Which players have we Overated/underated

[BlackByrd]

I think Taylor is unfairly criticised on this board, sure he had a shocking season but i put that mainly down to his foot/ankle issue which he is still suffering from. I'd give him one more season, i think he's got something to prove.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Oh I get it, it's another let's kick the shit our of Roughead thread, even when he's our best forward during the game, and we try to make him a play in a structure that doesn't suit him, but overlook anything that Franklin does wrong.

Carry on.

 

[The Kipster]

Oh I get it, it's another let's kick the shit our of Roughead thread, even when he's our best forward during the game, and we try to make him a play in a structure that doesn't suit him, but overlook anything that Franklin does wrong.

Carry on.

GALON, come on...he has been ordinary since 2008, last weekend all he did was put up his hand to say "kick it to me"...he doesn't want the ball enough and is lazy....even if your structures are up the shit (which we know they are) and you have been signed for 4yrs on big big $$$$ then why wouldn't you give it your all regardless?

he has been very very poor and scoring goals in junk time is not what we pay him highly for....he did the same at Subi against the Eagles...big deal we want our players of his ilk to win us games when it counts...

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Overated

Josh Gibson - really not sure why you picked him up. The fact that you are now talking about getting Tarrant demonstrates this. Though I notice even on this thread the line about him finishing fifth in our B+F in an injury shattered year where we finished near the bottom and lost a coach proving anything making an appearance. I hope to God that wasn't a factor.

Cyril Rioli - Rioli has talent to burn and would walk into any side in the league. But Hawthorn, with a complicit media, have talked him so much that nobody could meet the expectations. I realise he came back from injury this year and I saw him do some very good things but the fact is he doesn't deliver enough and certainly not at the level you lot expect. Manage you rexpectations on Cyril and you'll get better results.

Ryan Schoenmakers - Should have gone at 3 in his draft according to one good judge. Stratton has been far better. Schoenmakers is the backline version of Dowler/Muston etc.

Underrated

Jarryd Roughead - Is rapidly gaining on Daniel Wells as the most harshly judged and unfairly maligned player in the league. Kicked more than most team leading scores. Is still young. Is almost certainly being given instructions that frustrate the fans

Brad Sewell - I know you will say you love Sewell and know how much of a gun he is but I don't think you appreciate just how critically important he is. Is one behind Hodge in importance for you. I take that using the scale of: 'Which Hawthorn players am I happiest to hear are missing when we play them". Seriously, I'm more releived to hear Sewell is out when you play you than Franklin/Rioli etc.

 

[IBleedBrownNGold]

Oh I get it, it's another let's kick the shit our of Roughead thread, even when he's our best forward during the game, and we try to make him a play in a structure that doesn't suit him, but overlook anything that Franklin does wrong.

Carry on.

Spot on Galon. The Rough one has a bad year for kicking accuracy and people jump on him. He still had a good year in relative terms as a forward (goals kicked for the year), but will be so much better when he sorts things out with that little man inside his head.

This will hopefully be assisted by a better forwards setup next season. (My number one wish for 2011! )

 

[killerspud]

Sorry Kip but Galon is 100% right - Roughie played his guts out, Buddy was pretty average. That's Alright - you can't be great every week. I guess what kills us is that when Buddy has a great game everything is on song whereas when Roughie has had a great game this year he hasn't converted on the scoreboard - the only thing he needs is goal kicking lessons (but then again so does Buddy)

The real issue is why there are moments this year when we have NO ONE in our forward 50.

In terms of who is overrated and underrated

I think Jordan Lewis should be an elite midfielder by now - for whatever reason he hasn't put everything together to become the gun he should be

Michael Osbourne went from dour backman to hard working defensive forward BUT has gone backwards - too often seduced by the chance of a flashy goal or huge mark, he lost his team focus and has become too selfish - I think Peterson and Hooper are better options going forward

I won't comment on Sewell as I thought he had an interrupted season with the preseason injury. I don't think his output was as good as he is capable of.

I think Grant Birchall is a player who could do much more - he is the same size and height as Sam Fisher at St Kilda yet I don't think he has much of a defensive side to his game (which is a bit of a problem seeing he is a defender). Maybe he needs to be re-invented as a wingman with the brief to not just link up but run forward and bang through goals from outside 50.

I think Xavier Ellis is a season away from becoming a superstar - he'll never be the flashiest player going around but I think once he builds his tank a bit moreI like the idea of him rotating through the midfield - only query is too often he looks back and sideways instead of looking forward (that goes to most of the team)

Maybe Brent Guerra is at that point where the game is passing him by - I think he gets caught too often and I find that his kick ins have lost the penetration of 2007-08. Our ability to get out of the defensive 50 after opponents kicked a point was not great.

We desperately need a Key defender and another hard running line breaking half back flanker if we are going to be competitive.

No one was more underrated this year than Wade Skipper - too small to beat the biggest and best ruckmen in the comp he gave everything in every game he played he was stoic. Renouf was also really competitive. Would love to see both of them in the team next year but playing alongside a great big ruckman - be it Max Bailey or someone like Jamie Charman. I think Renouf would murder most second string rucks in the comp while Skipper could do the same ruck/forward role that Leigh brown and Tom Hawkins do (and he'd be better)

I think Chance Bateman might be falling into the Guerra category - great player but on the decline - he could do the job on Stephen Hill and is going to struggle against the young speedsters coming through.

I think Tom Murphy has proven alot of people wrong - from his ordinary 2009 he has showed he was played out of position he isn't a 2nd or 3rd tall defender - he's a slightly taller than average small defender who can play on the likes of Leon Davis, Stephen Milne etc.

The players we most underrated LAST year were Ben McGlynn and Josh Kennedy - people wrote them off when they played one or two bad games - so we watched them leave and become awesome players at Sydney. We are now saying the game is all about contested footy and we let two players go who are really hard at it- I know they wanted out but really those are the guys we should have been building teams around.

I am fast losing faith in our list managers and coaching staff - we still have a load of talent but we need to inject more youth and pace into our side - we need to keep our top picks and hope some of those NSW scholarship players work out (speaking of which - how are the current players Michael Johnson and Will Sierakowsi going - anyone know)

This is fast becoming a rambling Grandpa Simpson style post so I'll finish up by saying it was a great effort to win 7 in a row and not so great to lose 6 - it would be better next year to start well and have greater consistency, belief and a new game plan that actually plays to our strengths

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

GALON, come on...he has been ordinary since 2008, last weekend all he did was put up his hand to say "kick it to me"...he doesn't want the ball enough and is lazy....even if your structures are up the shit (which we know they are) and you have been signed for 4yrs on big big $$$$ then why wouldn't you give it your all regardless?

he has been very very poor and scoring goals in junk time is not what we pay him highly for....he did the same at Subi against the Eagles...big deal we want our players of his ilk to win us games when it counts...

There's so much more that he's been up against this year, and most people don't and may not ever realise it.
Roughead is not lazy, as proven by the fact he finished #1 for contested marks, Goal assists, 1%ers for any forward at Hawthorn. If anything he's confused by where he should be and not confident enough to roam around as Franklin does.
Coupled by the fact that I've watched him closely at every chance this year, we've simply not played him in any sort of role that allowed him to play to his strengths as he did in 2008. Throwing him in the ruck only caused him to pick up a niggle that he then carried for much of the year.
He is a key forward, yet we asked him to run up the ground and drift back ala Franklin.
Why did we not put him in the square and ask him to lead to the ball?

Roughead has copped it all year from people who only look at the goal tally at the end of the game.


I've just had enough of people laying the boots into him. Sure he's not had a 2008 season, but nor did Buddy. Sure he missed some goals, but so did Buddy.

Sure Rough could do more, but so could've any number of players this year.

 

[bigbuddyboy]

overrated (removing myself from most bias);
guerra
gilham
bateman
birch
lewis
ozzy
laddo (not so much anymore)
ellis
our coaches (riding the 08 wave, and abusing the "injuries" excuse)

underrated;
....
mitch (not getting enough accolades after another very good year)
Skipper (by other supporters)
hooper
young (got the crowly tag on the weekend. I expect this a lot next year)

 

[Dragz]

Dane Swan is 26. He wasn't much before last year. Plenty of time for Lewis.

 

[cma6]

Stephen Gilham is easily our most over rated player.

We can not have Gilham, Birchall and Guerra all in our back line. They just can't defend.

Our midfield and forward lines look capable most of the time so we need to concentrate on sorting out our back half.

Stratton and Gibson can be effective in a role similar to O'Brien and Maxwell at Collingwood.

Could Skipper do the job down back? He has size and a big ticker. He also uses the ball well. If Bailey and Renouf are fit then I'd hate to see Skipper miss out. He's become a fan favourite in a very short time.

 

[cma6]

Roughead needs to watch St Kilda games all summer and make a decision - Do I want to be a Koschitzke or do I want to become a Reiwoldt?

He needs to build his tank over the next year or two and move to CHF and leave Franklin to do what he does.

 

[DannyJ]

There's so much more that he's been up against this year, and most people don't and may not ever realise it.
Roughead is not lazy, as proven by the fact he finished #1 for contested marks, Goal assists, 1%ers for any forward at Hawthorn. If anything he's confused by where he should be and not confident enough to roam around as Franklin does.
Coupled by the fact that I've watched him closely at every chance this year, we've simply not played him in any sort of role that allowed him to play to his strengths as he did in 2008. Throwing him in the ruck only caused him to pick up a niggle that he then carried for much of the year.
He is a key forward, yet we asked him to run up the ground and drift back ala Franklin.
Why did we not put him in the square and ask him to lead to the ball?

Roughead has copped it all year from people who only look at the goal tally at the end of the game.


I've just had enough of people laying the boots into him. Sure he's not had a 2008 season, but nor did Buddy. Sure he missed some goals, but so did Buddy.

Sure Rough could do more, but so could've any number of players this year.

I agree with this. Have backed Roughead all year and will continue to do so whilst he is 100% dedicated to the HFC

 

[ScottMaginness]

The players we most underrated LAST year were Ben McGlynn and Josh Kennedy - people wrote them off when they played one or two bad games - so we watched them leave and become awesome players at Sydney. We are now saying the game is all about contested footy and we let two players go who are really hard at it- I know they wanted out but really those are the guys we should have been building teams around.

I couldn't believe that Hawthorn let Kennedy go. He's surpassed Sewell as an inside player who can win his own ball and dish it out from what I've seen this year and he hits a target pretty regularly.

Lewis is about the only senior player I would describe as overrated. Too inconsistent and a big difference between best and worst. Seemed to play one of his best games this year as a lead up forward.

I probably overrate Guerra because he seems in the play a lot while the board tends to underrate him because of his errors. Truth is likely somewhere in between !

Of the players who front up regularly for Box Hill , most are rated about right at the moment. Shoey needed some time in the reserves to learn to play defence without costing us games in the process and Shiels is still a work in progress and should get some more games under his belt next year. Not sure if Muston will make it , seems to lack agility moving sideways.

Dowler = mishandled in my book. Every time I saw him play in the seniors he did ok or as much as I would expect. One player I would wish all the best if he could make a go of it at another club.

Suckling is underrated. Does seem to go missing at times but I could say the same for the majority of our list when we are getting belted. Probably because I like the game being kept simple most times I'd try and get him into the side against sides that play a lot of stop/start and lockdown footy like the Swans to just kick the s*** out of the ball as far as he can.

JKT maybe overrated at the start of the year. Kicking skills deserted him under pressure in a senior game and he's been at Box Hill ever since.

Moss. Rated about right. Depth player.

Morton. One player I've overrated. Good start to his career playing the old Ellis like role down back as a link player but with the game changing doesn't seem to have the ability to hold down a particular position.

Morton and Stokes are the only 2 players I would move on. Maybe JKT depending on how he has gone at Box Hill in the last half of the season. I'm expecting Dowler to be cut

 

[DannyJ]

Overated

Josh Gibson - really not sure why you picked him up. The fact that you are now talking about getting Tarrant demonstrates this. Though I notice even on this thread the line about him finishing fifth in our B+F in an injury shattered year where we finished near the bottom and lost a coach proving anything making an appearance. I hope to God that wasn't a factor.

Cyril Rioli - Rioli has talent to burn and would walk into any side in the league. But Hawthorn, with a complicit media, have talked him so much that nobody could meet the expectations. I realise he came back from injury this year and I saw him do some very good things but the fact is he doesn't deliver enough and certainly not at the level you lot expect. Manage you rexpectations on Cyril and you'll get better results.

Ryan Schoenmakers - Should have gone at 3 in his draft according to one good judge. Stratton has been far better. Schoenmakers is the backline version of Dowler/Muston etc.

Underrated

Jarryd Roughead - Is rapidly gaining on Daniel Wells as the most harshly judged and unfairly maligned player in the league. Kicked more than most team leading scores. Is still young. Is almost certainly being given instructions that frustrate the fans

Brad Sewell - I know you will say you love Sewell and know how much of a gun he is but I don't think you appreciate just how critically important he is. Is one behind Hodge in importance for you. I take that using the scale of: 'Which Hawthorn players am I happiest to hear are missing when we play them". Seriously, I'm more releived to hear Sewell is out when you play you than Franklin/Rioli etc.

Gibson played very well in the 12 matches he played in. Gibson is a great rebounder and would be a great No.2 defender. We still need a Croad replacement, Gibson wasn't that, Schoenmakers was the hope this season to play that role.
Gibson plays the role we tried to recruit Thornton for, and clearly we won the 2008 Premiership with Hodge playing defence and going shorter in the midfield with quality.
Your comments on calling Gibson overated are clearly a bitter North thing, and for what we traded we acquired a good player on the cheap.

Cyril Rioli's year was below par. Due to a number of reasons, but I agree with you on you assesment. Hopefully 2011 is the year he gets rid of the overated tag.

Schoenmakers has been overated. Mentioning Dowler/Muston is a wrong call. I expect Ryan to be a good player, but the expectations have been very high on the lad. Has done very well in his first two season (better than Lachlan Hansen). However Hawthorn fans have overated him, I agree. He is only 19.

Bad Call on Sewell aswell, people rate him very highly. He isn't overated/underated. He is what he is. Oh, and Franklin is way more important, that comment is utter stupidity.

 

[cma6]

I see a lot of similarities beween Henderson from Carlton and Dowler. Henderson has an opportunity though and in coming years should develop into a nice player.

I think Roughead needs to build his tank and run centre half forward while Dowler is tried from the square. Franklin is the perfect 3rd tall in a forward line. He can just float back and forth as he pleases.

I'd hate to use pick 6 on a key forward and then not try him for an extended period as a key forward.

Remember he'd be playing on a full back who is probably the 3rd best tall backman from the opposition each week. He'd have to be a chance to kick a few.

 

[dipper86]

In regards to Guerra up untill the St kilda game had had been very good all year, then he dropped away big time, doing some really soft stuff, not to mention his terrible blunders, I have no idea what went wrong, my only conclusion is that he had a sex change, he did some of the softest stuff i have seen from a Hawthorn player in many years.

Lewis well, he isn't being coached very well, he has played the majority of the year as a flanker and a defensive forward, he is a hard nosed midfielder first and foremost and not an outside receiver. Clarkson seems to think we can turn him into one.

Roughead has been solid this year, that being said he isn't playing to his potential, he just doesn't lead hard or consistently enough to the ball carrier, he really needs to build his tank or he will be left behind.

Bateman, well he's being used as run with player, what a waste considering he is one of our hardest running players in our side, probably the best at finding space from just hard gut running, It was a great call by Clarkson turning one of only line breakers into a run with player. Once again he turned a positive into a negative.

Clarkson ....now he's the one that overrated/gameplan and all.

 

[NDFCHFC2]

hahaahh Cant believe the general belief that Hooper has done anything all year. Now people are saying he was an underrated player. haahah. If the club didnt rate him would they have wasted a draft pick on him??!! they obviously thought he was good....and you must now think he is a superstar! I stated he was the worst possible pick in that draft and sadly have been proven correct. His body cant evan cope with a 2 possesion game. No idea. He will be discarded and dumped on the side of the road where he belongs. Worst pick in draft history.

Underrated!!! Beau Dowler - Accurate shot for goal and in the John Barker mould. Reliable kick in the AFL - he cant give a shit playing in the magoos.
Overrated-- Muston and Morton and def Murphy. But clarkson wont admit he was wrong about Murphy until he singlehandedly loses the club a Grand Final.

 

[DannyJ]

hahaahh Cant believe the general belief that Hooper has done anything all year. Now people are saying he was an underrated player. haahah. If the club didnt rate him would they have wasted a draft pick on him??!! they obviously thought he was good....and you must now think he is a superstar! I stated he was the worst possible pick in that draft and sadly have been proven correct. His body cant evan cope with a 2 possesion game. No idea. He will be discarded and dumped on the side of the road where he belongs. Worst pick in draft history.

I hope you dont stay on this board for long.

Hooper will be vital for us next year. Run along now.

 

[dipper86]

hahaahh Cant believe the general belief that Hooper has done anything all year. Now people are saying he was an underrated player. haahah. If the club didnt rate him would they have wasted a draft pick on him??!! they obviously thought he was good....and you must now think he is a superstar! I stated he was the worst possible pick in that draft and sadly have been proven correct. His body cant evan cope with a 2 possesion game. No idea. He will be discarded and dumped on the side of the road where he belongs. Worst pick in draft history.

I can't believe your football knowledge is non existent, Yeh his hammys atm are like rubber bands, but what he provides is something our forward line hasn't had in quite a while and thats defensive pressure, He has a 5 to 1 win loss ratio when he has played this year whilst playing in the hardest position on the ground. he has talent, he has aggression, he has speed, something our forward line clearly lacks. For a player that was injury proned and unfit he has showed he is going to be a valuable pick if he gets his hammy's right after a full pre season.

 

[Big Ronnie]

Overated;

Guerra
Gilham
Birchall
Lewis
Ellis
Young
Osborne
Ladson

Jeez you're a bit hard mate

I'd remove

Gilly (how many fullbacks are there that are better? B'Lake and thats it)
Birchall
Lewis improved greatly second half
Ellis is getting better and is what 21?
Young you've got to be kidding, he is a star

Ozze.Laddo. Guerra. and after this year even Changa was yuck

 

[NDFCHFC2]

Overrated- 1. T. Murphy - Shocking player, no future in the game.
2. R. Hooper - Cant cope with the demands on the body , if not his hammies he gets general soreness ...from 1 games work. Had a year to prove his body can cope and even when fully fit will struggle to do enough. Peterson, Rioli, are two examples of better forwards than him and 1 or 2 more could be drafted with ease.
3. Whitex - lacks composure under pressure and doesnt know his limitations.
4. Muston - no ball skills
5. Morton - No natural skill
6. 4-5 of the BBH players with no future and who were a wasted draft choice.

 

[dipper86]

Overrated- 1. T. Murphy - Shocking player, no future in the game.
2. R. Hooper - Cant cope with the demands on the body , if not his hammies he gets general soreness ...from 1 games work. Had a year to prove his body can cope and even when fully fit will struggle to do enough. Peterson, Rioli, are two examples of better forwards than him and 1 or 2 more could be drafted with ease.
3. Whitex - lacks composure under pressure and doesnt know his limitations.
4. Muston - no ball skills
5. Morton - No natural skill
6. 4-5 of the BBH players with no future and who were a wasted draft choice.

1..I wouldn't say he is a shocking player, but can anyone honestly see him playing in our next premierships side...I can't. he's a fill in player.

2. Will be a player, no pre season, has showed more than enough

3. still young, not up to the tempo as yet. Will be quality.

4 agree.
5.agree
6. elaborate.

 

[dipper86]

Shoenmachers......He has to play turnovers and all, he has to learn on the best forwards not the second rate forwards in the VFL, Like Buddy and Roughy before him he has to be persisted with, because he will have a massive say in where Hawthorn is in the next 3 years.

 

[dipper86]

How on earth could you think that. Unless you are deluded or braindead. Evan when fit he did little and rioli and peterson are better defensive forwards than he has ever been. He cant evan kick goals, and you will be relying on him or think he is vital. You are the worst judge of talent I know and you must have been raised with gerriatrics.

Once again you're an ignoramus, if you're going to make outlandish comments, at least back them up with stats.

He averages .2 less goals than Cyril this year and he also avgs more goals than Peterson this year, 1.2 vs 0.8

Cyril 1.4 vs Hooper 1.2 goals per game.
Peterson 0.8 vs Hooper 1.2

In regards to tackles.

Cyril 4.9 vs Hooper 4.2
Peterson 3.1 vs Hooper 4.2

This is all coming from a half fit player that did no pre season, Your lack of football knowledge astounds me.

 

[tige19]

Don't deserve to be rated:
Taylor
Ladson
Muston
Whitecross
Morton
Moss
Dowler
Osbourne

Overated:
Birchill
Guerra
Roughead
Murphy
Gilham
Lewis
Mitchell (sorry but gets useless touches)
Brown
Bateman

Underated:
Hooper
Skipper
Renouf
Peterson

people may think I'm a tad harsh but Mitchell gives some of the most pathetic handballs into traffic, it's as if he is paid to put his team mates in trouble.