Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[carlton_99]

In his first final Newcombe had 35 disposals, 1 goal, 10 score involvements. Not sure finals impact is a reason to put Walsh ahead of Newc.

I rate Walsh really highly and am not claiming Newc or Day are way better players. They all belong in a similar tier of player at this stage.

It's not the reason it's a reason. And I never said they don't belong in a similar tier - I rate both Hawks players highly.

Walsh's finals series showed the impact he has in games that have mattered and that coupled with his floor being so high puts him ahead for me. And that's despite significant back injuries the last 2 years

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I had Carlton supporters crack a hissy fit in another thread because I rated Newcombe and Day ahead of Walsh - they weren't game enough to make the comment in this thread, where we'd have Hawthorn supporters weigh in on the discussion.

Sam Walsh is 24 years old and had an outstanding year in 2021 - 30 votes in the Brownlow Medal, and Carlton's best and fairest, and an outstanding 2023 finals series. However, he hasn't been able to recapture that 2021 form consistently since, acknowledging he has been hampered with various injury issues. Since 2021, he has polled 35 votes in 54 games in the Brownlow, and finished 3rd, 9th and 3rd in his club's best and fairest.

Jai Newcombe is 23 years old and polled 53 votes from 67 games in the Brownlow over the past 3 seasons, in a lesser team than Walsh for the first two seasons, and has finished 2nd, 2nd and 1st in his club best and fairest over the past 3 seasons. He is clearly ahead of Walsh going into 2025.

Will Day is not so clear cut, but he is also a year younger than Walsh and has proven his best football is up there with the best players in the competition. In his only near complete season - 2023 where he only missed two games, he won his club's best and fairest, and we all saw how much better he made his side in 2024 when he returned from injury.

I have no qualms in having more confidence in these two players producing greater output in 2025 than Walsh. If Walsh recaptures his best form and does it consistently, it could be a close contest, but I'm pretty confident with my ranking of Newcombe ahead of Day, who is ahead of Walsh.

Thoughts?

Always willing to make ridiculous statements and predictions but never willing to put anything at stake.
Just brainless trolling as always.

Neither Newcombe nor Day have reached the level Walsh has as individual players. All Australians, Gary Ayers, Coaches votes in a season, Brownlow votes in a season, Walsh has consistently been the better player throughout their careers.

All 3 are fantastic players but when they're all fit and playing at their best the two Hawthorn boys aren't on the same level.

Happy to back that if Walsh has a full pre season he's the best midfielder not named Cripps between the two teams in 2025.

 

[Obeanie1]

He would clearly and easily be the best mid at your club... Before even getting in to any other clubs. Also he isn't clearly our best, a fit Day is right alongside him.

So Newcombe and Harley are put up for trade.

Which one would teams want more?

Don't bother replying. Everyone knows the answer already.

Any other teams?

North. Sheezel.

Crows. Dawson.

Essendon. Merrett

Saints. Steele.

I'll let others continue.

 

[carlton_99]

There is no way known Walsh has been better than Newcombe over the past 2 or even 3 years. You're focussing your argument on Walsh's 2023 finals series - did you happen to see Newcombe's finals performances this year?

"There is no way known I'm wrong" is a great way to have the debate you wanted.

 

[adammania9]

So Newcombe and Harley are put up for trade.

Which one would teams want more?

Don't bother replying. Everyone knows the answer already.

Any other teams?

North. Sheezel.

Crows. Dawson.

Essendon. Merrett

Saints. Steele.

I'll let others continue.

You just asked a different question. You didn’t ask which player has the highest trade value.

Newcombe would be West Coast’s, Richmond’s and St Kilda’s best midfielder. Probably Geelong’s and touch and go with Gold Coast and GWS.

 

[Iceman!]

So Newcombe and Harley are put up for trade.

Which one would teams want more?

Don't bother replying. Everyone knows the answer already.

Any other teams?

North. Sheezel.

Crows. Dawson.

Essendon. Merrett

Saints. Steele.

I'll let others continue.

Do not shift the narrative, you said who is a better player. Newc is much much much better at this point. In a couple years who knows.

Suns, Cats, Richmond as well he would be in the discussion at the very least. I would say he is very close to Steele, Sheezel Dawson on current form as well. Steele and Dawson have more runs on the board probably.

 

[Fadge]

Always willing to make ridiculous statements and predictions but never willing to put anything at stake.
Just brainless trolling as always.

Neither Newcombe nor Day have reached the level Walsh has as individual players. All Australians, Gary Ayers, Coaches votes in a season, Brownlow votes in a season, Walsh has consistently been the better player throughout their careers.

All 3 are fantastic players but when they're all fit and playing at their best the two Hawthorn boys aren't on the same level.

Happy to back that if Walsh has a full pre season he's the best midfielder not named Cripps between the two teams in 2025.

You're referring to a one-off season that happened in 2021 - using plurals 'All Australians' when he's only done it once.

As has been pointed out, you can't use Walsh's 2023 finals performances as a differentiator between Walsh and Newcombe, given Newcombe's finals performances in 2024.

4 seasons is a long time ago, and on the body of work we have seen since then, both Newcombe and Day have been better performed, despite being younger, and I'm taking them both ahead of Walsh going into 2025.

 

[Obeanie1]

You just asked a different question. You didn’t ask which player has the highest trade value.

Newcombe would be West Coast’s, Richmond’s and St Kilda’s best midfielder. Probably Geelong’s and touch and go with Gold Coast and GWS.

Harley has already shown he will be a better mid than Newcombe.

Likely already is.

Trade value is a decent indicator of talent isn't it?

Newcombe would likely be Richmond's best midfielder right now as Taranto and Hopper had down years in 2024. If Taranto and Hopper had injury free uninterrupted seasons there wouldn't be that much separating them from Newcombe's output. All three can rack it up. Taranto more damaging in the forward half. Hopper a similar accumulator at the coal face doing the heavy lifting.

 

[WilloTree]

Tough one. Calton's list should have had them Prelims this year and a shot at the Premiership in 2025. Injuries and Crazy Vossy aside, they should still be on track for top 4.

Hawks have a better coach and are heading toward the stratosphere according to Vic media. Top 4 wouldn't surprise either.

I'll go with Carlton, but it's line ball.

 

[Obeanie1]

Do not shift the narrative, you said who is a better player. Newc is much much much better at this point. In a couple years who knows.

Suns, Cats, Richmond as well he would be in the discussion at the very least. I would say he is very close to Steele, Sheezel Dawson on current form as well. Steele and Dawson have more runs on the board probably.

Suns have Anderson, Rowell and Miller.

All three would be the equal to Newcombe in output.

Cats. He may just pip Dangerfield due to age. And the other Geelong mids are either younger developing mids or old on their last legs. They only just picked up Bailey Smith who is well up there in quality if he can regain his form pre ACL.

 

[adammania9]

Harley has already shown he will be a better mid than Newcombe.

Likely already is.

Trade value is a decent indicator of talent isn't it?

Newcombe would likely be Richmond's best midfielder right now as Taranto and Hopper had down years in 2024. If Taranto and Hopper had injury free uninterrupted seasons there wouldn't be that much separating them from Newcombe's output. All three can rack it up. Taranto more damaging in the forward half. Hopper a similar accumulator at the coal face doing the heavy lifting.

Newcombe is definitely a better than player than Reid right now. Probably will be next season. 2026 could be Reid, but Newcombe continues to grow at an upward trajectory too. Both could be top 10 mids in the comp at their peak.

2021 was Hopper's last season of note. Newcombe clears him considerably these days. Taranto is a fine player, but Newcombe is cleaner and their scoreboard output is surprisingly similar (25 goals vs 23 in favour of Taranto in the last two years) granted Newcombe has played more footy.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Newcombe needs more consistency in his game IMO.

He is big but not quick.

And he is the Hawks #1 mid.

How many other clubs would he be the #1 mid?

I would suggest none. Will be interested in Hawks fans thoughts on where he ranks compared to other clubs. And the Lols I will put in the 'yep I have nothing" column.

No surprise who the first lol was from.

So Lad which other club is Newcombe the #1 mid at?

You're underrating Newcombe IMO.

I'm not going to try and make an argument you'll likely view as biased so instead will refer to neutral league wide awards.

Newcombe finished 10th in the Brownlow

He also received the 9th most coaches votes in 2024.

He also received the most votes per game in finals in 2024.

If you you look at both lists, at least 8 teams had 0 players finish ahead of Newcombe in either award, let alone both (Geel, North, Ess, Melb, StK, Ade, Rich, WC).

 

[Iceman!]

Harley has already shown he will be a better mid than Newcombe.

Likely already is.

Trade value is a decent indicator of talent isn't it?

Newcombe would likely be Richmond's best midfielder right now as Taranto and Hopper had down years in 2024. If Taranto and Hopper had injury free uninterrupted seasons there wouldn't be that much separating them from Newcombe's output. All three can rack it up. Taranto more damaging in the forward half. Hopper a similar accumulator at the coal face doing the heavy lifting.

The bolded is just ridiculous

Mentioning Hopper anywhere near Newcombe is just as ridiculous.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You're referring to a one-off season that happened in 2021 - using plurals 'All Australians' when he's only done it once.

As has been pointed out, you can't use Walsh's 2023 finals performances as a differentiator between Walsh and Newcombe, given Newcombe's finals performances in 2024.

4 seasons is a long time ago, and on the body of work we have seen since then, both Newcombe and Day have been better performed, despite being younger, and I'm taking them both ahead of Walsh going into 2025.

Do you have any statistics to back this up? Are just more of the 'vibe'. Statistically Walsh is miles ahead of both.