Who will be closer to playing in finals end of 2016 season? Lions, StK or Melbourne

[Sprout]

Hanley and Zorko are genuine midfielders. Hanley's shown the ability to go in on the inside too. Rockliff, Beams, Hanley, Zorko, Rich, Robinson, Christensen, Bell, Bastinac, Taylor and Mayes is hand down better than Melbourne or Saints midfield at the moment, especially of most of them stay on the park. Our KPP stocks however are far worse as it stands.

I'm getting a strange sense of déjà vu. Oh that's right, because we went through this exercise this time last year when Beams and Christensen were meant to propel the Lions into the top 8 according to every second Brisbane fan.

Hands down better? They've done **** all as yet. The midfield you're creaming yourself over took the Lions to second last, very lucky not to finish last. Yes there were injuries, but Beams and Rockliff played 16 games apiece. Every team gets injuries. The depth was tested and failed dismally. And you've added who? Tom Bell? With the loss of Redden that is a net loss in the middle.

As of right now, it is an overrated midfield. Until it clicks and does something, like finishing outside of the bottom four, it will remain overrated.

 

[LeverPuller]

Sigh.

Okay, to try to give a legitimate two cents here:

St Kilda: Right now they seem to be chugging along nicely. The problem I have will be the personnel gap between the retirement of Roo and Joey (and to a lesser extent Gilbert and Dempster) and their up and coming players. Biggest one is Roo who still commands the #1 forward. The only other thing is who does come on out of the midfielders. There are some blokes who strike me as flash in the pan - Acres the best example. I think they'll find a good midfield but the question is more about who it will be.

Brisbane in the middle can match it with the best. When they're fit in the middle their forwards become potent too, because suddenly Zorko is floating around the forward line. The KPP thing is well known, but I think it will be a bigger problem down back than up forward. Harris Andrews has been a huge find for them but they need another. Academy picks are most important for the Lions - more than even the Giants.

Melbourne has assembled one of the best grunt work sides going around. The problem rests more in everywhere else. The second KPF is less important than outside run and carry and clean disposal off half back. Salem is actually critical to our game style with the disposal. The other injury that hurt more than I thought was the loss of Dean Kent - his forward pressure is extremely important for locking it in, especially for those bursts where Jeffy does sweet FA.

Honestly I think it's Saints = Melbourne > Brisbane. Lions need a lot of backline work while both St Kilda and Melbourne are just about assembled and just waiting for the kids to click.

 

[Roylion]

'bog ordinary' is a bit much but I'd say that Brisbane's midfield is definitely overrated on BF.

I'd like to see all of them operating together as a unit on a reasonably consistent basis to make that judgement. Someone to kick to in order for the side to score on a regular basis would also help.

 

[Roylion]

Brisbane in the middle can match it with the best. When they're fit in the middle their forwards become potent too, because suddenly Zorko is floating around the forward line. The KPP thing is well known, but I think it will be a bigger problem down back than up forward. Harris Andrews has been a huge find for them but they need another. Academy picks are most important for the Lions - more than even the Giants.

Largely agree. The Lions know this also which is why they looked closely at Astbury during the recent trade period. Academy prospect Eric Hipwood might help here, but he's going to take at least a couple of years to develop. A 22-26 year old reasonably experienced key defender to help / cover for Merrett, Clarke and Gardiner would be invaluable.

The Lions' tall forward division with Walker, Freeman, McStay, Walker, Close and Schache seems to be relatively well stocked, if inexperienced. Wouldn't mind adding some ruck depth too.

 

[Rotayjay]

Really we were widely tipped to come last again this year and have improved remarkably. Who are you to say we arent going anywhere.

What I meant is that St Kilda would be closer to finals in 2016 than Brisbane or Melbourne. Brisbane has just bottomed out (and with no KPPs), but Melbourne seems to have stalled for years, and nothing appears to be working.

 

[CHBench]

The Saints conceded 118 more points than Melbourne this season which in my eyes is significant.

Slightly skewed. We copped 2 100 point smashings in the last 2 rounds, after being competitive for most of the year it was cue in the rack type stuff from us.

 

[Roylion]

The midfield you're creaming yourself over took the Lions to second last, very lucky not to finish last. Yes there were injuries, but Beams and Rockliff played 16 games apiece.

But only ten games in the same side. Less than half the season. Rounds 1,4,5,6,7,8,9,15,16,18.

Every team gets injuries.

But Brisbane had the most injuries. Most games lost of any AFL side in 2015. Gold Coast also up there.

The depth was tested and failed dismally. And you've added who? Tom Bell? With the loss of Redden that is a net loss in the middle.

You know... I'm sure the Lions also added Ryan Bastinac. And for depth Jarrad Jansen.

As of right now, it is an overrated midfield. Until it clicks and does something, like finishing outside of the bottom four, it will remain overrated.

It might click if its various parts can finally start to play some football together.

 

[Trav 20]

Melbourne seems to have stalled for years, and nothing appears to be working.

This just lacks intellectual rigour.

 

[Rotayjay]

This just lacks intellectual rigour.

It's based purely on appearances and not in-depth knowledge, I admit. You guys have been waiting long enough to play finals - I hope you can soon.

 

[pOleK]

Largely agree. The Lions know this also which is why they looked closely at Astbury during the recent trade period. Academy prospect Eric Hipwood might help here, but he's going to take at least a couple of years to develop. A 22-26 year old reasonably experienced key defender to help / cover for Merrett, Clarke and Gardiner would be invaluable.

The Lions' tall forward division with Walker, Freeman, McStay, Walker, Close and Schache seems to be relatively well stocked, if inexperienced. Wouldn't mind adding some ruck depth too.

If Hipwood is anything like Andrews he'll have a breakout debut season as well, and how good would that be . And with our KPP still in development i wouldn't be surprised (don't put my money on it) if in a few years time we have some of the best forward and defence line in the comp and our midfield starts to age a little and might begin to drop.

 

[SizeMatters]

Lions have the best defence and midfield... so I guess they will obviously be a better team than St or Dees.

 

[cotter101]

I'm getting a strange sense of déjà vu. Oh that's right, because we went through this exercise this time last year when Beams and Christensen were meant to propel the Lions into the top 8 according to every second Brisbane fan.

Hands down better? They've done **** all as yet. The midfield you're creaming yourself over took the Lions to second last, very lucky not to finish last. Yes there were injuries, but Beams and Rockliff played 16 games apiece. Every team gets injuries. The depth was tested and failed dismally. And you've added who? Tom Bell? With the loss of Redden that is a net loss in the middle.

As of right now, it is an overrated midfield. Until it clicks and does something, like finishing outside of the bottom four, it will remain overrated.

Your right, there were a lot that thought that. The midfield barely played together for what it's worth so they didn't exactly get the chance to click. We only had 23 players fully fit at one point there. Don't get me wrong, injuries cannot be blamed for everything, but they can certainly make a big difference. It seemed as if we went backwards in 2015. Confident we'll improve on that in 2016.

 

[Trav 20]

It's based purely on appearances and not in-depth knowledge, I admit.

I would never have guessed.

 

[Sprout]

You know... I'm sure the Lions also added Ryan Bastinac. And for depth Jarrad Jansen.

I wouldn't be pinning many (or any) hopes on Bastinac. He's in the same "wait and see" category as Melksham is for us.

Your right, there were a lot that thought that. The midfield barely played together for what it's worth so they didn't exactly get the chance to click. We only had 23 players fully fit at one point there. Don't get me wrong, injuries cannot be blamed for everything, but they can certainly make a big difference. It seemed as if we went backwards in 2015. Confident we'll improve on that in 2016.

All three teams will improve next season. The question is which one will improve the most.

 

[Sprout]

Lions have the best defence and midfield... so I guess they will obviously be a better team than St or Dees.

Second most points conceded in the league last season. Saints fourth. Melbourne sixth.

But yeah nah, best defence

 

[SizeMatters]

Second most points conceded in the league last season. Saints fourth. Melbourne sixth.

But yeah nah, best defence

i cant wait for next season to smash your rabble. New fitness coach would mean we won't have 15+ players injured every week...


still hurting after Martin was forced out on the cheap?

 

[#gosaintas]

I actually hope all 3 of us go well next season. We need to keep on top of crap like Carlton and essendon and chase those overhyped flogs at footscray. We can wave to Adelaide, Freo, Syd. Nth and Rich as they slide below us too. Should be a fun year for all of us.

 

[Sprout]

i cant wait for next season to smash your rabble. New fitness coach would mean we won't have 15+ players injured every week...

Sure thing sweetheart.

still hurting after Martin was forced out on the cheap?

No. We have Maximus Gawn. Averages five more hitouts per game. Martin would be superfluous to requirements.

Btw, who barracks for Brisbane AND Gold Coast? Aren't they meant to be rivals?

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

No one at Melbourne gives a **** about Stefan Martin.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

No one at Melbourne gives a **** about Stefan Martin.

They wish they had him

lik if u cri evrytim

 

[Ricmel]

I like Demons midfield and Hogan straightens them up. They should do best next year but Saints are close and our draw next year will help. Brisbane I think have talent on the list but it does not translate to the field. They have other issues to deal with before being a good team.

Saints certainly aren't targetting immediate success and I would suggest Melbourne have a similar view - 2018/19/20. Whilst I think Melbourne's midfield is high potential, I think Saint's spine - McCarten, Bruce, Carlisle, Goddard - has serious potential and if it comes together should get Saints closer to a flag than current Demons and Lions lists.

 

[aussierulesrules]

St Kilda: Right now they seem to be chugging along nicely. The problem I have will be the personnel gap between the retirement of Roo and Joey (and to a lesser extent Gilbert and Dempster) and their up and coming players.

The reason it doesn't concern me too much is that from what I'm hearing Roo is hoping to play for 3 more years (will probably come down to how his knee holds up, as his fitness might allow him to play till he's 40!) and I would happily bet that Montagna would be aiming for at least 3 more as well (he could even finish off in a forward or back pocket and play for longer). Dempster is meant to be as meticulous as anyone on our list, so he is another who I could see playing for two more years. Apparently they are red-hot keen to have another crack at finals and perhaps a flag and to perhaps pinch one, Shane Crawford in 2008 style.

Whether that eventuates or not, if it is in at least two years time that gives say McCartin a couple more years to find his feet and it also gives us at least two years to find someone to replace Joey with and by then we'll be more than happy to top up via free agency, which is something we haven't attempted to use since its inception- because of where we were at with our list/TPP and then with our rebuild. We haven't recruited anyone over about 24years of age for a few years now.

By the time they retire, we'll hopefully be a much more attractive destination and their retiring will free up a chunk of our salary cap, which we'll have the opportunity to use for free agency, or mature trades. It's not like we have to replace them all with those who are on our list right now. The only one I'm expecting to retire at the end of next season is Fisher and some on our board on here weren't even able to squeeze him into their best 22's for round 1 2016, in spite of the fact that Carlisle's presence will hopefully free him up to be more attacking again!

Biggest one is Roo who still commands the #1 forward.

Last year our forward line actually functioned better when Nick wasn't in there at times (case in point the 2nd half of our huge comeback win over WB and our draw v Geelong late- he was moved to the wing for the 2nd half v WB and played most of the game there v Geelong) and Josh Bruce actually looked as good and comfortable, if not more so, when he was the "big banana" there this year. Some of his most dominant games were when Nick wasn't playing (5 goal hauls v Essendon in R5 and 5 v Adelaide in Adelaide, after Roo was knocked out). Expect to see a lot more of Nick up the ground and around the midfield next season and probably from now on, to allow Bruce/McCartin/Membrey/Hickey to settle together.

I've been calling for Nick to be moved to the wing off and on for years now, so I'm really excited to see how he goes there on a more permanent basis.

The only other thing is who does come on out of the midfielders. There are some blokes who strike me as flash in the pan - Acres the best example. I think they'll find a good midfield but the question is more about who it will be.

That is going to be a good question, although I'm as confident about Acres as I am for just about any of them, as long as he gets his body to play ball. A lot expected of Jack Sinclair as well I think. Has a lot of the Sam Mitchell's about him (dual-sidedness, very good skills and smarts, incredible poise that gives him all the time in the world to spot the perfect target and then execute and good inside- had at least 10 clearances in his one and only VFL game this year).

 

[Roylion]

I wouldn't be pinning many (or any) hopes on Bastinac. He's in the same "wait and see" category as Melksham is for us.

I'm reasonably confident that Bastinac will fit into the Lions midfield very well along with Beams, Rockliff, Rich, Bell, Hanley, Christenson and Zorko.

Ryan Bastinac, 24, 121 games, 66 goals. Avg disposals: 19.27. Finals: 4

Jake Melksham, 24, 114 games, 57 goals. Avg disposals: 16.46. Finals: 1

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hanley and Zorko are genuine midfielders. Hanley's shown the ability to go in on the inside too. Rockliff, Beams, Hanley, Zorko, Rich, Robinson, Christensen, Bell, Bastinac, Taylor and Mayes is hand down better than Melbourne or Saints midfield at the moment, especially of most of them stay on the park.

On paper that certainly would be a much better and in particular deeper midfield than the one we had this year (even though we had 3 of the top 21 in the comp for average disposals, compared to your 1 in the top 38), but next year ours will likely have all of the following rolling through there: Armitage, Steven, Montagna, Riewoldt, Gilbert, Dunstan, Billings, Newnes, Ross, Acres, Freeman, Weller, Sinclair, Webster, Lonie and perhaps a Mathieson, so it ought to be a completely different kettle of fish to the one we were rolling with this year- which for a start was badly hampered by Ross's serious hamstring injury on the eve of the season (wanting to free up a spot for him is a fair part of the reason Lenny retired, I'd say) and the fact that Dunstan carried his bad shoulder/arm injury for the year and didn't spend as much time in the guts as he otherwise would have.

Our midfield was incredibly shallow this year, but I don't see that being the case at all next year, with so many more of the young ones likely to be ready to go through there, and if we are able to play Riewoldt and Gilbert there most of the time, that will also give it a completely different dynamic (with both being at least 193cm, quick (especially Gilbo, who is explosive and breaks lines), both able to run all day, push hard forward, or back and being so strong overhead).

 

[PerfectFooty]

These threads frustrate me so much, because people take things so personally. Would be interesting to see people discuss this that aren't dees saints or lions fans