Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2

[carlton_99]

Walsh will be forever known as the most overrated player in the history of football.

And yet Sam Walsh is second in the AFL behind Isaac Heeney for coaches votes per game in 2024 despite a disrupted pre-season.

He just cannot hurt the opposition.

And yet Sam Walsh averages 7.4 score involvements per game in 2024 putting him 8th in the AFL. For reference, Nick Daicos, who is widely considered to be a damaging player averages 7.1 per game in 2024 and is 14th.

 

[Worm4]

I think you should start a new thread:

'Richmond and Carlton - who gets the most top 5 draft picks?'

Or another thread -
"Collingwood - why do we continue to give away 1st and 2nd round selections for schmuks?"

 

[hoddo22]

apologies, did not clarify my thoughts clearly. You would much prefer Saad (missed 5), Pittonet (9), Foggarty (6) than McKay (0), Curnow (0) or Cripps (0). Walsh and Cerra are very very good midfielders but not in a game changing way that Cripps is.


every official list shows both of those listed to Essendon so unsure what your point is

No grand final in both those years.

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[Scritchyscroony]

And yet Sam Walsh is second in the AFL behind Isaac Heeney for coaches votes per game in 2024 despite a disrupted pre-season


And yet Sam Walsh averages 7.4 score involvements per game in 2024 putting him 8th in the AFL. For reference, Nick Daicos, who is widely considered to be a damaging player averages 7.1 per game in 2024 and is 14th.

Nah he's right. Sammy the Seagull is one of the most overrated players in the comp. Not fit to tie up Cripps boot laces.

Horrible shanker. Haven't seen a player kick so many helicopters since Kernaghan. Big difference being Kernahans' copters hit the target.

 

[Worm4]

And Walsh will be forever known as the most overrated player in the history of football. The opposition want the ball in 'Where's Wally's' hands as they know it is coming straight back to them. He is the only player in the comp where the opposition encourage him to kick (if you can even call it a kick).
I have seen some Carlton champions in my time (3 of them would be in the best 18 I have seen) even the current team has one champion and a few potential future champions, but Walsh would be one of the worst players (with a big reputation) to ever play the game. He just cannot hurt the opposition.

In your opinion

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I think you should start a new thread:

'Richmond and Carlton - who gets the most top 6 draft picks?'

Top 6 picks taken by Collingwood last 11 drafts - 4

Top 6 picks taken by Richmond last 11 drafts - 0



At this point Collingwood needs to reflect on why they have more draft horses on their list than draft picks.

 

[carlton_99]

Sammy the Seagull

Sammy the Seagull:
Tackles - 6.8 per game (#11 in the AFL)
Pressure acts - 23.5 per game (#10 in the AFL)
Ground ball gets - 9.5 per game (#4 in the AFL)
Contested possessions - 11.9 per game (#19 in the AFL)

By the way he beats Daicos the GOAT in 3/4 of these categories

 

[South of the Yarra]

And yet Sam Walsh is second in the AFL behind Isaac Heeney for coaches votes per game in 2024 despite a disrupted pre-season.


And yet Sam Walsh averages 7.4 score involvements per game in 2024 putting him 8th in the AFL. For reference, Nick Daicos, who is widely considered to be a damaging player averages 7.1 per game in 2024 and is 14th.

Yes and coming into this round Walsh had scored 33% of his coaches votes against top half of the ladder teams. Players like Daicos are going at close to 60%. Sammy the Seagull tees off on the bottom teams but goes missing this year under pressure. I reckon Curnow would be down in the goal square begging, please don’t let Walsh get it, give it to Cripps.

 

[carlton_99]

Yes and coming into this round Walsh had scored 33% of his coaches votes against top half of the ladder teams. Players like Daicos are going at close to 60%. Sammy the Seagull tees off on the bottom teams but goes missing this year under pressure. I reckon Curnow would be down in the goal square begging, please don’t let Walsh get it, give it to Cripps.

Just keep shifting the goalposts. Carlton have had a far harder draw than Collingwood so far especially in the last couple of months and he has still been polling. The coaches see the impact Walsh has and that's why they tag him when they can. Pretty simple really.

Anything on the score involvement stat...?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Sammy the Seagull:
Tackles - 6.8 per game (#11 in the AFL)
Pressure acts - 23.5 per game (#10 in the AFL)
Ground ball gets - 9.5 per game (#4 in the AFL)
Contested possessions - 11.9 per game (#19 in the AFL)

Yep... Your cherry picked best stats just prove that he's not a damaging mid. Good in plodder stats and shanking helicopters. No hurt factor.
Wins less contested ball than "Squibstep". I guess we should start calling him Sammy the Squib.??

 

[Arr0w]

Yes and coming into this round Walsh had scored 33% of his coaches votes against top half of the ladder teams. Players like Daicos are going at close to 60%. Sammy the Seagull tees off on the bottom teams but goes missing this year under pressure. I reckon Curnow would be down in the goal square begging, please don’t let Walsh get it, give it to Cripps.

Seagulls when highlighting goatie as a comparison?

So intent was goatie to stat pad, he was stabbing the ball off the ground, which generally resulted in a turnover, rather than putting his head over the pill and taking possession

Then, rather than hitting up players in the forward 50, his trying to nail difficult goals, that's new levels of selfish

 

[carlton_99]

Yep... Your cherry picked best stats just prove that he's not a damaging mid. Good in plodder stats and shanking helicopters. No hurt factor.
Wins less contested ball than "Squibstep". I guess we should start calling him Sammy the Squib.??

Haha what are you talking about? You called him a "seagull" and I provided stats associated with very "un-seagull like" players.

If you want stats to show him being damaging I already provided score involvements per game in a post above to your mate where Walsh is also ahead of Daicos.

Another Pies fan shifting the goalposts when proven wrong

 

[South of the Yarra]

Just keep shifting the goalposts. Carlton have had a far harder draw than Collingwood so far especially in the last couple of months and he has still been polling. The coaches see the impact Walsh has and that's why they tag him when they can. Pretty simple really.

Anything on the score involvement stat...?

Score involvements rofl. Now I have heard it all. You do realise how a score involvement works. Let’s have a look at actual impact on the scoreboard not the Dusty Martin designed score involvements. How is Walsh going on average against Daics for goals and goal assists this year. He is getting smashed. Walsh is going at 0.4 a game for goals and 0.5 for assists. Pathetic. Look at his meters gained. 425m, I can’t stop laughing at that stat. Score involvements oh my.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Cheer up my fellow Blues the Pies should be out of the eight later on.

 

[carlton_99]

Score involvements rofl. Now I have heard it all. You do realise how a score involvement works. Let’s have a look at actual impact on the scoreboard not the Dusty Martin designed score involvements. How is Walsh going on average against Daics for goals and goal assists this year. He is getting smashed. Walsh is going at 0.4 a game for goals and 0.5 for assists. Pathetic. Look at his meters gained. 425m, I can’t stop laughing at that stat. Score involvements oh my.

Minimises score involvements as a stat and then uses metres gained which is by far the most meaningless player stat in the game. Genuinely cringe when I hear it in footy discourse.

And yes Daicos averages 0.3 more goal assists per game. Congratulations to him. I just find it odd that a player that is not damaging gets tagged when a team can tag him and is recognised by coaches consistently in the votes.

 

[Arr0w]

Looks like we have another goatie thread, yet still not in the conversation

Back to the OP, each week its looking more like Carlton, glorious

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I think Collingwood have an awful tough run of games coming up.

This is a bit like a 99 ice cream melting in the sun. It's only going to go further south from here!

 

[Fadge]

And yet Sam Walsh is second in the AFL behind Isaac Heeney for coaches votes per game in 2024 despite a disrupted pre-season.

Let's see if that remains the case after this week's games...

 

[JustaBattler]

Hang on.

So we can equate betting odds with probability now?

JustaBattler - do you have anything to say about this?

Just the usual Fudgey - I didn't invent statistics so I stick with the textbook stuff.

Odds are a 'market' clearing mechanism for speculation - probability is not a 'market' - even though common (lay) usage of the word sees people falling into the error of failing to see the difference.

There is no bid/ask spread with probability theory.

 

[Fadge]

Or another thread -
"Collingwood - why do we continue to give away 1st and 2nd round selections for schmuks?"

Wowee.

Reigning premiers don't know how to use their draft picks.

Imagine how much better than the opposition we'd be if they were used wisely?

 

[carlton_99]

Let's see if that remains the case after this week's games...

Even if he isn't he is still going to be amongst the top few. Pretty impressive given he had a disrupted pre-season

 

[Worm4]

Wowee.

Reigning premiers don't know how to use their draft picks.

Imagine how much better than the opposition we'd be if they were used wisely?

Serious question - are you satisfied with collingwoods current draft hand ?

 

[raskolnikov]

Does this make GWS a top 8 team?



asking for a friend

Crows win today and we've beaten two top 8 teams.

 

[Fadge]

Just the usual Fudgey - I didn't invent statistics so I stick with the textbook stuff.

Odds are a 'market' clearing mechanism for speculation - probability is not a 'market' - even though common (lay) usage of the word sees people falling into the error of failing to see the difference.

There is no bid/ask spread with probability theory.

So why don't you have a crack at your Carlton friend for suggesting as much?

And... what is the probability of Carlton missing the top 8 from here, if it's not 1% to 2% (to cover agencies' margins?

 

[Fadge]

Serious question - are you satisfied with collingwoods current draft hand ?

Far too early to tell.

We've been too bust contending for and winning premierships over the last couple of seasons for too many of them to get an opportunity.

Though we have seen 9 debutants so far this year and many of them have shown they will have what it takes to make it at the level, to complement our existing young to middle aged core.