Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

Who will be better in 2025

  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 155 68.9%
  • Carlton

    Votes: 70 31.1%

  • Total voters
    225

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All more reason to be confident in Hawthorn improving in 2025.

Sicily and Day, two of the Hawks most talented players, both had average seasons in 2024.

Lewis, their best KPF, couldn't get on the park.

Plus they add two quality defenders (top 6 players from respective clubs) in Battle and Barrass.

And then the "growth" from their kids.
Moore Ramsden MacDonald
Watson Chol Ginnivan

Breust


Not exactly a forward line that instils a lot of fear when I look at it on paper. Blues have some shocking small forwards but even then I'd back our forward line to hit the scoreboard more than them if Dear and Lewis are still out for a significant amount of the season.
 
Do tell us Fadge... How does Hardwick compare to Saad? Let me guess, Hardwick a miles better player?
Put it this way...

I don't remember Saad influencing a game of footy more than Hardwick did in the first Hawthorn v. Collingwood match in 2024, when Hardwick was switched to the forward line and nearly won the game off his own boot.

Yep, I'm taking Hardwick.
 

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I think hardwick or saad poll might be interesting from neutral supporters. As hawthorn supporter dimma is one of the first picked
Hardwick has had five top5 BnFs for the Hawks, including a 2nd in 2018 as a 21 yr old in a top 4 team and a 4th in 2024...pretty obvious why he is one of the first picked.

But Carlton fans love going "woof" and pretending it is still 2022 (the last year when Saad was actually a real quality player).

For 2025 a no brainer to take Dimma who is in his prime over Saad who is over 30 and hasn't played great footy for a couple of years now.
 
And Sicily didn't finish in the top 10 of the Hawthorn BnF. Must mean there were at least 180 players better than him in 2024!
Sicily dislocated his shoulder twice(missing games) and played out out the year with one arm.

What’s Saad’s excuse?
 
Hardwick has had five top5 BnFs for the Hawks, including a 2nd in 2018 as a 21 yr old in a top 4 team and a 4th in 2024...pretty obvious why he is one of the first picked.

But Carlton fans love going "woof" and pretending it is still 2022 (the last year when Saad was actually a real quality player).

For 2025 a no brainer to take Dimma who is in his prime over Saad who is over 30 and hasn't played great footy for a couple of years now.
Put it this way...

I don't remember Saad influencing a game of footy more than Hardwick did in the first Hawthorn v. Collingwood match in 2024, when Hardwick was switched to the forward line and nearly won the game off his own boot.

Yep, I'm taking Hardwick.
You blokes are hilarious :tearsofjoy:
 
Sicily dislocated his shoulder twice(missing games) and played out out the year with one arm.

What’s Saad’s excuse?
You clearly haven't read my posts.

I am pointing out how ridiculous it is to compare players from different teams based on BnF results for their respective clubs. Using that logic, there would have been 180+ players that are better than Sicily currently because he didn't finish top 10 in his club's BnF which I think is absurd.
 
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BnF the obvious start where you may get a nod that Hardwick had a strong year.

2024 AFLCA votes Hardwick 21 Saad just 3
You said consistently better over their careers. Based on what? Coaches votes, Brownlow Votes, AA's, the incredible thing that is 'Statistics'?

What's Hardwick done that makes him better than Saad over their careers
 
Apologies, I must have been a bit delirious with joy after your Newman comment which proved the whole point I was making. Not often we agree on something - my hope in it ever happening was fading fast before tonight.
2023 Newman finished second in carltons b and f. That would make him equal to Nick for 2023 yeah ?
Love this logic ...
 
No you are. All Australian player Adam Saad has been consistently worse than Blake Hardwick over their careers :tearsofjoy:
Having 1 single AA team (also his only squad year) is a nod that his best was great...but is irrelevant when talking about consistent performance. He has not got close to his 2022 form in recent years.
Would you want 2022 Saad in a team, yep. But that was a single season that he hasn't reproduced and considering he is turning 31 in 2025 likelihood is you won't see him get back to that level.
And yes, Hardwick has had five top5 BnF finishes in 7 years since establishing himself in Hawks best 22. He has consistently been rated as the better player by his coaches and is still in his prime.
 
2023 Newman finished second in carltons b and f. That would make him equal to Nick for 2023 yeah ?
Love this logic ...
Poor Wormy...

Finishing 2nd BnF for the premier is better than finishing 2nd BnF for a non-top4 team.

We are talking 2024, where Hawks were the better performed team compared to Carlton.

Reckon most people would agree that a player who finished 4th in the BnF, and also had more AFLCA votes in a stronger team had a better season than a bloke who couldn't make top 10 in his own BnF for a team who was worse.
 
Poor Wormy...

Finishing 2nd BnF for the premier is better than finishing 2nd BnF for a non-top4 team.

We are talking 2024, where Hawks were the better performed team compared to Carlton.

Reckon most people would agree that a player who finished 4th in the BnF, and also had more AFLCA votes in a stronger team had a better season than a bloke who couldn't make top 10 in his own BnF for a team who was worse.
So stats are completely misleading. Glad we are all on the same page again. Newman 2024 better than any collingwood player , bar Nick.
 
Lets have a look at the comparison... Since 2016 - When Hardwick debuted in the AFL

Saad left vs Hardwick right

Player ratings:

2016 - 11.24 vs 1.30
2017 - 11.71 vs 6.94
2018 - 10.81 vs 9.10
2019 - 10.79 vs 8.41
2020 - 10.54 vs 7.30
2021 - 11.48 vs 9.57
2022 - 13.13 vs 8.22
2023 - 11.36 vs 9.79
2024 - 11.89 vs 9.52

Total:
102.94 vs 70.15

Average:
11.43 vs 7.79


Coaches votes:
2016 - 0 vs 0
2017 - 0 vs 1
2018 - 22 vs 10
2019 - 22 vs 5
2020 - 16 vs 0
2021 - 1 vs 8
2022 - 25 vs 14
2023 - 10 vs 10
20224 - 3 vs 21

Total:
99 vs 69

Average:
11 vs 7.66

Brownlow votes:

2016 - 0 vs 0
2017 - 1 vs 0
2018 - 3 vs 0
2019 - 0 vs 0
2020 - 2 vs 0
2021 - 0 vs 0
2022 - 3 vs 0
2023 - 3 vs 0
2024 - 0 vs 2

Total:
12 vs 2

Average:
1.33 vs 0.22

BnF results:

2016 - DnF vs DnF
2017 - 10th vs DnF
2018 - 4th vs 2nd
2019 - 3rd vs 5th
2020 - 3rd vs DnF
2021 - 6th vs 2nd
2022 - 6th vs 4th
2023 - 8th vs 8th
2024 - DnF vs 5th

Total:
Featured - 8 vs 6
Top 5 - 3 vs 5

All Australians:

Saad - 1

Hardwick - 0

All Australian Squads:

Saad - 1

Hardwick - 0
 
Pretty conclusive there I'd reckon. If we go to the classic footywire stat comparisons over their careers it's all coming up Saad again...

doppleganger would you like to consider the information above and tell me again, how Hardwick has had a better career than Saad?

Interesting that outside of one anomaly year in 2018 both players highest BnF finishes were when their teams have sucked ass... Just goes to show its far easier to finish high in a BnF if your team is rubbish.
 
So stats are completely misleading. Glad we are all on the same page again. Newman 2024 better than any collingwood player , bar Nick.
Oh Wormy...

Walsh stats aka "evidence" are misleading.

Hardwick doesn't play the same role that Saad does. Peak early 2020s Saad, was a 400m, 15 kick, 3 inside 50s, 5 rebound 50s, 7 HBR receive player who run and carried and created. That has never been Hardwick's game.

Of course a player who is used more offensively will have a better profile and stats to a player who stays deeper in more of a lock down role.
 
Lets have a look at the comparison... Since 2016 - When Hardwick debuted in the AFL
LOL
Hardwick is in his prime now.
Saad was in his prime 3-5 years ago.

Saad left vs Hardwick right

Coaches votes:
2021 - 1 vs 8
2022 - 25 vs 14
2023 - 10 vs 10
20224 - 3 vs 21
Clearly Hardwick the form player heading into 2025
BnF results:

2021 - 6th vs 2nd
2022 - 6th vs 4th
2023 - 8th vs 8th
2024 - DnF vs 5th
Hardwick again clearly consistently better in recent times.

One player dropping off, it happens when you get to 30.
All Australian Squads:

Saad - 1

Hardwick - 0
Yeah, Saad used to be good...he ain't been at that level for a couple of years.

Heading into 2025, you either take the bloke in his prime playing the better recent footy (Hardwick) or a 31 year old who was good when at Essendon before COVID.
 

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Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn


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