by some of our own supporters. Some expect him to be Franklins twin, which is never going to happen. Roughie is still a big kid that lacks confidence and I think he just hasn't realized what he is capable of.
On the flip side, Brown is overated by our own supporters. Don't get me wrong, great player but he is just a soldier no more no less. Stratton holds more value to our back line in his first year. Croad was better by a long margin and we have many others who run the ball out better. Hard nut of the back six but that does not put goals on the scoreboard. Some here call him the 'heart and soul" but when he leaves for the coast you will find it won't make much of a difference to our back six or our defensive forwards.
 
You guy's are seriously delusional....Roughie is what 6ft 4?, he never cannons into packs, is soft and lazy...on the weekend all he did was put up his hand 'kick it to me' crap....then scores goals in junk time when he could of got us back in the game at 1/2 time...we signed him for 4yrs and he has done SFA since 08, so call it harsh or what-ever but he is a lazy bastard who needs to pull the finger out of his arse :thumbsdown:
 
Overated;

Guerra
Gilham
Birchall
Lewis
Ellis
Young
Osborne
Ladson
There is no way known that Young is overrated. He's an absolute gun, and showed it coming back from an incredibly bad injury last year. He showed more in the last 4 games this year than many other players in our team.
 
It's not an issue of anyone being over rated or under rated, just been an inconsistent year. Osborne for example, one game will be at his running down spectacular goals best, then will be like he was at the Freo game, non existent.

Ladson has always been underrated though Whitecross wasn't bad but didn't show why he was ahead of Laddo.
 

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There is no way known that Young is overrated. He's an absolute gun, and showed it coming back from an incredibly bad injury last year. He showed more in the last 4 games this year than many other players in our team.

He is important. Vital infact. However he is very overated.

17 matches avergaing 12.9 possesions.

When he plays well, we generally win, however we don't win often enough. Needs to become more consistent.
 
Over rated:
Guerra
Ladson
Bateman (perhaps not overrated, but is very much on decline)
Dowler
Taylor
JKT
Suckling
Morton
Moss
The cluster

Under rated:
Muston's goal kick ability
Hodge and ellis switching diets
Schoenmakers on the roughy/lewis/buddy development scheme (should just play him into form)
 
It has nothing to do with his ability, its the way they are coached. We were way to reliant on Buddy this year and the opposition knew it. Rough is just doing what he has been told.

So I think Barker is at fault here.

This ^^^^^^

But the entire coaching team need to have a good rethink about the abysmal style of play that is employed. Even when we were winning the whole thing looked out of whack.

We need a Forward Structure that has more than one option to guys kicking it short or long, not this BS where Buddy and Roughie are constantly going up for the same ball!!!
 
He is important. Vital infact. However he is very overated.

17 matches avergaing 12.9 possesions.

When he plays well, we generally win, however we don't win often enough. Needs to become more consistent.

Is the problem Young or getting the ball to Young? The outside midfielders tend to rely heavily on the team winning and moving the ball quickly. We just haven't done that on a consistent basis this year.

No surprise he had a major influence in the second half against the Pies, but really no influence on Saturday.

It would be nice for the outside mids to earn their own footy too, but Young's form probably relies more on our inside guys getting the footy to him, and our game plan being a little more attacking (was going to use offensive there, but our game plan probably is pretty offensive at times :D), rather than defensive.
 
Over rated:
Guerra
Ladson
Bateman (perhaps not overrated, but is very much on decline)
Dowler
Taylor
JKT
Suckling
Morton
Moss
The cluster

Under rated:
Muston's goal kick ability
Hodge and ellis switching diets
Schoenmakers on the roughy/lewis/buddy development scheme (should just play him into form)


Dowler couldnt be rated any lower. Most posters on the board wouldnt even wipe their boots on him for fear of being dirtier.

Bowing out like this will give us a good chance to evaluate our list and make some hard calls. A balance between some of the idea's being thrown around.

It will be great to see Lilse, Shiels and Savage with another preseason under their belts. Hopefully they can move up the pecking order, but to do so the hard calls will have to be made.
 
Rated right:
- Hodge
- Sewell
- Bateman
- Rough
- Franko
- Rioli
- Ladson
- Murphy
- Schoey
- Burgers
- ...

Over-rated:
- Gilham
- Birchall
- Ellis

- Osborne
- Gibson
- Muston
- ...

Under-rated:
- Whitecross
- Hooper
- Mitchell
- Lewis
- Taylor
- ...

Agree with a lot of them, but it was no coincidence that we could not get the ball out of our backline without Birch, and Ellis has starred since moving to half forward. He is NOT a half backline/winger no matter how much he plays there.

Also was really pleased with Gibsons first year, some of his contests are terrific.
 
Dowler couldnt be rated any lower. Most posters on the board wouldnt even wipe their boots on him for fear of being dirtier.

Bowing out like this will give us a good chance to evaluate our list and make some hard calls. A balance between some of the idea's being thrown around.

It will be great to see Lilse, Shiels and Savage with another preseason under their belts. Hopefully they can move up the pecking order, but to do so the hard calls will have to be made.

From what I have read Lisle, Shiels and Savage have been great in the past 2 months in the VFL. We will be better when these guys and Schoenmakers, Whitecross, and Muston are presented greater opportunity. The emergence of this group will leave the likes of Murphy, Gilham, Guerra, Ladson and Osborne as depth players.

I know there were a few players down on Saturday but Gilham, Murphy and Guerra made some terrible errors and have leaked goals all year. If one was to be honest with our list assessments none of those three would get a game at Geelong, St Kilda, or Collingwood. We need to address this with selecting better skilled, better decision makers and fast movers to complement Gibson, Stratton and Birchall. I believe the answer is Ellis as the general down back replacing Guerra, Whitecross to replace Murphy and Lisle or Schoenmakers to replace Gilham.
 
for those who think Young is overrated why then did opposition sides identify late in the season he was one of the main men to tag in the side inclusive of Hodge, burgoyne, rioli and Mitchell ? fremantle put their best stopper in Crowley on him.
Where he needs to develop to the next step as a player and enjoy the cudos is to be able to cope with the tags which at this stage he cannot do so yes he is inconsistent but if he gets 20-25 possessions we win period.

also how can anyone on this board think gibson is overrated- he was close to our best player on saturday- stopped pavlich from having an influence- Pav was gifted 2 goals that wernt gibsons fault, one was a howler from guerra.
 
for those who think Young is overrated why then did opposition sides identify late in the season he was one of the main men to tag in the side inclusive of Hodge, burgoyne, rioli and Mitchell ? fremantle put their best stopper in Crowley on him.
Where he needs to develop to the next step as a player and enjoy the cudos is to be able to cope with the tags which at this stage he cannot do so yes he is inconsistent but if he gets 20-25 possessions we win period.

also how can anyone on this board think gibson is overrated- he was close to our best player on saturday- stopped pavlich from having an influence- Pav was gifted 2 goals that wernt gibsons fault, one was a howler from guerra.
People seem to have mistaken the words Importance & Overated.

Young is both of those things.
 
Agree with a lot of them, but it was no coincidence that we could not get the ball out of our backline without Birch, and Ellis has starred since moving to half forward. He is NOT a half backline/winger no matter how much he plays there.

Also was really pleased with Gibsons first year, some of his contests are terrific.

I thought Birchall was average this year. He seems to have put on some weight in the gym and this really slowed him down. He plays very short for a guy his height too and is not stella at ground level. He was repeatedly caught on his right side and ended up turning the ball over, resulting in several opposition goals. Has been average 2 years in a row for mine and is living off his first few seasons.

I don't mind Ellis, but for mine, his limitations are really restricting his progress. Has bucket loads of courage, seems to play better in the bigger games and is a very smart footballer. The reality is though that he doesn't have the pace to be a wingman or half back and doesn't have the body to regularly compete at stoppages. Am also not convinced he's a real half forward. Whilst he's smart around goals, he's not great in the air, gets knocked off the ball one-on-one and doesn't have the pace to apply much forward pressure. Needs a huge pre-season to add some weight improve his power and running. originally we all thought he'd be the next Dal Santo. The gap between the two is as wide as it's ever been, for mine.

Gibson is best as a third tall or on the smaller key forwards, such as Pav. However, we needed a big key defender and picked him instead, trading a second and third round pick. Not his fault. The fact that people keep talking about Tarrant is testament to this. I thought Gibson was ok, but he didn't solve our problem and just improved the quality of our army of third talls. He was fifth in North's B&F last year and won't get close to this on ours. Assume the club thought Gilham and Schoey would hold down the key position spots, Birch and Gibbo the medium spots and Goo, Laddo, X, Murphy and co raffle the last two.

Just an opinion...
 

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Which players have we Overated/underated

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