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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Who is Concerned about Pratt?
- Thread starter HappyHawk
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Upgrayedd
A Vote for Clive is a Vote for Justice
Essendon?you are well named ...16 premierships defines the great clubs from the others ...We all know why Judd didn't pick your club don't we ?
they also dont win multiple spoons
*bangs my head against a brick wall, over and over*
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- #29
Ok, the answer is then load up your board of directors with MEGA rich supporters who can "arrange" these cushy jobs. Attract the elite players this way and screw the salary cap.
Gee, I didn't know it was that simple to get around the system.
Bubble Wrap
Senior List
you are well named ...16 premierships defines the great clubs from the others ...We all know why Judd didn't pick your club don't we ?
Because we actually have some talented youngsters and therefore could not afford to give 25% of our salary cap to one player?
Pretty obvious I would have thought.
Forzaport
Brownlow Medallist
As long as players get payed what they're worth during their careers and it all fits in to the salary cap, then i have no problems. If judd was payed less during his career to satisfy the salary cap, only to get "looked after" by pratt in retirement, then there is a big problem. As he is currently taking a big chunk of carlton's salary cap, it would appear that they are playing fair, for now....
There are some naïve people around. Many in the media actually.
Yes, the AFL have a salary cap but the AFL operates in the real world. I this real world that some posters on here and much of the hysterical media flunkies don’t seem to comprehend, you can’t regulate arses not to fart. The world keeps turning. Businesses keep wanting to pay people to do all sorts of things and people continue to have passions.
The problem here is not that a bloke loves a football club and can help it. The problem here is that the AFL want to hold some clubs back in the name of preventing domination by a few when in fact their rules are not practically workable. The AFL know full well that some clubs offer better ability for players to make money outside of playing wages. They know full well that some clubs have people who help players make financial deals in all sorts of areas of business. I suspect they would prefer it didn’t happen but they know they can’t frame legal rules to prevent it and even if they could and they tried they would end up with a comp that the players wouldn’t play in.
Some people want a pristine cap as part of utopian competition where all teams have equal chance of success. Not in this universe I’m afraid. What amuses me is how many of these people bemoan the AFL making financially driven decisions forsaking footy. As I said, there are some naïve people around.
Yes, the AFL have a salary cap but the AFL operates in the real world. I this real world that some posters on here and much of the hysterical media flunkies don’t seem to comprehend, you can’t regulate arses not to fart. The world keeps turning. Businesses keep wanting to pay people to do all sorts of things and people continue to have passions.
The problem here is not that a bloke loves a football club and can help it. The problem here is that the AFL want to hold some clubs back in the name of preventing domination by a few when in fact their rules are not practically workable. The AFL know full well that some clubs offer better ability for players to make money outside of playing wages. They know full well that some clubs have people who help players make financial deals in all sorts of areas of business. I suspect they would prefer it didn’t happen but they know they can’t frame legal rules to prevent it and even if they could and they tried they would end up with a comp that the players wouldn’t play in.
Some people want a pristine cap as part of utopian competition where all teams have equal chance of success. Not in this universe I’m afraid. What amuses me is how many of these people bemoan the AFL making financially driven decisions forsaking footy. As I said, there are some naïve people around.
It is almost impossible for any opposition supporter to make an objective claim here. Are they concerned about Pratt because they have the laws of the nation at heart, or is it because Carlton have actually come out of the wilderness?
Oh the latter, most certainly. I would imagine if the positions were reversed, that all off this moralising would almost be non-existent from them.
Tas
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TheBrownDog
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They need to incorporate all income derived from football and football related activities and expand the Salary Cap to take it into consideration or else the Salary Cap will be dead in a matter of years because more and more clubs are getting powerful executives to run clubs and are offering them significant remuneration outside of football payments as mechanisms for attracting players.
When that happens the Salary Cap comes to a point of self-destruction. You can't have a top quality Collingwood player being paid 100k a year plus earning 250k working for Channel 9 because they are a football player. You can't have someone like Judd getting part of his package paid through via Vissy or an associated company when he is doing no real third party job for them other than being a footballer.
If someone has non-football related skills and earning money outside of football then that is fine, any kind of endorsement or PR type of income should fall under a football related payment. Players should need to prove the level of qualification they have for Salary Cap exempt income and prove the amount of work they put in to earn that money. We need to eliminate the back doors and grey areas where clubs are going to be able to squeeze out a few more players via creative remuneration packages.
When that happens the Salary Cap comes to a point of self-destruction. You can't have a top quality Collingwood player being paid 100k a year plus earning 250k working for Channel 9 because they are a football player. You can't have someone like Judd getting part of his package paid through via Vissy or an associated company when he is doing no real third party job for them other than being a footballer.
If someone has non-football related skills and earning money outside of football then that is fine, any kind of endorsement or PR type of income should fall under a football related payment. Players should need to prove the level of qualification they have for Salary Cap exempt income and prove the amount of work they put in to earn that money. We need to eliminate the back doors and grey areas where clubs are going to be able to squeeze out a few more players via creative remuneration packages.
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- #37
It will be very interesting if a couple of elite players want to go to Carlton at the end of next season. Very interesting. This may be a one off, but the perception out there is it may not.
The verdict is out. But just one thing Carlton supporters - you brought your reputation upon yourselves. So you can't go blaming other teams' supporters for being suspicious. The Judd case needs to be investigated and cleared for footy's sake.
If Connors was dealing with Pratt or any Carlton official whilst Judd was under contract, the AFL need to do their best to find out. Flagrant disregard of the rules needs to be stamped out. There is no room for the rich vs the poor in this comp. This may have sunk in at Carlton. But Pratt's appointment and subsequent convictions make him a highly untrustworthy person to be leading a club that has rorted the system before.
Like it or not, when you're convicted of serious breaches in law, you lose your right to trust.
The verdict is out. But just one thing Carlton supporters - you brought your reputation upon yourselves. So you can't go blaming other teams' supporters for being suspicious. The Judd case needs to be investigated and cleared for footy's sake.
If Connors was dealing with Pratt or any Carlton official whilst Judd was under contract, the AFL need to do their best to find out. Flagrant disregard of the rules needs to be stamped out. There is no room for the rich vs the poor in this comp. This may have sunk in at Carlton. But Pratt's appointment and subsequent convictions make him a highly untrustworthy person to be leading a club that has rorted the system before.
Like it or not, when you're convicted of serious breaches in law, you lose your right to trust.
I am bored of the off season already...
1. Tanking... HUGE ISSUE... not! Everyone is pointing the finger at carlton out of sheer bitterness. Many clubs have been down the bottom receiving priority picks. The annoying thing is that some of the finger pointers are supporters of those clubs.
2. Pratt Cheating... Are carlton the first club to offer players incentives OUTSIDE of the footy club? Who was it donating houses to people so that they would be spokesmen, or cars, or whatever. It is pretty common practice. 3 years ago carlton members had to pay $5 with their membership for a hat because the club was so poor. They finally get some financial backing and everyone is calling for blood. There is nothing unusual about the deal. People are just bitter because they didnt get Juddy.
3. Judd... GET OVER IT. He is at carlton. He has gone from being the most loved player in the land, to the most hated just because he didnt pick the other 14 clubs. Carlton fans make it worse with their 'hahahaha we got judd' attitude.
All of this bitterness is just lame
1. Tanking... HUGE ISSUE... not! Everyone is pointing the finger at carlton out of sheer bitterness. Many clubs have been down the bottom receiving priority picks. The annoying thing is that some of the finger pointers are supporters of those clubs.
2. Pratt Cheating... Are carlton the first club to offer players incentives OUTSIDE of the footy club? Who was it donating houses to people so that they would be spokesmen, or cars, or whatever. It is pretty common practice. 3 years ago carlton members had to pay $5 with their membership for a hat because the club was so poor. They finally get some financial backing and everyone is calling for blood. There is nothing unusual about the deal. People are just bitter because they didnt get Juddy.
3. Judd... GET OVER IT. He is at carlton. He has gone from being the most loved player in the land, to the most hated just because he didnt pick the other 14 clubs. Carlton fans make it worse with their 'hahahaha we got judd' attitude.
All of this bitterness is just lame
I can understand other supporters having concerns about Pratt and his ability to provide other "benfits/Jobs" etc to prospective player. However I also think it would be niave to believe this exact type of thing does not happen throughout the competition (although I am not claiming to have any proof).
Most clubs are run by rich supporters and many benefits could be gained by players through these contacts. It is something that is very difficult to police.
I think the bigger discussion here is whether the AFL want to try to tackle these alleged "benefits" and how they could possibly go about it.
If Eddie Maguire, for instance, had of thought a high profile prospective Collingwood Player would make a great new host for "Who wants to be a millionaire" and thought he deserved 2 million a year to do it how could the AFL legally argue that it was cheating the salary cap.
What would stop fantastic property deals getting done or bargain businesses being bought by players
.I think this type of situation will become the norm for quality players and the AFL will choose not to tackle it.
I don't claim to have the answers to stamp it out.
So yes, maybe, as you stated the answer is to fill your board with these MEGA rich supporters to who can arrange "cushy" jobs for players.
The salary cap has, and always will be floored. And I think it would more than likely make most peoples heads spin to know what "benefits" go on at the clubs they support.
I don't know about that.... Essendon won flag in 93' in the midst of a salary cap cheating spree didn't they.
Show me one article where he has confessed to these things. Oh.... that's right, you can't because you're making it up.
Sounds more like a firm grip on the old fella if you ask me, but that's the thing about belief, it doesn't require that you actually have any knowledge.
Ummmm, check the records, they've won more spoons than we have and we've won more Grand Finals than they have, so how about we just deal in the facts here.
he is a self confessed cheat, liar, fraud, etc (whatever you want to call it). as for articles... you don't get out much do you? it's been all over the papers for the past week
that's not to say that i agree with the thread starter, see my earlier post on this matter. just get your facts straight though so you don't sound like an idiot
frankc
Club Legend
Gee........Another hawks supporter having a go at carlton.
WERE CARLTON AND **** THE REST!!!
Personally, I couldn't give two hoots about Carlton at present as they are no competition on or off the field, however can't you people think of your own phrases instead of the standard 'We're Carlton **** the rest'.
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- #44
I can understand other supporters having concerns about Pratt and his ability to provide other "benfits/Jobs" etc to prospective player. However I also think it would be niave to believe this exact type of thing does not happen throughout the competition (although I am not claiming to have any proof).
Most clubs are run by rich supporters and many benefits could be gained by players through these contacts. It is something that is very difficult to police.
I think the bigger discussion here is whether the AFL want to try to tackle these alleged "benefits" and how they could possibly go about it.
If Eddie Maguire, for instance, had of thought a high profile prospective Collingwood Player would make a great new host for "Who wants to be a millionaire" and thought he deserved 2 million a year to do it how could the AFL legally argue that it was cheating the salary cap.
What would stop fantastic property deals getting done or bargain businesses being bought by players
I think this type of situation will become the norm for quality players and the AFL will choose not to tackle it.
I don't claim to have the answers to stamp it out.
So yes, maybe, as you stated the answer is to fill your board with these MEGA rich supporters to who can arrange "cushy" jobs for players.
The salary cap has, and always will be floored. And I think it would more than likely make most peoples heads spin to know what "benefits" go on at the clubs they support.
In my view, it should not be a case of rich vs poor. It should be all about list development, coaching, developing young players, selecting well at draft time etc. Any payments made by rich supporters for non bona fide work performance should be caught under the cap. You can't give a player a house for $200,000 under market value, or pay a player 300k for a job which would normally pay 70k.
The Tax office have tests for all transactions which involve associates, relatives etc. The simple test is market value appraisal. Payments not made in accordance with these tests are considered tax avoidance schemes. When you are found guilty jail terms can even apply.
If this practice is going on, it will only take one Billionaire to accelerate it to a point of no return. The alarm bell rang not because Judd wanted to go the Blues, but when he said he wanted to set himself up outside football
Did he realise what this implies.I don't think so. He is a full time footballer with little time to do much else. It's becoming more apparent by the day. Which means we either scrap the cap and let it become a survival of the fittest. Or make the rules clear and those that breach them suffer massive draft penalties.- Thread starter
- Banned
- #45
If someone like Pratt comes along and offers buddy the opportunity to develop a 20 million dollar QLD complex and Buddy leaves, you will worry then my friend.
Let Carlton have Judd. It evens up the comp. But I don't want this mega rich anti competition law breaker to hi-jack the system. So I say nip it in the bud. Let the AFL come out tough on it now so everyone gets it straight. You get caught, cop two years of no draft picks. People will think twice. Players that get involved should also never be allowed to work in an AFL related job - media or otherwise, including coaching.
This should apply to every club. Full stop.
- May 5, 2006
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I think SGIO would be happy to pay Lance Franklin $1m a year to do some TV commercials, and West Coast $2-300k to play footy.
Simon Black could probably do some promotions for Burswood Casino, too.
Simon Black could probably do some promotions for Burswood Casino, too.
why would i be.. hes the next glenn archer
Agreed, it is unoriginal and has been repeated ad nauseam by a bunch of fans on here recently like it is some badge of honour.
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- #49
It can all get out of hand, but if it's caught by the rules governing the cap, it ensures the integrity of the system.
In my view, it should not be a case of rich vs poor. It should be all about list development, coaching, developing young players, selecting well at draft time etc. Any payments made by rich supporters for non bona fide work performance should be caught under the cap. You can't give a player a house for $200,000 under market value, or pay a player 300k for a job which would normally pay 70k.
The Tax office have tests for all transactions which involve associates, relatives etc. The simple test is market value appraisal. Payments not made in accordance with these tests are considered tax avoidance schemes. When you are found guilty jail terms can even apply.
If this practice is going on, it will only take one Billionaire to accelerate it to a point of no return. The alarm bell rang not because Judd wanted to go the Blues, but when he said he wanted to set himself up outside football
In a perfect world I totally agree with you, however this aint no perfect world. It's all well and good to say if someone is doing a job worth $70,000 they should not get paid $300,000, but how does anyone, let alone the AFL, determine what a job is worth? Is there a chart as to what an executive or whatever should get? Is having a high profile salesman for instance worth more than an unknown (I would suggest yes).
If Pratt wasnt an offical of Carlton, just a supporter, would it be OK to give Judd, for instance, a job?
If a supporter wanted to "mentor" a player in property development for no charge would that be ok?
If a player ended up at Collingwood and his wife got a plum TV job with high exposure and good money would that be ok?
The AFL, IMHO, would not want to go anywhere near this grey area in Football.
Life would be perfect in a perfect world
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