Who will be better in 2025 - Geelong or Hawthorn?

[voorhees]

cats- they still got a year or 2 in them.
As long as J. Cameron stays fit, they will be in the mix.

 

[adammania9]

Geelongs not getting Oliver bud…..

Yes you will. Beams wasn't coming back to Collingwood either (I wish Brisbane held their ground)

 

[MadMaxx]

Trajectory says the Hawks, but the Cats seem to be our cryptonite of late.

Al least we will (should) have a few good KB's to take on Jez and mates.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sicily still played 22 games not saying he needed to be top 5, I know missing games can hurt B&F still a surprise missed the top 10 though.

Most blokes that missed a couple of games completely fell off the pace of the votes and you’ve got to remember Sicily might have only missed a few games but he also played games twice after the dislocation where he wasn’t able to do much until it settled down a week or two later.

 

[Sttew]

How many home games at GMHBA? Will they get 11?

Don't even think the club is asking for 11 anymore

 

[Alex_au]

Hawks depth is lacking and untested, also KPF stocks are sub par until Dear's body matures.

Geelong's midfield without Oliver still weak + an extra year in the legs of Stanley, Danger, Blicavs, Duncan who are pretty close to cooked as is.

Untested you say? A good portion of our depth have now been exposed to finals football.

 

[unitedhawk]

May I suggest a corresponding question:
Which one of Scott or Mitchell will be recognised as having been the better coach in 15 years from now?

Scott took over a very good group containing a swag of double-premiership winners and won a flag in his first year. He has since kept the Cats constantly in the finals hunt, often over-achieving with the talent at his disposal. It's fair to say he has been the second-best coach of the past decade-and-a-half, next to Clarkson. It's worth noting, though, that Scott has won just 2 flags in almost 15 years.

Mitchell took over an outfit ravaged by list mismanagement in Ckarkson's final years and has overseen an almost complete overhaul of the list as well as the game plan, in just 3 seasons. Without being too biased, I'd be willing to wager that he'll overtake Scott in terms of flags won, if he has as long a tenure.

On the question relating to this thread, it's 50-50 by my reckoning. Geelong were far better in 2024 than I'd expected but so were the Hawks. I'd expect both to feature prominently next September.

 

[jezza1435]

Yes you will. Beams wasn't coming back to Collingwood either (I wish Brisbane held their ground)

Geelong may not get Smith, let alone Oliver

 

[CobraKaiLover9]

What's everyone's grand final prediction for next season? (including potential trades/drafts)

CobraKaiLover9's; Catters v Lions

 

[Vdubs]

Geelong may not get Smith, let alone Oliver

Agree.
Hawthorn SHOULD have more upside.
We both certainly overachieved this season.
I am not sure if we can hope or expect improvement from Conway, Clark, and Knevitt, to the extent that we did with Dempsey, but without that , we will not progress.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Depth includes beyond the best 22. In 2024 the Hawks 2nd stringers weren't really tested as they had a fairly favourable run with injuries.

Three of our depth players almost helped us across the line in a Semi.

Another was arguably a 4th, but will be first team next year.

You have no clue who our players are, let alone who is depth.

Which is pretty much why the whole BF forum doesn't take you seriously.

 

[Freomaniac]

Is that why we couldn't match Gold Coast's offer for Ablett Jr in 2010?

Anyway,
Chris Scott's system is why so many of our players look good, just look at the players who have left us during the Scott era and been exposed as plodders at other clubs.

Esava Ratugolea is the most recent example.
He looked decent while playing for us, but since being at Port he's looked all at sea.

Tim Kelly is another recent example.
He looked a genuine A+ grade superstar while playing for us and close to the best player in the game, but he's been a solid reliable B+ grade midfielder at best since being at West Coast.

first off, I am going to try and avoid a tigers vs cats poo fight on here.

The current cats side in a way reminds me on then Richmond made finals consistently from 2013-22. Damien Hardwick managed to find a game plan that made his rotating players reliable. It's the same with Chris Scott at the cats.

Richmond had 4 or 5 elite players in the 23 but they had some solid back up and rotation players that were reliable.

I look at the cats grand final sides of 2020 and 2022. Elite players and leaders in Selwood and Hawkins.

But the cats had many good experienced and rotation players.

I agree with your view on Tim Kelly. He looked elite at Geelong. But he had good experienced players and that shows. He wasn't overly relied upon at the cats each week. He had guys like Dangerfield and Selwood to work with.

Tim Kelly at west coast is still good. But yeah his experienced teammates at west coast are duds or injured. Elliott Yeo for example has been injured for the last 3 years. Guys like Andrew Gaff are with old, on the decline or retired.

As far as the cats and the salary cap is concerned.... Salary cap this season is 17 million. It grows to 17.7 million in 2025.

Go look at the cats squad. You can see which cats players are on around $500,000 to $600,000 a year.

 

[PhatBoy]

first off, I am going to try and avoid a tigers vs cats poo fight on here.

The current cats side in a way reminds me on then Richmond made finals consistently from 2013-22. Damien Hardwick managed to find a game plan that made his rotating players reliable. It's the same with Chris Scott at the cats.

Richmond had 4 or 5 elite players in the 23 but they had some solid back up and rotation players that were reliable.

I look at the cats grand final sides of 2020 and 2022. Elite players and leaders in Selwood and Hawkins.

But the cats had many good experienced and rotation players.

I agree with your view on Tim Kelly. He looked elite at Geelong. But he had good experienced players and that shows. He wasn't overly relied upon at the cats each week. He had guys like Dangerfield and Selwood to work with.

Tim Kelly at west coast is still good. But yeah his experienced teammates at west coast are duds or injured. Elliott Yeo for example has been injured for the last 3 years. Guys like Andrew Gaff are with old, on the decline or retired.

As far as the cats and the salary cap is concerned.... Salary cap this season is 17 million. It grows to 17.7 million in 2025.

Go look at the cats squad. You can see which cats players are on around $500,000 to $600,000 a year.

I think Kelly’s performances with the Eagles over the last three years have been criminally underrated.

No he’s not a Dangerfield or Martin or Cripps but he has had so little around him for most of that period not just in the middle of the ground but all over it: when he wins or has the ball he has so little to go to.

He would not even have to be in a top 6 team to look very good again: just a semi competitive team would make him look a really, really strong player IMO

 

[CatToTheFuture]

It is a really good question that could go either way.

I think there's a few key position types at the cats who need to stay on the park and there's a couple of mids we can't really do without. The only older players we really rely on are Dangerfield, Cameron, and Stewart. But if Conway and/or SDK go down we are relying on Stanley and/or Blitz to hold the structure up at 34 years old.

Hawks some good kids really coming into their own but opposition analysts will now actually have to spend their limited resources to assess their game style and advise coaches on it. If one coach finds a way to pin their drive off half back down then they have to adjust rather than play on instinct. They're coming along well but that's a big test for a young group.

I genuinely do not know

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Anyway we're going off the cliff, all our best players are 45+.

Hey GAJ isn't a day over 41

 

[sleep]

Hawfs have the Adelaide Crows written all over them.

Big tumble down the ladder. Their squad is thinner than Jordan Lewis

Jordan Lewis

Age

38

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

310.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

5star

' hairline.

 

[sleep]

May I suggest a corresponding question:
Which one of Scott or Mitchell will be recognised as having been the better coach in 15 years from now?

Scott took over a very good group containing a swag of double-premiership winners and won a flag in his first year. He has since kept the Cats constantly in the finals hunt, often over-achieving with the talent at his disposal. It's fair to say he has been the second-best coach of the past decade-and-a-half, next to Clarkson. It's worth noting, though, that Scott has won just 2 flags in almost 15 years.

Mitchell took over an outfit ravaged by list mismanagement in Ckarkson's final years and has overseen an almost complete overhaul of the list as well as the game plan, in just 3 seasons. Without being too biased, I'd be willing to wager that he'll overtake Scott in terms of flags won, if he has as long a tenure.

On the question relating to this thread, it's 50-50 by my reckoning. Geelong were far better in 2024 than I'd expected but so were the Hawks. I'd expect both to feature prominently next September.

Played poker against Sam Mitchell.

Pulled his pants down and left him penniless.

How is this even a question?

He started crying when Kenny took it to Ginny (and rightfully so). "A much older man..."

Give me a break...