Who Should Be In The Hall Of Fame, and Who Should Be A Legend?

[juss]

HOF is a bit of a wank fest tbh.
Players/Coaches/Admin that shouldn't be there are. Players/Coaches/Admin that should be in are not because they don't hail from the 'great state' of Victoria.

Often emotion plays a role in inducting someone because feels or they a good bloke.

There are too many legends with the quality of 'legend' not always meeting what needs to be required to have 'legend' status. Almost need to create another tier like immortal or god where those that have been in the top .01% (probably even less than this) of service to the game are inducted.
That way they can have HOF and Legend to appease the feel good attitude the world has... and then God status to actually aknowledge only the very few who deserve it. Probably at this stage a maximum of 15people across Australia are at that level (not all of which have been inducted as Legend status either because you know... not a victorian).

1. Hard to define who should be what without seeing the differing criteria for each and what they are trying to acknowledge.

2. The mandatory inductions aren't fitting into that, if there's a decent criteria then 6 people shouldn't automatically make it each year, and if they do, then the criteria are too loose.

It's supposed to be an exclusive honour for the very greatest figures of the game, not sure that's being held up based on some names Im seeing.

 

[BBC1967]

Dick Clay four time premiership Richmond. Played in midfield then moved to full back. Replaced Royce Hart at CHF when he was out injured. Anyone who saw him play way back would agree.

 

[Back One Out]

Andrew Jarman. Forget the idiot in the media, his playing record is as good as any.

View attachment 688332

Good footballer, but worthy of Hall Of Fame? Its a bit of a stretch... Andrew Jarman won most of those awards in a weakened SANFL comp.

Those SANFL awards from the 90’s aren’t worth mentioning. It was a second tier competition once the Crows joined the AFL in 1991.

Those All Australian honours (86-87) were not earned over a whole season. They were earned via a couple of good games in state of origin - bruise free exhibition games played midweek on a Tuesday night.

He won the 1987 Magarey Medal while many South Australian guns were playing in Victoria: Kernahan, Bradley, Platten, Hall, McGuinness, Motley, Naley, Rendell, Lindner, Kappler, Fielke, Antrobus, Abernethy, M.Williams, Mickan, Jonas, T.Viney, Stretch, D.Hughes, Lokan, Russell, D.Bolton.

That’s pretty much the SA state squad, right there... Chuck in McDermott, McIntosh, Salisbury, G.Anderson and Jarman. Aish and Greg Phillips were pretty old by then & probably past their best.

I’m not a biased Victorian. I’m all for more SANFL and WAFL representation in the Hall of Fame. I just think there are better footballers than Jarman who aren’t in.

From those I listed above, Tony McGuinness is one whose name jumps out. He was a star for Glenelg, Footscray and the Crows. He won the 1982 Magarey Medal when the SANFL was arguably at its peak. Dual Best and Fairest and dual All Australian (1992-93). Captained the Crows.

Kym Hodgeman was another star rover from South Australia who won the Magarey Medal and came across to Victoria and won a club best and fairest for a decent North Melbourne team. He’ll probably never get in, but he was a good player.

Same with Greg Anderson and Garry McIntosh.

Tony Hall was a better footballer than Andrew Jarman. Bloody shame he did his knee in 1989. He was never as good after that. He was on fire for the Hawks before he got injured in that mid-season state game. He was a star in his first VFL season when he finished 4th in the Brownlow.

From Hawthorn, there are champions like Gary Buckenara and Chris Mew who aren’t in the Hall. Not from SA, but those two were absolute lynchpins of our 83, 86, 88 and 89 premierships. They’re in our team of the century, but they can’t seem to get a look-in for the AFL Hall of Fame. I’d have both in ahead of Andrew Jarman

 

[Hank Scorpion]

Worsfold will surely be entered one day? - involved as captain/coach for West Coast's first five grand finals, winning three of them. Probably gets the nod once he's finished at Essendon.

 

[Back One Out]

Nice melt,
Can you share why he doesn’t deserve hall of fame status

2 flags as a player
2 flags as a coach (along with never missing finals) at Norwood

Helped turn Collingwood around in the early 2000’s assisting Malthouse making the finals twice

and hugely influential in both Geelong and now Richmond’s turn around into successful clubs

Neil Balme doesn’t get anywhere near the Hall of Fame because he was an okay player. Not great. He was always the second ruck at Richmond. Played forward pocket and only once kicked more than 40 goals for the season.

He was an okay coach for a few years. Not great. He didn’t last. Won a flag for Norwood and got Melbourne to a prelim before getting the sack.

The Hall of Fame is for greatness. Not okayness.

His record as football manager/support staff over the past 10 years is irrelevant.

Gee whiz... Next thing we’ll have people nominating former players who were the club runner in premiership season

 

[Back One Out]

Can we please stop conflating player’s achievements with their coaching achievements and also their admin and media work.

The Hall of Fame isn’t there to recognise good blokes for their overall contribution to footy in all facets.

Players get inducted for what they achieved as players

Coaches get inducted for their coaching achievements

Administrators and media servants are inducted for their lifetime of work in those particular fields.

John Longmire wasn’t a Hall of Fame player. He kicked 500 goals in his career (averaging 3.63 goals per game across his best six seasons) when scoring was at an all-time high and the champion forwards were averaging well over 4.5 goals per game.

He has done a good job as coach of the Swans, but he would need more than one flag to be inducted as a Hall of Fame coach.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Worsfold will surely be entered one day? - involved as captain/coach for West Coast's first five grand finals, winning three of them. Probably gets the nod once he's finished at Essendon.

Always been a contentious one - as a player he was no champion (but a better player than Mark Bickley, the official ‘low bar’ of the hall) and as a coach, he has the longevity, but ultimately 1 flag.

That said, his body of work over 30 years in the game at the top level, his standing in the game etc - it’s definitely up there in consideration.

My guess is he’ll be championed by West Coast, Essendon and probably even Adelaide once he’s finished at the Bombers.

 

[citizen-erased]

probably a while off, and Carey and Ablett need to go in prior, but i'd like to see Voss, Hird and Bucks go in together as Legends.

 

[Belnakor]

Big game player, great leader, was among the best in most grand finals he played

That’s a HOF resume not a legend of the game. Peter Sumich was a good leader with a great record in finals. Don’t see him anywhere near legend status and nor should he. Same as Hart. Not sure what they were thinking putting him in.

 

[Belnakor]

probably a while off, and Carey and Ablett need to go in prior, but i'd like to see Voss, Hird and Bucks go in together as Legends.

Hird and Bucks don’t have the record to be a legend. Voss maybe.

 

[Captain_Bender]

That’s a HOF resume not a legend of the game. Peter Sumich was a good leader with a great record in finals. Don’t see him anywhere near legend status and nor should he. Same as Hart. Not sure what they were thinking putting him in.

Did Sumich captain his side to flags, did Sumich win B&Fs in premiership years, did Sumich ever have a season averaging 20+ possessions playing at centre half forward no

 

[Belnakor]

Did Sumich captain his side to flags, did Sumich win B&Fs in premiership years, did Sumich ever have a season averaging 20+ possessions playing at centre half forward no

So would you have Kernahan in as a walk up start to Legend status? he record is as good if not better than Harts. Or Terry Daniher? Or Barry Hall? How about Tredrea?

All those guys have the same kind of achievements as Hart.

Hart was not a cut above the average HOF. Not by a long shot.

 

[Captain_Bender]

So would you have Kernahan in as a walk up start to Legend status? he record is as good if not better than Harts. Or Terry Daniher? Or Barry Hall? How about Tredrea?

All those guys have the same kind of achievements as Hart.

Hart was not a cut above the average HOF. Not by a long shot.

Hart was better than Kernahan who will be a legend in the hall of fame one day, and a fair few levels above Daniher, Hall and Tredrea, before doing his knee Hart was better than Carey

 

[Catsnlakers]

Hird and Bucks don’t have the record to be a legend. Voss maybe.

Well when you consider that Hird & Buckley are seen as top 3 players in both clubs history ( who have 15 & 16 premiership’s respectively ) they have a pretty good case.... I see these three the same way the previous generation had Lockett, Dunstall & Ablett...All time great players who played in the same position for the most part. The aforementioned three will all eventually be legends, so Bucks, Hird & Voss have a fair chance...

 

[carloss]

Hart was better than Kernahan who will be a legend in the hall of fame one day, and a fair few levels above Daniher, Hall and Tredrea, before doing his knee Hart was better than Carey

Kernahan - 251 games and 738 goals

 

[Belnakor]

Well when you consider that Hird & Buckley are seen as top 3 players in both clubs history ( who have 15 & 16 premiership’s respectively ) they have a pretty good case.... I see these three the same way the previous generation had Lockett, Dunstall & Ablett...All time great players who played in the same position for the most part. The aforementioned three will all eventually be legends, so Bucks, Hird & Voss have a fair chance...

Legend should be only the very very upper echelon of players, so Lockett is obviously a walk up start and Ablett is pretty close to it. Dunstall for mine easily passes the Royce Hart test but i wouldn't have him in the legends if it is going to be truly legendary.

Hird and Buckley are only in the top of the clubs history because they don't have decent records of previous players. Yes they are outstanding elite players - thats what the HOF is for. Legend should be for the "once in a generation player" - in that era it was obviously Voss.

 

[Belnakor]

Hart was better than Kernahan who will be a legend in the hall of fame one day, and a fair few levels above Daniher, Hall and Tredrea, before doing his knee Hart was better than Carey

I wouldn't have Kernahan in the legend status and if Hart was better than Carey i would have expected him to poll more than .27 of a brownlow vote a game.

 

[Captain_Bender]

I wouldn't have Kernahan in the legend status and if Hart was better than Carey i would have expected him to poll more than .27 of a brownlow vote a game.

Judging a key forward on Brownlow votes sad

 

[Topkent]

Well when you consider that Hird & Buckley are seen as top 3 players in both clubs history ( who have 15 & 16 premiership’s respectively ) they have a pretty good case.... I see these three the same way the previous generation had Lockett, Dunstall & Ablett...All time great players who played in the same position for the most part. The aforementioned three will all eventually be legends, so Bucks, Hird & Voss have a fair chance...

Were Voss Hird and Buckley substantially better players than Ricciuto, Goodes, West, Crawford, Akermanis, Black, R.Harvey, Kouta, Cousins etc?

They were the big 3 but I'm not sure they were head and shoulders above all those guys

 

[Scotland]

Well WC currently have 5; Dean Kemp, Ross Glendinning, Glen Jakovich, Peter Matera, Guy McKenna. Rosco didn't get in for his WC contribution, though.

Going down the list of games played:

*Dom Sheed - first ballot legend*
Dean Cox - obvious yes
Darren Glass - obvious yes
Matt Priddis - I say no even though he won a Brownlow
Ben Cousins - will be another Carey/Ablett, in on performance but delayed a long time on character
David Wirrpanda - nope
Josh Kennedy - I say yes on the basis that David Neitz made it
Daniel Kerr - nope, absolute gun but 1 AA and no B&Fs
Mark LeCras - nope
Chris Lewis - nope
John Worsfold - I say yes but can see why others would say no, was a very good player without a lot of individual accolades.
Chris Mainwaring - nope, questions of character and not high enough peak as a player
Peter Sumich - nope, only 2 top seasons
Chris Judd - obvious yes, potential legend

Other than Judd I don't think anyone else has legend hallmarks. You could argue Cox is the GOAT ruckman with 6 AA selections but I don't think he was revolutionary, just very mobile and skilled for a big guy.

 

[boncer34]

Hard to argue these nominations.

It's actually easy.

Hall of Fame Legend status only looks at playing and coaching.

Lou Richards, while a legend off field, was not a legend on field and never coached.

 

[Scotland]

There are too many HoF inductees as it is.

e.g. O'Loughlin, Tredrea, Neitz, Lloyd, Hall and Richo are all in it. All great players, but 6 key forwards from the same era is too many if the HoF is to attract the prestige it should.

I agree. Those guys played from the early/mid 90s through to the latest 2011. In that same period you've got Carey, Sav Rocca, Nick Riewoldt, Pav, Fev, Alistair Lynch, Jonathan Brown Godra, Gehrig... and they overlap Dunstall, Lockett and Ablett Sr as well as Franklin, Kennedy, Jack Riewoldt etc. who started mid to late 2000s. It's hard to see where the cut off point is.

 

[eth-dog]

I agree. Those guys played from the early/mid 90s through to the latest 2011. In that same period you've got Carey, Sav Rocca, Nick Riewoldt, Pav, Fev, Alistair Lynch, Jonathan Brown Godra, Gehrig... and they overlap Dunstall, Lockett and Ablett Sr as well as Franklin, Kennedy, Jack Riewoldt etc. who started mid to late 2000s. It's hard to see where the cut off point is.

Lucas and Lloyd? I'm not saying the former is worthy, but he's in the conversation with some of those listed.

 

[Scotland]

Lucas and Lloyd? I'm not saying the former is worthy, but he's in the conversation with some of those listed.

Lloyd was already in the post I quoted. Lucas is just as much a HOF calibre player as Michael O'Loughlin IMO.

 

[Catsnlakers]

Legend should be only the very very upper echelon of players, so Lockett is obviously a walk up start and Ablett is pretty close to it. Dunstall for mine easily passes the Royce Hart test but i wouldn't have him in the legends if it is going to be truly legendary.

Hird and Buckley are only in the top of the clubs history because they don't have decent records of previous players. Yes

Were Voss Hird and Buckley substantially better players than Ricciuto, Goodes, West, Crawford, Akermanis, Black, R.Harvey, Kouta, Cousins etc?

They were the big 3 but I'm not sure they were head and shoulders above all those guys

Not substantially, but on a different level nonetheless, which is the difference between being a legend & not....Another example of this would be Sticks Kernahan, his career pretty much coincided with all of Ablett, Lockett & Dunstall, but unlike the aforementioned three he is highly unlikely to reach legend status as he is seen by most as just a tad below them ( Fairly or not ).