Who will be better in 2025 - Geelong or Hawthorn?

[CatToTheFuture]

I don’t think any cats fan is ever going to be outright happy to see Hawthorn succeed but we will always be respectful of how regularly they do it and their ability to continually find a way to.

Boasting about having a documentary made about finishing sixth when we are getting shit on for losing a preliminary final we were never expected to make, though, and pretending something that sounds as lame as ‘hok’ is something to be jealous of is… well, pretty stupid.

What’s next, a feature film about Rod Pampling’s share of fifth at the 2005 Masters?

Wait, they're getting a documentary made about finishing 7th?

How embarrassing

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Wait, they're getting a documentary made about finishing 7th?

How embarrassing

About our pre season

How embarrassing to not understand such a simple fact

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wait, they're getting a documentary made about finishing 7th?

How embarrassing

Does it need to be explained for a 5th time?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Does it need to be explained for a 5th time?

Probably not, I just read up to here. I'd probably do the same if I were in charge of the Hawks.

 

[craffles]

Hawks will slide, flash in the pan season with a soft draw and some very average players having above average seasons. Clubs have figured out there game plan and they will be middle of the pack again.

I expect Geelong to also slide as their core becomes a bit weaker but more to the bottom end of the 8 so my answer is Geelong.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Mitchell is a strong leader for sure but there's a lot of momentum being driven by young players. It'll take effort to keep them on track if they hit a bump.

Plateauing or even going backwards isn’t out of the question, but it’s certainly not something I fear with this group, and it’s due to how young and driven they are.

People scoffed at Mitchell two years ago when he said the core of our next premiership challenging team was sitting in front of him at the AGM, people scoffed when we traded out our two most experience midfielders and the head of footy said that we had seen enough in our young mids to take over and lead us forward.

Quite a few people on Bigfooty are still scoffing at the thought that we could even back up 2024, despite trading in two key players, regain arguably our best player and having further development of our top 10 picks. There’s a lot of reasons to have faith they won’t stagnate.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Plateauing or even going backwards isn’t out of the question, but it’s certainly not something I fear with this group, and it’s due to how young and driven they are.

People scoffed at Mitchell two years ago when he said the core of our next premiership challenging team was sitting in front of him at the AGM, people scoffed when we traded out our two most experience midfielders and the head of footy said that we had seen enough in our young mids to take over and lead us forward.

Quite a few people on Bigfooty are still scoffing at the thought that we could even back up 2024, despite trading in two key players, regain arguably our best player and having further development of our top 10 picks. There’s a lot of reasons to have faith they won’t stagnate.

Yeah certainly the list looks very capable on paper, just noting development isn't linear.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hawks will slide, flash in the pan season with a soft draw and some very average players having above average seasons. Clubs have figured out there game plan and they will be middle of the pack again.

Hawthorn had the 5th hardest draw in 2024, according to experts, but now it’s a soft draw because they made finals and all its youngsters are just average.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yeah certainly the list looks very capable on paper, just noting development isn't always linear.

FTFY.

2005 - complete rubbish
2006 - mostly rubbish
2007 - sneak a finals win
2008 -

 

[matey]

Funny seeing envious oppo supporters having tizzy fits because channel 7 chose the Hawks for a preseason doco. This time last year most had Hawks bottom 4 but ended the season one kick away from a prelim playing some exciting attacking football with a new breed enjoying themselves. Of course ch7 would jump on the Hawks for this idea. It’s also a no brainer that the club would accept any free media/exposure that comes its way ……… sport/AFL/clubs are in the business of entertainment.

Another important point that can’t be overlooked other than Bruest and Gunners most of this group will be playing together for years. The Hawks rebuild and list management under Sam has been very deliberate to put this in place ……. if Hawks go backwards in 25 they are cooked . Very confident that we’re just getting started!

 

[Mr Meow]

Seems unlikely with Mitchell running the show.

He went into great detail at the B&F about some computer coding book he had recently read, where a programmer had written that the first 90% of the code is the easy part and that to complete the code that last 10% is the equivalent of building another 90%.

Made no sense to me and others at the time, but does give a window into how he will be directing his charges about what they need to do in 2025 and beyond.

I'm not doubting Mitchell's vigour. Often you see young, exciting groups have a bit of a "blip" year on their rise, after an unexpectedly good one. Different list profiles, but I see Hawthorn where I saw Carlton this year.

Top 4 wouldn't surprise, battling for 8th wouldn't surprise. The prediction game is a farce anyway. How high a team finishes is so dependent on what every other team in the comp does.

 

[Mr Meow]

Hawks will slide, flash in the pan season with a soft draw and some very average players having above average seasons. Clubs have figured out there game plan and they will be middle of the pack again.

I expect Geelong to also slide as their core becomes a bit weaker but more to the bottom end of the 8 so my answer is Geelong.

2024 BnF:

1. Max Holmes - 164 votes
2. Zach Guthrie - 120 votes
3. Jeremy Cameron - 118 votes
4. Tom Stewart - 117 votes
5. Tyson Stengle - 107 votes
6. Gryan Miers - 95 votes
7. Ollie Dempsey - 73 votes
8. Ollie Henry - 69 votes
9. Brad Close - 66 votes
10. Patrick Dangerfield - 65 votes

I'm pretty sure 7 of those 10 are going to be aged 21 to 26 next season. Danger could decline but I wouldn't expect Stewart or Cameron to just fall off a cliff at 32.

 

[hawkman]

2024 BnF:

1. Max Holmes - 164 votes
2. Zach Guthrie - 120 votes
3. Jeremy Cameron - 118 votes
4. Tom Stewart - 117 votes
5. Tyson Stengle - 107 votes
6. Gryan Miers - 95 votes
7. Ollie Dempsey - 73 votes
8. Ollie Henry - 69 votes
9. Brad Close - 66 votes
10. Patrick Dangerfield - 65 votes

I'm pretty sure 7 of those 10 are going to be aged 21 to 26 next season. Danger could decline but I wouldn't expect Stewart or Cameron to just fall off a cliff at 32.

I just noticed for the first time Ollie Henry in 8th. That seems a big surprise given he doesn't do much apart from kick a couple of goals a game

 

[Osho]

Hawks have about 10 more weeks of free footy, then the oppo will start working things out as always happens. Then we'll see how it goes.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Hawks have about 10 more weeks of free footy, then the oppo will start working things out as always happens. Then we'll see how it goes.

Is that when teams start doing oppo analysis

God some of you have no clue

 

[Drunkcat]

I just noticed for the first time Ollie Henry in 8th. That seems a big surprise given he doesn't do much apart from kick a couple of goals a game

Surprise a joke really, yes he kicked a few goals but did not have as good year as 2023, played a few more crap games in 2024.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

FTFY.

2005 - complete rubbish
2006 - mostly rubbish
2007 - sneak a finals win
2008 -

You know how to hurt a man

 

[Gavin Excell]

Seems unlikely with Mitchell running the show.

He went into great detail at the B&F about some computer coding book he had recently read, where a programmer had written that the first 90% of the code is the easy part and that to complete the code that last 10% is the equivalent of building another 90%.

Made no sense to me and others at the time, but does give a window into how he will be directing his charges about what they need to do in 2025 and beyond.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I'm not doubting Mitchell's vigour. Often you see young, exciting groups have a bit of a "blip" year on their rise, after an unexpectedly good one. Different list profiles, but I see Hawthorn where I saw Carlton this year.

Top 4 wouldn't surprise, battling for 8th wouldn't surprise. The prediction game is a farce anyway. How high a team finishes is so dependent on what every other team in the comp does.

Yes this is true
Geelong had the obvious nucleus of a quality team that came to fruition 2007 but the year prior was a disaster after slowly building with finals wins 04 and 05

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I just noticed for the first time Ollie Henry in 8th. That seems a big surprise given he doesn't do much apart from kick a couple of goals a game

Lots of people were critical of him for that coming into the season because it did sort of define his 40 goal first season with us, but this year he was creating space for others, running up the ground, bringing the ball to ground etc.

Not enough to call it a strength but he's getting better.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I just noticed for the first time Ollie Henry in 8th. That seems a big surprise given he doesn't do much apart from kick a couple of goals a game

Look at his prelim. Huge game. 4 goals. Game high 10 score involvements. With 2 minutes left it looked like he had dragged us into a grand final. That's what he can be at his best.

His first half of the year was excellent. Much more well rounded than 2023. Then he struggled with injury and form for 8 or so weeks. Then his final round and finals were super. He was always going to finish somewhere from 7th - 13th or so.

 

[Bunnings]

I just noticed for the first time Ollie Henry in 8th. That seems a big surprise given he doesn't do much apart from kick a couple of goals a game

Yeah, goals suck.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Look at his prelim. Huge game. 4 goals. Game high 10 score involvements. With 2 minutes left it looked like he had dragged in into a grand final. That's what he can be at good best.

His first half of the year was excellent. Much more well rounded than 2023. Then he struggled with injury and form for 8 or so weeks. Then his final round and finals were super. He was always going to finish somewhere from 7th - 13th or so.

Here's there to kick goals

 

[hawkman]

Here's there to kick goals

Sure, I was just surprised a 9 disposal 1.6 goal a game forward finished 8th in the B&F for the 3rd best team of the year. I guess it was helped because some of Geelong's better players over the back half like Humphries and Mannagh didn't play enough games to finish high up

 

[Mr Meow]

Sure, I was just surprised a 9 disposal 1.6 goal a game forward finished 8th in the B&F for the 3rd best team of the year. I guess it was helped because some of Geelong's better players over the back half like Humphries and Mannagh didn't play enough games to finish high up

Henry's result was a little surprising but his best 10 games were very good (only partially reflected on the stats sheet) and he played a lot of games. He doubled his goal assist rate in 2024 which was nice.

In reality not much probably separates players in that 8th-15th range.