Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[carlton_99]

I was questioning the view that Sidey isnt a serious 2 way player in a similar mold to what Acres is. If you watch Sidey he has always tracked back deep into defence as a winger

I should note I never said he doesn't have defensive qualities I have just always thought his best role for the Pies was going forward due to his kicking and decision making. And yes I did notice he played a tagger-like role at the end of 24' and was quite effective at it. Will be interesting to see if Mcrae sticks with it for 25'

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Carlton have done an amazing job at bridging the 5 game gap by increasing the number of games won from 12 to 13 to 13 over three seasons.

Impressive.

It's almost as if they've reached their level and plateaued.

 

[Fadge]

Absolutely, the same metric that determines who plays finals, who gets the double chance and so on

What would Carlton supporters know about the double chance?

Nuffies.

 

[Mr Meow]

5/6 of the top Carlton contributors have made their opinions on your posting style fairly clear in here over the last 24 hours. I think its naive to think your comments are going to result in any sort of quality football related discussion with said posters because of how you've acted in the past.

Personally I don't see a point in discussing anything footy related with someone who deems a posters comments 'invalid' due to the footy team they support. Especially when the thread is about that very footy team.

Geez those are some poor comprehension skills. I provided the exact reasons for why I thought each statement was invalid, i.e lacking logic, facts and reasoning. It goes without saying that we are providing opinions and I have backed each of mine up. If that's not discussing football I'm not sure what is.

That particular poster has said things I disagree with and I have stated why that's the case. It doesn't have to turn into a moan-fest because of it.

 

[Mr Meow]

i agree, there isnt any great argument as to who to pick. I think it should be Acres

I was questioning the view that Sidey isnt a serious 2 way player in a similar mold to what Acres is. If you watch Sidey he has always tracked back deep into defence as a winger

These are the facts I was talking about.

Correcting falsehoods is all that occurred. Just like saying Holmes was a half back in 2023 or J.Kelly was at more than 50% of CBAs in 2024 and therefore wasn't a wingman. A lot of this stuff is pretty easy to look up. We still haven't had any kind of reasoning for why Acres has been a top 3 wingman in the comp besides a vague reference to defensive running and aerial ability. As if these other wingmen don't track back. It just doesn't hold up. So there's the aerial ability and that's it.

 

[carlton_99]

Carlton have done an amazing job at bridging the 5 game gap by increasing the number of games won from 12 to 13 to 13 over three seasons.

Impressive.

If you are analysing a five game gap on the ladder and whether it could be closed it is not just about whether Carlton could win 3-4 more games so they can rise five spots but also whether the Pies would drop off. So five spots on the ladder seems like a lot but a 1-2 game swing against the Pies and for the Blues is all it really takes for the gap to vanish especially with the competition as even as it is.

 

[Gone Critical]

I should note I never said he doesn't have defensive qualities I have just always thought his best role for the Pies was going forward due to his kicking and decision making. And yes I did notice he played a tagger-like role at the end of 24' and was quite effective at it. Will be interesting to see if Mcrae sticks with it for 25'

Apart from when he played a bit of forward in his early years Sidey has always been our 2 way mid/winger. Its not a question of whether he has defensive abilities or not. Like Acres defensive work has always been a strong feature of his game and something that sets him apart.

 

[carlton_99]

Apart from when he played a bit of forward in his early years Sidey has always been our 2 way mid/winger. Its not a question of whether he has defensive abilities or not. Like Acres defensive work has always been a strong feature of his game and something that sets him apart.

That all makes sense and I want to stress again that in no way am I trying to diminish Sidebottom with any of my points. I think he has been a great player over a long period of time and continues to have an impact today. But I do want to clarify a few points as I think they have been misconstrued by others.

Firstly, I never said that Sidebottom didn't have defensive abilities.

Secondly, none of my posts about Acres/Sidebottom in that conversation with Mr Meow have been in the context of the combined best 23 team which I didn't make. From the very start of this conversation I noted that I was talking about what Acres did for Carlton and comparing it to a situation where Sidebottom replaced Acres in the Carlton team over the last two years. That seems to have been ignored by others in the conversation. So to make it abundantly clear none of my posts were related to that best 23 team. The only thing I said about that team was that a) I thought that it was a good attempt at putting one together and b) I would have Acres in over Sidebottom on the wing unlike Fadge. Nothing about the gap being massive in that context.

If you have watched a lot of Carlton over the last two years you will see very clearly the impact Acres has on us winning games. His ability to get back and support his defence aerially is ridiculous. It's like he teleports from the wing to the goal line to save a goal three times a game. That defensive work will never show up in the stat sheet but it doesn't make it not real - it just won't be obvious to anyone that doesn't watch that player week in and week out. Collingwood supporters and supporters of every other team would say the same thing about certain players that may be underrated by opposition fans. That aerial work also is advantageous up forward where he has had some massive moments for us in big games including finals.

So if Sidebottom replaced Acres it's not like we don't gain anything. He has better foot skills and is a better decision maker with the ball but I think we lose a lot of that aerial work which for me is invaluable for the Carlton team. Especially, when you consider on the other wing we have had Ollie Hollands who is still very young and doesn't lack heart but does lack the size and strength to have the same impact.

Lastly, I just want to clarify one other thing which was in my last post I didn't mean I saw Sidebottom's best position as a forward. I just value his disposal and decision-making so highly I would want that going inside 50 rather than playing a more accountable role. Obviously with age his role will shift slightly so like I said above it will be really interesting to see whether he continues with that accountable tagger role or plays more in the forward half giving service to your talls.

 

[Worm4]

)What would Carlton supporters know about the double chance?

Nuffies.

8 flags to 3 over the past 65 years - we know more about the double chance than you indicate , nuffie
( curiously - what is the ledger since you were born ? - asking for a friend )

 

[Arr0w]

Carlton have done an amazing job at bridging the 5 game gap by increasing the number of games won from 12 to 13 to 13 over three seasons.

Impressive.

Wrong again, but you remain consistent

 

[Worm4]

Even the bookies think that Carlton have the worst depth in the league and will finish bottom 4

 

[JustaBattler]

And the "Reason" Carlton posters have to resort to "Excuses" all the time is because they're shit and they know it.

the reason I excuse posters like you is that I rolled the dice this morning and they ccame up saying "be forgiving of the forlorn" - lucky you...also I amsending Fudgey a littel book on (how to add and subtract)

 

[Fadge]

Unfortunately doesn't work like that Arr0w, trust me I've asked plenty of times. Im pretty sure Chief has even told him to feck off Carlton related threads because he causes mass thread derailings every time he joins in one and everyone just ends up telling him to bugger off. Not sure whether thats true or not though.

The truth hurts the poor little victimised Ubershizen Blooser supporters...

 

[Fadge]

Did you or did you not get told not to get involved in Carlton related threads for a period of time?

If that is the case, how pathetic....

 

[Fadge]

Who do you think had a better season?
Team A - finished 3rd on the ladder and won the flag
Team B - finished 1st on the ladder

What's this?

After we've been told ad nauseum over the last two months that the 'ladder doesn't lie' and the 'higher team is better'...

 

[Fadge]

But getting back to the thread, have we had the annual 'Fin Macrae breakout year' fluff pieces come out yet or are they a post Christmas tradition?

I saw Spud McInnes got a big pump up from Swoop Luke on the socials... Sounds like another dismal year is on the cards for the Pies if those two are the current standouts at pre season

Are these printed on the same websites and newspapers as the annual 'Carlton will finally be the real deal next year'?

 

[Robertio]

The truth hurts the poor little victimised Ubershizen Blooser supporters...

Seems the truth about Pies missing the eight hurt a few Pies supporters in here.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Who do you think had a better season?
Team A - finished 3rd on the ladder and won the flag
Team B - finished 1st on the ladder

Not my metric and not my measure. It is Carlton supporters who have stated if you finish higher you are better. And by the way if you count finals (which of course you should Collingwood have finished higher. than Carlton more). So, thank you to you as well for admitting Collingwood are the greatest club in history. Big admissions from Arr0w and carlton_99 that Collingwood are the greatest club in history. This has changed the fabric of this thread.

 

[Fadge]

All I'll ask before I put it behind me forever is this Meowbagger; If you know there's a great deal of Carlton fans in this very thread who consistently meet your involvement in the discussion with vitriol and animosity, why would you bother getting involved? You'd know this is what the result is going to be before you've even typed it out...

The thread is one of the most popular on the site and seems to run rather smoothly without your involvement, if the thread descends into petty insults and unrelated discussion every time you join in would it not be wiser for everyone involved to just do as Gordon Ramsay said and ** off? Seems to me like the easiest way to avoid another s* show.

Why would anyone post anything in a Carlton related thread on the Main Board if they didn't want to be met with vitriol and accusations of trolling from the Carlton supporting posters?

Because that is their MO when faced with the truth about their miserably pathetic excuse for a football club.

 

[Arr0w]

Seems the truth about Pies missing the eight hurt a few Pies supporters in here.

Must of mixed their wertbix with salt this morning

 

[Robertio]

Not my metric and not my measure. It is Carlton supporters who have stated if you finish higher you are better. And by the way if you count finals (which of course you should Collingwood have finished higher. than Carlton more). So, thank you to you as well for admitting Collingwood are the greatest club in history. Big admissions from Arr0w and carlton_99 that Collingwood are the greatest club in history. This has changed the fabric of this thread.

Of course if you finish higher you're better, the difference here is the Carlton supporters have the balls to call it as it is.

 

[Fadge]

Any sane individual is going to choose Acres in those circumstances.

Unless that 'insane' person also considers decision making and ball use, and considers Steele will at times play the important accountable role on the opposition's most dangerous mid in the same way as he started to in the final three games of 2024.

Sidey every day for me, and twice on match day.

 

[Worm4]

Seems the truth about Pies missing the eight hurt ALL Pies supporters in here.

Edited for accuracy

 

[Fadge]

5/6 of the top Carlton contributors have made their opinions on your posting style fairly clear in here over the last 24 hours.

Of course they have, because they can't handle the inconvenient truth...

 

[Fadge]

I'll take finishing above the Pies all day any day Fudgey.

Was nothing better than watching the Pies do everything they could in the last round of the year to get Nicky his 3 Brownlow votes only to find out he was still miles behind Big Crippa on the night. Was one of the most shameless displays of individual awards chasing I've ever seen... But I guess that's what happens when your playing dead rubbers to finish the year

Yep.

A Carlton supporter would know all about playing dead rubbers to end the year (and usually from about early July), and only having individual awards to worry about.

So I'll take your informed word on it.