Who are the top 10 midfielders in the league?

[Oshka]

Dusty is the best big game player without doubt, but he's not the undisputed best player/midfielder in the league.

9 out of 20 games last year, he had <=20 disposals and <=1 goal. At his best, he's possibly the most damaging player I've ever seen, but he goes missing way too often to be considered outright, unmatched number 1. For me, it's gotta be Fyfe, but it's highly debatable. It's rude to bag others out for having differing opinions in something so subjective

Dusty is considered a forward by Richmond (Leppa spoke about this on SEN before the Fremantle/Melbourne game in round one). He attends centre bounces then drifts forward. If there’s a stoppage in the forward half he will attend the stoppage. If the stoppage is in defensive half he isolates himself with his direct opponent in the forward line. He drifts between midfield and forward, but he’s predominantly a forward. I found that interesting because I always considered him a midfielder first, forward second. That’s not the way Richmond view it. I guess it makes sense.

The fact he sits forward when the ball is in our defensive fifty means he’s going to go “missing” more often than your typical midfielders. Just like how other forwards go missing when the ball is in their defensive half. In comparison, pure midfielders are likely to get back and help out the defence/rack up higher numbers because they cover the whole ground.

That’s why reading into Dusty’s average number of disposals and comparing them to other elite mids can be very misleading. They have different roles. Very different. Dusty played predominantly midfield against St Kilda (first time in a long time) and his numbers were high. The only way to statistically gauge how he stacks up to the best mids in the comp is to isolate his games where he plays primarily as a midfielder and compare them that way, otherwise you’re just wasting your time.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Dusty averaged 20.65 disposals in 2020.

There were 38 players ahead of him in that stat. That includes some of the top players in the competition:
Treloar, Neale, Macrae, Merrett, Mitchell, Oliver, Pendlebury, Petracca, Boak, Parker, Steele, Fyfe, Bontempelli, Dangerfield, plus many more.

If you're going to use reduced quarters as an excuse for lower output, then at least be aware that this did not hinder the output of the other top midfielders.

Didn't Martin spend a lot of time forward, hence goals and score involvements up and disposals down???

 

[Suitcase]

Dusty is a clear number 1 for me. No one is as good as him with ball in hand.

What position he's defined as is irrelevant, he is the best in the comp when he's in the middle, there is no one that can match him in terms of midfield craft.

 

[Suitcase]

I'm sorry but Neale doesnt deserve to be anywhere near the top 5. He gets half of his touches in the backline. And a lot of the time uncontested marks in the back pocket

You taking the piss?
His 2020 rankings:
1st in comp for contested possesions
2nd for clearances
3rd for inside 50s

Not sure where you got your info from. Fair enough if he's not in your top 5 but your reasoning is just silly

 

[AFLOnline]

Dusty probably isn't necessarily the best midfielder in the comp. That's fair.

But if you put them all in a pool, draft them, and give me pick 1?

I'm picking D.Martin.

Can’t disagree with this, goodie

 

[AFLOnline]

How in the hell is it even up for debate that Martin is #1?
Do the people arguing against this actually watch him play?

And for those saying he's out of form, I'd argue he's just about leading the brownlow after 5 rounds

I have not read a single post about anyone saying he’s out of form lol who said this?

There is absolutely no way he’s leading the Brownlow, off the top of my head I’d say Dunkley, Bontempelli, Macrae Oliver, Walker and Mundy would all be comfortably ahead of him.

dusty would have a definite 3 votes in round one, maybe a vote or 2 in round two and that would just about be it. He wasn’t in the top 3 players on the ground against the Saints but it wouldn’t surprise me if the umps slotted him in for a vote. So maybe he would be on 6 votes right now if we are being generous. That wouldn’t be close to leading. Someone would be on 10+ at the end of round 5

 

[DeezNuts]

I have not read a single post about anyone saying he’s out of form lol who said this?

There is absolutely no way he’s leading the Brownlow, off the top of my head I’d say Dunkley, Bontempelli, Macrae Oliver, Walker and Mundy would all be comfortably ahead of him.

dusty would have a definite 3 votes in round one, maybe a vote or 2 in round two and that would just about be it. He wasn’t in the top 3 players on the ground against the Saints but it wouldn’t surprise me if the umps slotted him in for a vote. So maybe he would be on 6 votes right now if we are being generous. That wouldn’t be close to leading. Someone would be on 10+ at the end of round 5

If you think dusty having 34 and a goal in an 86 point win won’t poll him votes you really haven’t been paying attention to the Brownlow

 

[AFLOnline]

If you think dusty having 34 and a goal in an 86 won’t poll him votes you really haven’t been paying attention to the Brownlow

That’s why I said it wouldn’t surprise me if he did receive votes, but being at the game there were a few players who were obviously better than Dusty...

Edwards, Bolton, Riewoldt were the clear cut top 3 for me, then there were a few others that were there abouts - Clark, Nankervis, Baker, Steele, Graham, Coffield etc. (however I obviously wouldn’t expect any of the saints guys to poll a single Brownlow vote)

It was like a reverse-Dusty game, high disposal count, lower impact than normal. His goal was seriously good, but other than that he wasn’t as noticeable as he usually is even with a lower possession count.

 

[jc12]

If you have a problem with using stats to assess his impact, then consider the AFLCA leaderboard. I believe Dusty missed a single game in 2020, yet he only managed 15th place on the AFLCA votes. Behind midfielders such as Neale, Petracca, Boak, Steele, Adams, Bontempelli, Merrett, Guthrie, Macrae, Dangerfield, Parker, Pendlebury and Wines. In Brownlow votes, he finished 6th, with Neale, Boak, Petracca and Steele ahead while even with Macrae, Dangerfield and Parker.

Given the number of blokes outperforming him across the season, does this sound like a "undisputed best player/midfielder"?

Does Bontempelli stat pad? I'd say most consider him the high damage per disposal type, not a stat padder. But don't let that get in the way of your narrative.

I was pointing out the fact you said dusty has a high impact player yet used quantity of stats to discredit him compared to others . Massive contradiction.

A lot of great players didn't win coaches awards and stuff or didn't go that high but they were still great. Because you don't use a single type of metric to judge it , you use a bit of stats a bit of the eye as well etc. Gary Ablett senior was only mvp once. Yet still considered one of the best. You don't use these leaderboards and stats only to judge who is the best.

The facts are he is a high impact player , who is the best player in the best team, performs on the biggest stage and is consistent every year in his output of being in the player in the comp. You must be blind to not see it.

The biggest reasons why he is the best in the comp is because in big moments he delivers. We weight big moments much higher than regular home and away junk time crap. He delivers for his team the ultimate goal that is to win the flag. Then you combine that with his consistent brilliance year in year out. That's why he is the best. Bont is good but let's be honest dusty has turned way more games than him.

 

[jc12]

That’s why I said it wouldn’t surprise me if he did receive votes, but being at the game there were a few players who were obviously better than Dusty...

Edwards, Bolton, Riewoldt were the clear cut top 3 for me, then there were a few others that were there abouts - Clark, Nankervis, Baker, Steele, Graham, Coffield etc. (however I obviously wouldn’t expect any of the saints guys to poll a single Brownlow vote)

It was like a reverse-Dusty game, high disposal count, lower impact than normal. His goal was seriously good, but other than that he wasn’t as noticeable as he usually is even with a lower possession count.

We know you're still salty over the loss. Just take a deep breathe and enjoy the work of the GOAT dusty. We are privileged to watch the best player ever do his work

 

[jc12]

Dusty averaged 20.65 disposals in 2020.

There were 38 players ahead of him in that stat. That includes some of the top players in the competition:
Treloar, Neale, Macrae, Merrett, Mitchell, Oliver, Pendlebury, Petracca, Boak, Parker, Steele, Fyfe, Bontempelli, Dangerfield, plus many more.

If you're going to use reduced quarters as an excuse for lower output, then at least be aware that this did not hinder the output of the other top midfielders.

Look at this guy using disposals average as a metric for best player

Using your logic macrae or something is the best in the comp. Stop embarrassing yourself mate. The whole comp knows dustys 20 disp is way more damaging than a macrae 35

 

[AFLOnline]

This dude jc12 always post pure quality such as his last two posts?

 

[phantom13]

I can kind of see the point, mids are generally supposed to be two way players and Steele, Dunks, Yeo etc. defend as hard as they attack, dusty can look pretty disinterested at times when the tigers don’t have the ball.

The issue with that is that dusty is so ridiculously good attacking that it more than makes up for it. If he was in my team I’d be telling him not to bother wasting his energy.

He’s number 1 by a margin for me. Bont probably the only player close.

 

[00Stinger]

I have not read a single post about anyone saying he’s out of form lol who said this?

There is absolutely no way he’s leading the Brownlow, off the top of my head I’d say Dunkley, Bontempelli, Macrae Oliver, Walker and Mundy would all be comfortably ahead of him.

dusty would have a definite 3 votes in round one, maybe a vote or 2 in round two and that would just about be it. He wasn’t in the top 3 players on the ground against the Saints but it wouldn’t surprise me if the umps slotted him in for a vote. So maybe he would be on 6 votes right now if we are being generous. That wouldn’t be close to leading. Someone would be on 10+ at the end of round 5

I reckon Oliver would be leading the brownlow.

A few predictors I have seen have said the same thing

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[Iceman!]

Look at this guy using disposals average as a metric for best player

Using your logic macrae or something is the best in the comp. Stop embarrassing yourself mate. The whole comp knows dustys 20 disp is way more damaging than a macrae 35

You could make a case Macrae is not far off the best mid in the comp to be fair.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

North don't have any top 10 mids. LDU is our best chance but still has a long way to go.

Smith isn't a top 10 mid yet.

he will be easy but no way yet, Dunkley is pushing on thr door so far this year

 

[BennyGan]

Dusty is much better forward than he is mid. There are probably 10 better pure mids than him but its hard to argue he isn't the best forward when he plays there.

 

[Grrr]

Dusty is much better forward than he is mid. There are probably 10 better pure mids than him but its hard to argue he isn't the best forward when he plays there.

Well if he is not played there much it is pretty hard to argue against what you are saying. If he played pure mid, I'm sure he would be still around the top, not outside the top 10.

 

[BennyGan]

Well if he is not played there much it is pretty hard to argue against what you are saying. If he played pure mid, I'm sure he would be still around the top, not outside the top 10.

yeah i think he is in the conversation for to 10 mids for sure but he certainly isnt the best mid imo. I value mids that do everything and dusty is great offensively but he literally does nothing defensively. for someone that is so strong he really should be a good tackler but he has never been good at it his whole career which is weird. dont know if its just like how some nba players that are stars just rest on defense like harden to conserve energy. there's no doubt he's a star I just think there are players that are better all around mids than him.

 

[Grrr]

yeah i think he is in the conversation for to 10 mids for sure but he certainly isnt the best mid imo. I value mids that do everything and dusty is great offensively but he literally does nothing defensively. for someone that is so strong he really should be a good tackler but he has never been good at it his whole career which is weird. dont know if its just like how some nba players that are stars just rest on defense like harden to conserve energy. there's no doubt he's a star I just think there are players that are better all around mids than him.

He doesn't tackle much because in most contests he wins the ball somehow just through superior strength. How many times do you see him go to a contest and come away with the ball.

Attacking mids like Judd (4), Hird (1.7), Harvey (1.6) weren't notable tacklers because they were all ball focussed and usually first too it, I acknowledge the game has changed a bit since then. Even an inside workhorse like Sam Mitchell only averaged 3.7 a game.

Martin averages 3 tackles a game. Fyfe (4), Dangerfield (3.8).

 

[BennyGan]

He doesn't tackle much because in most contests he wins the ball somehow just through superior strength. How many times do you see him go to a contest and come away with the ball.

Attacking mids like Judd (4), Hird (1.7), Harvey (1.6) weren't notable tacklers because they were all ball focussed and usually first too it, I acknowledge the game has changed a bit since then. Even an inside workhorse like Sam Mitchell only averaged 3.7 a game.

Martin averages 3 tackles a game. Fyfe (4), Dangerfield (3.8).

tackling isn't the only thing though he rarely helps defensively, but i guess thats not his role in the team, much better having him forward than up the ground

 

[Grrr]

tackling isn't the only thing though he rarely helps defensively, but i guess thats not his role in the team, much better having him forward than up the ground

Lambert or Graham as half forward take Dusty's man when the ball goes into defence. As they are such good gut running link players they then transition (to Martin often). Hence why Lambert has one a 2nd and 3rd B&F, and would be winning it this year so far I reckon. It is a good system.

 

[BEaston]

Those are not objective, they are aggregated from statistics and some of those require judgement calls.

Not really. Each action has a set definition and the play either meets it or it doesn't. All statisticians are trained in the same way, and all footage is independently reviewed post-game. About as objective as it could get when it comes to AFL.

 

[BEaston]

Dusty is much better forward than he is mid. There are probably 10 better pure mids than him but its hard to argue he isn't the best forward when he plays there.

Agreed. You almost need to differentiate between pure mids and those that split their time forward. It's not comparing apples to apples.

If you look at "match winning ability", then the Dustys of the world will come out on top. If you look at statistical output, then the Macrae's will come out on top.

 

[BennyGan]

Lambert or Graham as half forward take Dusty's man when the ball goes into defence. As they are such good gut running link players they then transition (to Martin often). Hence why Lambert has one a 2nd and 3rd B&F, and would be winning it this year so far I reckon. It is a good system.

no doubt the system works. love graham. absolute work horse.