Banter Who will be better in 2025, Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

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Who will be better in 2025

  • Carlton

  • Collingwood

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Mr Meow said:
This is laughable. Carlton's collapse and demise preceded players going down in the Hawthorn game they were already losing (the injury run was only huge from there). Using injuries as THE primary factor in Carlton underperforming in 2024 is really, really poor form.
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Geez footy fans have short memories.

We had 15 on the injury list by Rd7, by rd10 it was still 14.

We were pushing shit uphill from there.

Did a ridiculous training load through to R0 and it cooked us. It was why we sacked our ‘highly regarded’ fitness boss.
 
CarmenSandiego said:
Geez footy fans have short memories.

We had 15 on the injury list by Rd7, by rd10 it was still 14.

We were pushing shit uphill from there.

Did a ridiculous training load through to R0 and it cooked us. It was why we sacked our ‘highly regarded’ fitness boss.
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Look at this.

More excuses.

Or should I say.... 'more of the same excuses'...
 

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Fadge said:
Hang on....

Cox is suddenly now more important than the likes of Murphy, Grundy and Adams... after Carlton supporters have spent the last 10 years bagging the shite out of him?
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According to Collingwood fans (who know their players better than me), Cox is one of your most important players, no?
 
Fadge said:
Look at this.

More excuses.

Or should I say.... 'more of the same excuses'...
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Nah just educating people who have very short memories.

Our injury crisis started well before the Hawthorn game - as well documented throughout the year.

However, it wasn’t THE primary reason for our poor year. It was also self-inflicted with a ridiculous training program.

I’d say a combination of poor coaching & poor injury management were the main reasons of our capitulation.

Unlike you, I don’t use injuries as an excuse.
 
CarmenSandiego said:
None of those players were important as Pendlebury (37), Sidebottom (34), Howe (35), Elliott (33), Cox (34) - that’s your senior core right there and they’re way past their best.

You managed to bounce back off the back of 3x F/S (one of which is generational), and an NGA player.

It’s not apples for apples.
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Agree it aint apples for apples, as Adams (BnF in 2020), Grundy, Mayne, Roughead were all top 10 in the BnF in 2020 or 2021...they were part of the senior core that went deep in finals in 2018-20, and we replaced them just fine.

Howe, Cox and Elliott aint even been top 10 in the BnF in last two years, so will be even easier to replace...

Pies consistently turn over our list by attracting quality senior players who immediately make an impact - whilst also adding the few speculative kids via the draft.

We are just following the same method, where we value a strong senior core over speculative youth.
 

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The old pies players listed are all replaceable in their respective roles the only thing they'll miss when they retire is the leadership they bring especially Pendlebury. Pies are clearly solely focused on recycling players and going after free agents which will reboost the list if we find a couple youngsters in the process even better. Carlton supporters can't understand this concept they think it's draft or bust they haven't learnt anything over the past couple of decades.
 
black is White said:
The old pies players listed are all replaceable in their respective roles the only thing they'll miss when they retire is the leadership they bring especially Pendlebury. Pies are clearly solely focused on recycling players and going after free agents which will reboost the list if we find a couple youngsters in the process even better. Carlton supporters can't understand this concept they think it's draft or bust they haven't learnt anything over the past couple of decades.
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The team that has taken one top 25 pick to the draft since the start of 2020 is in "draft or bust" mode?
 
Corn Cobbers said:
What a ridiculous trade haul, out of nothing

How do we do it?

Should really be flag favourites now
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You would absolutely hope so after what you’ve given up the past few years.

If you don’t even make top 4 and just make up the numbers it’s an epic failure.
 
Fadge said:
I'm still waiting to hear from Carlton supporters as to who their club is targeting with Pick 4, who will undoubtedly be a better player that picks 12 and 14 combined?

Or, Pick 12 and next year's first and second round picks...

Does this bring back memories of the Liam Stocker trade for anyone?
Click to expand...

I believe they’ll pick Fin O’Sullivan, nice Irish name just like Patty Dow.


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doppleganger said:
Agree it aint apples for apples, as Adams (BnF in 2020), Grundy, Mayne, Roughead were all top 10 in the BnF in 2020 or 2021...they were part of the senior core that went deep in finals in 2018-20, and we replaced them just fine.

Howe, Cox and Elliott aint even been top 10 in the BnF in last two years, so will be even easier to replace...

Pies consistently turn over our list by attracting quality senior players who immediately make an impact - whilst also adding the few speculative kids via the draft.

We are just following the same method, where we value a strong senior core over speculative youth.
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Shhh.

Don't give away our secrets....
 
CarmenSandiego said:
You would absolutely hope so after what you’ve given up the past few years.

If you don’t even make top 4 and just make up the numbers it’s an epic failure.
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Yep.

Imagine having such a strong list that if you don't make Top 4, it's seen as a failure?

We know Carlton are afraid to do that - they can't cope with the pressure...
 
carlton_99 said:
The team that has taken one top 25 pick to the draft since the start of 2020 is in "draft or bust" mode?
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I didn't say Carlton are in draft or bust mode I said Carlton supporters think that's where Collingwood's list is at and it isn't. After Carlton tanked for picks in the mid 2000's and they are still nowhere near better off for it I would hope for your sake Carlton fans don't want to rely on the draft. Probably why they are so desperate to convince Collingwood supporters we need to go hard in the draft or be down for decade's because they know going to the draft isn't the best way forward and they are worried we will continue on our merry way.
 
black is White said:
I didn't say Carlton are in draft or bust mode I said Carlton supporters think that's where Collingwood's list is at and it isn't. After Carlton tanked for picks in the mid 2000's and they are still nowhere near better off for it I would hope for your sake Carlton fans don't want to rely on the draft. Probably why they are so desperate to convince Collingwood supporters we need to go hard in the draft or be down for decade's because they know going to the draft isn't the best way forward and they are worried we will continue on our merry way.
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No one has said Collingwood need to be in draft or bust mode. But you will need to bring in some younger players in at some point and with Tasi bringing with it a few years of highly compromised drafts it will likely need to be soon.
 
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carlton_99 said:
No one has said Collingwood need to be in draft or bust mode. But you will need to bring in some younger players in at some point and with Tasi bringing with it a few years of highly compromised draft it will likely need to be soon.
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What is wrong with continuing to bring in 22-28 year olds who are proven quality AFL players and getting 5-10 years of strong output from them?

You dont get any extra wins if you are younger.
 
doppleganger said:
What is wrong with continuing to bring in 22-28 year olds who are proven quality AFL players and getting 5-10 years of strong output from them?

You dont get any extra wins if you are younger.
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To continuously bring in 22-28 year olds you need picks and lots of them (which you won't have if a team is doing well) or you go via free agency and it costs more salary wise. It's not one strategy or the other - a balance of both the draft and recruits from other clubs is required. Sydney have done it, Cats have started doing it now, Hawks did it, Tigers did it etc
 
Fadge said:
Yep.

Imagine having such a strong list that if you don't make Top 4, it's seen as a failure?

We know Carlton are afraid to do that - they can't cope with the pressure...
Click to expand...

What? We recruited Williams, Saad & Cerra. We’ve gone out of our way to put pressure on ourselves.

There were plenty of ladder predictions with Carlton being the top 4 at the start of the year.
 
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