Banter Who will be better in 2025, Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[Scritchyscroony]

Yeah man, I'm just as bad as fudge.

View attachment 2148724

I notice you there on the list.
We all need to get a life mate if that's how you think.
As I said. Pot Kettle.

 

[Fadge]

Are you over complicating it?
Carlton say they are contenders in the window. They genuinely believe they can draft the next Joel Sellwood who can come in and impact from year 1.
So we can assess success or failure at the end of year 1, year 2, 3 etc.
The comparison could be based on player ratings in seniors matches for simplicity.
So in year 1 for Carlton it's picks 3 rating V's the ratings of Owies, Kennedy, pick 12 pick 14. In year 2 it's pick 3 vs ratings for Owies, Kennedy, 12, 14, and 2025 1st & 2nd. Etc.
For Collingwood it's player ratings for Schultz and Houston v. Ratings for Pick 10, 13, 36 at the end of each year.

And you reckon I'm overcomplicating it...

 

[Robertio]

Are you over complicating it?
Carlton say they are contenders in the window. They genuinely believe they can draft the next Joel Sellwood who can come in and impact from year 1.
So we can assess success or failure at the end of year 1, year 2, 3 etc.
The comparison could be based on player ratings in seniors matches for simplicity.
So in year 1 for Carlton it's picks 3 rating V's the ratings of Owies, Kennedy, pick 12 pick 14. In year 2 it's pick 3 vs ratings for Owies, Kennedy, 12, 14, and 2025 1st & 2nd. Etc.
For Collingwood it's player ratings for Schultz and Houston v. Ratings for Pick 10, 13, 36 at the end of each year.

 

[carlton_99]

Are you over complicating it?
Carlton say they are contenders in the window. They genuinely believe they can draft the next Joel Sellwood who can come in and impact from year 1.
So we can assess success or failure at the end of year 1, year 2, 3 etc.
The comparison could be based on player ratings in seniors matches for simplicity.
So in year 1 for Carlton it's picks 3 rating V's the ratings of Owies, Kennedy, pick 12 pick 14. In year 2 it's pick 3 vs ratings for Owies, Kennedy, 12, 14, and 2025 1st & 2nd. Etc.
For Collingwood it's player ratings for Schultz and Houston v. Ratings for Pick 10, 13, 36 at the end of each year.

There is so much wrong with this but let's focus on the part where you think we traded 12, 14, F1, F2, Kennedy and Owies for pick 3. Can you tell me at what point in the trade period we had all of these picks and players to give in one trade?

 

[adammania9]

All 3 major betting agencies in the country have Carlton and Collingwood neck and neck . Wonder why ?

Interesting. Per this article posted in January 2023, Collingwood and Carlton were both $10 to win the 2023 premiership

Early 2023 odds for AFL Premiership, Brownlow, Rising Star + more

Who will take out the biggest honours in 2023?

www.sen.com.au

 

[Scritchyscroony]

There is so much wrong with this but let's focus on the part where you think we traded 12, 14, F1, F2, Kennedy and Owies for pick 3. Can you tell me at what point in the trade period we had all of these picks and players to give in one trade?

At the point that you had 12, 14 and your F1 and F2? Everything you did from that point was to get pick 3 wasn't it?
Feel free to provide info, make suggestions rather than just critique and ask more questions.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

We need to include the player ratings for Noble and Richards too.

 

[carlton_99]

At the point that you had 12, 14 and your F1 and F2? Everything you did from that point was to get pick 3 wasn't it?
Feel free to provide info, make suggestions rather than just critique and ask more questions.

At no point did we have 12, 14, F1 and F2 at the same time. Our F1 and F2 were used to get 14. So you are essentially counting the same pick twice. In reality to get 3 we gave up 12, F1 and F2. Owies got us a pick upgrade for the Campo twins as part of it. Kennedy was unrelated to the deal for 3.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

At no point did we have 12, 14, F1 and F2 at the same time. Our F1 and F2 were used to get 14. So you are essentially counting the same pick twice. In reality to get 3 we gave up 12, F1 and F2. Owies got us a pick upgrade for the Campo twins as part of it. Kennedy was unrelated to the deal for 3.

Oh yeah my bad.
So just 12 and 14 v. Pick 3 this year then for Carlton
And
Picks 10, 36, 13, 36 compared to Houston and Schultz for the pies.
Don't need Noble or Richards included.

Jeez I've butchered this! Shoulda just listened to Fadge

 

[Fadge]

Interesting. Per this article posted in January 2023, Collingwood and Carlton were both $10 to win the 2023 premiership

Early 2023 odds for AFL Premiership, Brownlow, Rising Star + more

Who will take out the biggest honours in 2023?

www.sen.com.au

I'm hanging out for the finals odds to be available.

Parlay Collingwood to make them into Carlton to miss and quadruple your money

 

[carlton_99]

Jeez I've butchered this! Shoulda just listened to Fadge

Don't worry Damian Barrett did the same thing in his if/then article this week. At least you aren't being paid to get this stuff right like Barrett is

 

[Robertio]

Don't worry Damian Barrett did the same thing in his if/then article this week. At least you aren't being paid to get this stuff right like Barrett is

He is Damian Barrett.

 

[carlton_99]

He is Damian Barrett.

I wouldn't say that about my worst enemy

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Why is it so crazy to think pick 3 will make an impact?

First year players make an impact all the time.

Walsh, Daicos, Reid, JHF, Jackson, Weitering, Serong, Ashcroft.

Ollie Hollands filled a spot pretty seamlessly last year. Shit even Jaidyn Stephenson

2

Jaidyn Stephenson

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.4

5star

was elite for the Pies in that 2018 year.

 

[Fadge]

Why is it so crazy to think pick 3 will make an impact?

First year players make an impact all the time.

Walsh, Daicos, Reid, JHF, Jackson, Weitering, Serong, Ashcroft.

Ollie Hollands filled a spot pretty seamlessly last year. Shit even Jaidyn Stephenson was elite for the Pies in that 2018 year.

OK.

Now list all the first year players that didn't make an impact:
1. In their first year, and
2. At all.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

OK.

Now list all the first year players that didn't make an impact:
1. In their first year, and
2. At all.

This outlook is such a loser mentality.

It's like clubs not bothering going for the flag because only 1 team out of 17 can win it.

You sound like a very risk averse person. I’m sure it’s served you well in life but for big sporting clubs, businesses etc., risks need to be taken and key decision makers need to back themselves if they’re going to go anywhere.

 

[Fadge]

This outlook is such a loser mentality.

It's like clubs not bothering going for the flag because only 1 team out of 17 can win it.

You sound like a very risk averse person. I’m sure it’s served you well in life but for big sporting clubs, businesses etc., risks need to be taken and key decision makers need to back themselves if they’re going to go anywhere.

Hang on....

Your Carlton supporting mates have spent the last week bagging Collingwood for 'taking the risk' that is trading in 27 year old Dan Houston - avoiding the draft and throwing all of our eggs into the 2024 and 2025 baskets before all the 'old dudes' on Collingwood's list retire!

I'm a numbers man, and the numbers at Carlton say that with Cripps, Weitering, Curnow and McKay at their peak RIGHT NOW - now is the time to build the best team you possibly can. And it appeared you had the choice of picking up a ready made dual All-Australian in the prime of his career, or going chips in on an 18 year old who is rated as the 4th best player of his draft, who you surely can't expect to have as big an influence on your team as someone like Dan Houston would have in the immediate term?

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Hang on....

Your Carlton supporting mates have spent the last week bagging Collingwood for 'taking the risk' that is trading in 27 year old Dan Houston - avoiding the draft and throwing all of our eggs into the 2024 and 2025 baskets before all the 'old dudes' on Collingwood's list retire!

Yet you applaud that risk. Go figure.

I'm a numbers man, and the numbers at Carlton say that with Cripps, Weitering, Curnow and McKay at their peak RIGHT NOW - now is the time to build the best team you possibly can. And it appeared you had the choice of picking up a ready made dual All-Australian in the prime of his career, or going chips in on an 18 year old who is rated as the 4th best player of his draft, who you surely can't expect to have as big an influence on your team as someone like Dan Houston would have in the immediate term?

Cripps is 29, not 36. Weiteirng & McKay are 26, Curnow is 27. Given the longevity of todays players, they/we have time up our sleeve.

You really can't have it both ways. You can't sit there & say Collingwood are in a window with 10 of your best 22 over 30, whilst Carlton are running out of time with our 4 best players aged 26, 27 & 29.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

'im a numbers man, and the numbers tell me that the oldest list in the league going from 1st to 9th is simply nothing to worry about, age is just a number.. and numbers aren't the be all and end all... except for when i feel like they are'

 

[Fadge]

Yet you applaud that risk. Go figure.

Cripps is 29, not 36. Weiteirng & McKay are 26, Curnow is 27. Given the longevity of todays players, they/we have time up our sleeve.

You really can't have it both ways. You can't sit there & say Collingwood are in a window with 10 of your best 22 over 30, whilst Carlton are running out of time with our 4 best players aged 26, 27 & 29.

I absolutely applauded the risk Collingwood took, as I would have had Carlton picked up Houston.

I can have it both ways.

Collingwood have contended 2 of the past 3 years, and have further improved our list this off season.

Carlton haven't contended for a premiership for over two decades, and their playing list in 2025 is highly likely to be inferior to their 2024 playing list.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

I absolutely applauded the risk Collingwood took, as I would have had Carlton picked up Houston.

I can have it both ways.

Collingwood have contended 2 of the past 3 years, and have further improved our list this off season.

Carlton haven't contended for a premiership for over two decades, and their playing list in 2025 is highly likely to be inferior to their 2024 playing list.

Ohhh mate shut up - literally every year you say "CARLTON DIDN'T IMPROVE THEIR LIST SO HOW THEY GOING TO IMPROVE!!111'. This was your commentary about Acres post-2022:

Yep, 3 lost finals by a combined 12 points and it's because of Collingwood's 'invisible' key position players.



Yep, a player who can get his hands on the ball 40 times a game and feed it out to the likes of Jaicos, Naicos, De Goey, Pendles and Sidebottom won't improve Collingwood in the immediate term, nor a versatile KPP/Ruckman who can provide a great linkage marking option betwen our backline and forward line.

But Carlton picked up Blake flipping Acres and a couple of kids who can run sub 6 minute 2km time trials.

We went from 9th to 5th, on the back of Blake ****ing Acres!!!

You said similar about Elijah Hollands:

Can we expect Fantasia, Hollands and internal improvement to bridge the gap, whilst Collingwood are expecting their own internal improvement whilst adding Schulz in the forward line (the best list addition for either team)?

All signs are pointing to the status quo for 2024. Collingwood will be superior to Carlton, again.

You've now got Hollands in our top 15 & Shultz is a Temu version of Ginnivan.

You are absolutely clueless, and there are receipts everywhere. Thank god you do this anonymously, I mean seriously.

 

[bungalow_bill]

True, only turtles live that long

Greenland shark would be more accurate- a lifespan of up to 500 years.

 

[Worm4]

I'm hanging out for the finals odds to be available.

Parlay Collingwood to make them into Carlton to miss and quadruple your money

But you would have done something similar for 2024 and lost. Like any typical gambler we only hear about the wins , and never the losses.

 

[Worm4]

Ohhh mate shut up - literally every year you say "CARLTON DIDN'T IMPROVE THEIR LIST SO HOW THEY GOING TO IMPROVE!!111'. This was your commentary about Acres post-2022:



We went from 9th to 5th, on the back of Blake ****ing Acres!!!

You said similar about Elijah Hollands:


You've now got Hollands in our top 15 & Shultz is a Temu version of Ginnivan.

You are absolutely clueless, and there are receipts everywhere. Thank god you do this anonymously, I mean seriously.

Gold

 

[Worm4]

Hang on....

Your Carlton supporting mates have spent the last week bagging Collingwood for 'taking the risk' that is trading in 27 year old Dan Houston - avoiding the draft and throwing all of our eggs into the 2024 and 2025 baskets before all the 'old dudes' on Collingwood's list retire!

I'm a numbers man, and the numbers at Carlton say that with Cripps, Weitering, Curnow and McKay at their peak RIGHT NOW - now is the time to build the best team you possibly can. And it appeared you had the choice of picking up a ready made dual All-Australian in the prime of his career, or going chips in on an 18 year old who is rated as the 4th best player of his draft, who you surely can't expect to have as big an influence on your team as someone like Dan Houston would have in the immediate term?

I love how Houston is 27, yet cripps in 30 start of the season , in a lot of pies supporters posts . Cripps born in march, Houston 8 weeks later - like its some sort of age restriction for posters.
For the record, let's just call Houston 27 and cripp 29 and be done with it. Alternatively, during the start of 2025, let's call Houston 28 and cripps 30. No brainer to me
Or.....let's call Houston 27 and cripps 30 start of season like a bunch of clowns would to suit a crazy statistical list argument.