Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[Sixpence]

Threadbans for WalshistheGOAT and Dewyyyy would go a long way to making this thread worth reading.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I think some Hawthorn fans are getting a little bit carried away. The Hawks have a good young team coming together, but the element of surprise is gone this year.

I think they might go backwards a bit this year, but time will tell as to if i'm right i guess! They were a team that did overachieve last year imo.

 

[peetoo]

I think some Hawthorn fans are getting a little bit carried away. The Hawks have a good young team coming together, but the element of surprise is gone this year.

I think they might go backwards a bit this year, but time will tell as to if i'm right i guess! They were a team that did overachieve last year imo.

True, but offset by hawks strengthening with mature options and carlton trading some away

 

[peetoo]

On posters

Good = eg good debate probably too close to call but let’s chat anyway it’s off season
Bad = eg xxx clearly better than yyy who are over achieving right now

Thinking back to 2022 2023 if you looke at who these teams beat and who beat them, they were equally inept.

The ‘good carlton’ may only be 12-18 months advanced on the ‘good hawthorn’

 

[threesixpio]

Tbh getting 'revenge' on Hawthorn would be about 6th down on my list of matches to look forward to next year. Other than being an obnoxiously arrogant team atm they haven't really done anything I'd consider worthy of getting revenge for.

A random shellacking in the middle of an end of year capitulation by the Blues? Was more infuriated watching the game vs the Roos around the same time and we ended up winning that lol.

Yep. I can understand that you don’t have much interest in Hawthorn. You’d probably have bigger rivals in the comp

 

[TheFourPillars]

Let's just put one thing to bed in this thread. The Hawks didn't play above their capabilities. Physically impossible to do that. As far as this year is concerned if they play to the same level they will fall down the ladder. Hawthorn need to improve and I think they will given our trade period and natural improvement in our group. Carlton rely heavily on their stars. They do have genuine stars let's see if they can carry them through the season. They are right in it for more finals given their stars

 

[JustaBattler]

Hawthorn have improved their defensive depth - get another pre-season into their younger players and more time to develp team game. Coaching staff arent short of smarts either. So defense stronger and more options for Mitchell to deploy blokes like Sicily forward or back - big ticks.

Carlton have as many if not more younger kids still developing and a history of discontinuity because of injury in my mind slowing team cohesion and development down ..

Assuming average levels of injury - to either team - should be close games - I give Carlton the edge between the arcs- and Hawthorn the edge in ball movement.

As for season results ttoo many variables for this tiny brain to sove for - both shoudl play finals.

Toss a coin.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I think some Hawthorn fans are getting a little bit carried away. The Hawks have a good young team coming together, but the element of surprise is gone this year.

I think they might go backwards a bit this year, but time will tell as to if i'm right i guess! They were a team that did overachieve last year imo.

Outside of a mentality side, of not having the surprise element and being hunted more. When you look at Hawthorn on paper it is a top 8 side, with the upside of a top 4 side. It’s lacking in areas but has coverage especially till the injured players return. A strong backline in 2024 with further quality additions, a young midfield continuing to grow and a good crop of small forwards.

There is a clear lack of key forwards with Lewis and Dear injured, however likely coverage with players able to rotate forward and others like young Scaife and Ramsden who like Dear weren’t proven but will probably get an opportunity to, and Chol/Gunston.

It comes down to a group mentality and drive which seems strong, and it’s only a wait and see but as Kane Cornes said it’s a hard team to pick with how strong the depth looks and on paper it looks like a strong side. The only assumption that can be made is through the side on paper, and performance of last season. There will be an aspect of a young group, mentality and how they handle it, but it can’t be the only perspective. It’s an interesting piece.

Carlton have proved to be a quality team but also have clear gaps, and there could be a massive improvement if the gameplan changes to suit modern footy. It’ll give more opportunities for the bottom rung of players to improve and be more involved and a faster game style will also give them a different look. If that is a way they can develop and improve.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Already Carlton is having some bad luck with injuries and i just think Hawthorn were a flash in the pan last year and had no right to finish where they did with that young list. i think it might be a case of a few steps back this year. a handful of youngsters will cop the 2nd year blues and teams will be more aware of the Hawks.

Even if we to go along with your hopes that a handful of youngsters could have the second year blues, that could only really be Dear and Watson? Who else?

 

[JPetro83]

Even if we to go along with your hopes that a handful of youngsters could have the second year blues, that could only really be Dear and Watson? Who else?

Im sorry, i just hate the Hawks and really im just hoping to see them slide

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Based on that Watson mark alone

Hawks Premiers

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Im sorry, i just hate the Hawks and really im just hoping to see them slide

I know, that’s why I asked.

 

[hawkman]

Based on that Watson mark alone

Hawks Premiers

 

[threesixpio]

One handed grab of the flag. We all know it. Give it to us now. Season over

 

[NetworkNerd]

The 2025 version of Andrew Walker wearing a hat?

 

[HawthornHawk]

Even if we to go along with your hopes that a handful of youngsters could have the second year blues, that could only really be Dear and Watson? Who else?

Second year blues of the gameplan which will obviously be found out!! Teams will actually scout the Hawks this year haven't you heard!?

 

[Red_man2008]

Carlton have the worst small forwards in the league.
They haven't had a genuine quality small forward since Eddie Betts retired.

4th best forward line in terms of scoring in 2024. That’s with many games missed by Curnow and McKay and others (Fogarty, Motlop, Williams). I’d hate to think how good it could get with Motlop and Moir showing up in 2025. From all reports they are currently training really well.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

4th best forward line in terms of scoring in 2024. That’s with many games missed by Curnow and McKay and others (Fogarty, Motlop, Williams). I’d hate to think how good it could get with Motlop and Moir showing up in 2025. From all reports they are currently training really well.

We still do have some horrid small forwards. If Moir Williams and Motlop have an impact in 2025 we'd be hard to stop.

That said I'm not banking on that actually transpiring.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

We still do have some horrid small forwards. If Moir Williams and Motlop have an impact in 2025 we'd be hard to stop.

That said I'm not banking on that actually transpiring.

The thing on your side is Motlop and Moir are young.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Second year blues of the gameplan which will obviously be found out!! Teams will actually scout the Hawks this year haven't you heard!?

Yes, this was why we wouldn’t play finals in 2024 too.

 

[threesixpio]

We still do have some horrid small forwards. If Moir Williams and Motlop have an impact in 2025 we'd be hard to stop.

That said I'm not banking on that actually transpiring.

It’s a weakness really if we are being honest. Likewise I can say our talls are an issue

 

[threesixpio]

Yes, this was why we wouldn’t play finals in 2024 too.

I think people underestimate Sammy if they think he won’t tweak or anticipate the hunt. This thread is missing the Voss vs Sammy angle in a rather significant way imo.

 

[threesixpio]

Sammy = inspired genius

Vossy = my all time favourite player of the early 2000s and a slightly interesting version of a coach

 

[RCAB]

I think people underestimate Sammy if they think he won’t tweak or anticipate the hunt. This thread is missing the Voss vs Sammy angle in a rather significant way imo.

I think a lot of us Hawthorn supporters know there will be changes to our game plan this year, which could potentially set us back but could also be very beneficial in the long term.

Some natural improvement from our younger players is likely, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the cohesiveness of the team will improve.

The main issue I see with Carlton is their reductive and simplistic way of looking at their trajectory.

They essentially reduce everything to, “Well, we were injured last year, we’ve added one or two pieces, and now we’ll be much better and win the premiership,” with no real discussion about how they’ll address their game plan, which was a massive Achilles heel last year.

They’re in for a rude awakening.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I think a lot of us Hawthorn supporters know there will be changes to our game plan this year, which could potentially set us back but could also be very beneficial in the long term.

Some natural improvement from our younger players is likely, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the cohesiveness of the team will improve.

The main issue I see with Carlton is their reductive and simplistic way of looking at their trajectory.

They essentially reduce everything to, “Well, we were injured last year, we’ve added one or two pieces, and now we’ll be much better and win the premiership,” with no real discussion about how they’ll address their game plan, which was a massive Achilles heel last year.

They’re in for a rude awakening.

Tell us, what was wrong with our game plan?