Who will play more games next year?

[Slattery_20]

I love it how people come on here and asume that because they watched the game, they must be right.

WE ALL WATCH THE GAMES KNOB!!!! That's how we formulate our opinions.

I would say that developing the potential high quality players should be a priority. If you see otherwise then so be it.

I agree, however Houli has a lot more to learn and needs another 12 months.

Houli should be the better footballer, all things being equal, but Hocking is ready to go in 2008. Houli isn't.

What he said. I reckon Houli will be a better footballer as well, but he's not a better footballer right now. & He's going to have a lot less impact purely because there are guys in front of him who play a similar position

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I agree, however Houli has a lot more to learn and needs another 12 months.

Houli should be the better footballer, all things being equal, but Hocking is ready to go in 2008. Houli isn't.

Thats what I don't get.

Houli had the better first half and Hocking had a better second half because Houli was injured. If Houli played in that final he would have amassed 30+ and no one would have cared about Hocking.

Hocking has timed his run perfectly and is the off season superstar.

Houli can run quicker, further, kick better and has much more to offer then Hocking.

I expect Houli to play more because there is no way known we can have Watson, JJ/Pev, Slattery, Monfries and Hocking in the one side. Team balance requires a skillful classy mid which Houli is.

 

[ant555]

Thats what I don't get.

Houli had the better first half and Hocking had a better second half because Houli was injured. If Houli played in that final he would have amassed 30+ and no one would have cared about Hocking.

Hocking has timed his run perfectly and is the off season superstar.

Houli can run quicker, further, kick better and has much more to offer then Hocking.

I expect Houli to play more because there is no way known we can have Watson, JJ/Pev, Slattery, Monfries and Hocking in the one side. Team balance requires a skillful classy mid which Houli is.

Kelvin , Houli did not have a better first half of the year than Hocking. They where pretty even in the first half of the season with both players regulary getting around 25 possessions.
I dont know where you are getting the pre season star crap from. Hocking is now simply showing the benifits of having an injury free run into pre season after having a very good year at VFL level unlike his first year.
If you think that Houli can run further than Hocking then you are really showing that you dont watch games all that closely. If Houli can run further then why did he get rotated to the bench more times than Hocking during games this year ?

 

[ant555]

I don't question that Hocking was our best player that day, he played a very good match. And I'll agree that it wasn't just Reimers' injury that turned the tide, I went too far on that.

I wouldn't say that I don't notice the guy giving off the ball, as those guys are essential. But at VFL level, I tend to look for the guys that look like they stand out amongst others as to me, it's those guys that have the greatest potenial for AFL football. By 'standing out' I don't necessarily mean kicking miracle goals and taking on every guy in sight, it can be things like dominating stoppages and clearances and those kind of things. I never said that he doesn't influence games, I just don't feel that I've seen enough dominance from him. Hocking was magnificent against North Ballarat, I just didn't get the domination feel from him.
I think and hope he can make it as a tagger, I just don't think that he'll ever be anything more than that and there's a possibility he simply won't make it at all.

33 possessions , 8 tackles, 3 goals and 4 goal assists and you didnt get the feel that he dominated the game. You are a hard marker.

 

[Longy413]

Thats what I don't get.

That doesn't surprise me.

Houli had the better first half and Hocking had a better second half because Houli was injured.

Houli didn't, he was almost down-hill skiing in the first half of the season.
He was Ben Haynes all over again, but he got better at it. He has a long way to go, he'll get eaten alive playing that kind of footy at AFL level.

And he still handballed far to often, for a bloke that has such a good kick on the run he doesn't use it nearly often enough to consider him to make an impact at AFL level. If you have a strength and you don't use it, you're another Ricky Dyson.

Houli can run quicker, further, kick better and has much more to offer then Hocking.

Houli doesn't run further than Hocking.
He has more to offer, not next year, he has too much to learn.

I expect Houli to play more because there is no way known we can have Watson, JJ/Pev, Slattery, Monfries and Hocking in the one side. Team balance requires a skillful classy mid which Houli is.

Monfries is a classy mid with good skills.
Slattery will play back.
Pev won't be in the side.
Watson makes classy mids better players and has class of his own.

Lovett will play midfield, he's burning up the track and his repeated efforts are at a level he's never seen.

McVeigh is a skillful mid.

Jetta, Dempsey.

Hocking doesn't just play midfield, he goes back and forward as well.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

My last thoughts on the Hocking subject.

I think everyone is getting over excited due to one really good game in a final.

If he was so good during the season he would have finished in the top 3 in the Bendigo B&F but it was Bradley, Cloke and Chartres!

I hope he makes it and proves me wrong!

 

[Longy413]

So you're eliminating the fact that others may have watched him play at Eastern?

I haven't even seen the final, I was in Perth, it's made no bearing on my opinion.

 

[GoDons]

33 possessions , 8 tackles, 3 goals and 4 goal assists and you didnt get the feel that he dominated the game. You are a hard marker.

To me, it was like he made 200 but faced 450 balls in doing so. He played well all day, he was brilliant, but in cricketing terms, I didn't feel that he really took the attack on as much as I would've liked.

If you look at the whole picture, he dominated the game. But all his efforts singularly were hardly dominate.

If that makes sense.

 

[Windas_Magic]

I personally didnt see many bendigo games this year but i did watch the final and i do think that Hocking stood out. He was tackling, creating play and winning clearences. I think that he can develop into a solid mid who works hard and does his job week in, week out. I dont think that he will become a stand-out player at AFL level but i do think that he can cut it to be in our best 22.

 

[bomba4eva]

Out of Dempsey, Houli, Dyson, Hislop, Jetta, Hocking, Myers based on form and team balance.

My ranking order would be:
1. Jetta-This guy is special and will be a star. Had a good pre season and should be primed to be playing in the Essendon team for much of next season
2. Hislop
3. Dempsey-has to get his body right first.
4. Houli
5. Myers-Would love to see this guy get a crack and show his worth
6. Hocking
7. Dyson-will no doubt receive oppotunities but I dont think he is up to it. Hope he proves me wrong. Im doubtful though that he will succeed for us

 

[TheDon35]

What he said. I reckon Houli will be a better footballer as well, but he's not a better footballer right now. & He's going to have a lot less impact purely because there are guys in front of him who play a similar position

That's where I don't understand your points. You both think Houli will be a better player although you think he's a year behind hocking.

Houli is currently quicker, can run as well, has better skills, looks stronger, wins the ball as much and played just as well as Hocking did in the VFL last year. He has areas of his game that needs to be improved but these areas can be improved while Hockings weeknesses will be much harder to develop. So with that in mind, I don't really understand how people think Hocking is so far ahead of Houli currently.

 

[DaSawx]

If Houli has weaknesses why can't he develop his in the VFL?

Probably easier to teach a player to run both ways and be accountable in a slower league before being thrown to the wolves.

Knight's, O'Donnel and co. want our players to be accountable and know what their doing and where they're running to, simple fact is Hocking is more ready for senio footy 'at this point in time' and if Houli's weaknesses can be worked out in the VFL that's where we'll see him a lot of the time, doesn't mean he can't or won't make it.

The coaching staff want to not only develop all young players on the list, but try to win at the same time.

 

[NathanS]

I think it's best to wait and see when it comes to Houli v Hocking. I'll leave it in the hands of the coaches. You never know... it's possible both will be regular contributors.

That said with the number of players vying for spots, I think it'll depend more on what sort of player we need at the time, as both players have merit.

 

[ant555]

To me, it was like he made 200 but faced 450 balls in doing so. He played well all day, he was brilliant, but in cricketing terms, I didn't feel that he really took the attack on as much as I would've liked.

If you look at the whole picture, he dominated the game. But all his efforts singularly were hardly dominate.

If that makes sense.

No it doesnt but we are going around in circles now anyway. Obviously you dont see what he does as exciting. He isnt Chris Judd so its hard to find that extra x factor if you havnt got it. He dominated that game it is just the fact he did it in his way.

 

[ant555]

My last thoughts on the Hocking subject.

I think everyone is getting over excited due to one really good game in a final.

If he was so good during the season he would have finished in the top 3 in the Bendigo B&F but it was Bradley, Cloke and Chartres!

I hope he makes it and proves me wrong!

Really. I am judging him on the 20 VFL games i have seen him play plus about 15 or so games i saw him play at Rangers in the TAC Cup. He didnt just have one good game in the finals. He was named in the best 3 a few times.He won a B&F at Eastern Rangers. He has played consitant good footy for a while now.
In the end he finished 7th in the Bendigo B&F and was pretty close points wise to the top three although the Bendigo B&F counting has always been strange. No one even knew the top 10 this year until a few weeks after the announced the top 3.

 

[GoDons]

No it doesnt but we are going around in circles now anyway. Obviously you dont see what he does as exciting. He isnt Chris Judd so its hard to find that extra x factor if you havnt got it. He dominated that game it is just the fact he did it in his way.

It's not about excitement.

As I said before, I don't believe you have to be exciting to have x-factor and nor do I believe you have to be a star. You've just got to be able to elevate your game (run of the mill players like Clinton Young can do that), and I'm not sure Hocking is able to do that. They're my feelings about him, plain and simple.

And I take it you're not a cricket fan...

 

[SM10]

Really. I am judging him on the 20 VFL games i have seen him play plus about 15 or so games i saw him play at Rangers in the TAC Cup. He didnt just have one good game in the finals. He was named in the best 3 a few times.He won a B&F at Eastern Rangers. He has played consitant good footy for a while now.
In the end he finished 7th in the Bendigo B&F and was pretty close points wise to the top three although the Bendigo B&F counting has always been strange. No one even knew the top 10 this year until a few weeks after the announced the top 3.

Anyone of note in that Eastern Rangers side?

 

[Windas_Magic]

Out of Dempsey, Houli, Dyson, Hislop, Jetta, Hocking, Myers based on form and team balance.

1. Dempsey
2. Jetta
3. Houli
4. Hislop
5. Dyson
6. Hocking
7. Myers

I think Dempsey and Jetta will be given a lot of opportunities and will consolidate their spots.

Dyson will get first go out of the others but will be overtaken by round 6.

Houli will surprise and give us a bit of value going forward.

Hislop and Hocking will find it hard to dislodge JJ, Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, Slattery for games.

Myers needs plenty of BOG's in the VFL to be considered.

Your thoughts?

1.Hocking-Has had a great pre-season so far and can find a perminant spot in the midfield. Perfeft replacement for JJ and Pev
2.Jetta-Will probably be used as a small forward who tackles and crumbs goals
3.Dempsey-If he can get his body right will probably be used as a winger or HBF (run through midfield will be a key)
4.Houli-GUN!!
5.Dyson-Inconsisstent year and needs to show something
6.Hislop-Could be used as a mid or maybe a back-pocket
7.Myers-Think he'll get a taste of AFL but mainly be playing for Bendigo

 

[ant555]

It's not about excitement.

As I said before, I don't believe you have to be exciting to have x-factor and nor do I believe you have to be a star. You've just got to be able to elevate your game (run of the mill players like Clinton Young can do that), and I'm not sure Hocking is able to do that. They're my feelings about him, plain and simple.

And I take it you're not a cricket fan...

I am a cricket fan but what you keep saying about Hocking's game against Nth Ball doesn't make sense. I do not know how you can say his efferts where not dominant in that game. They where and it was not like making a 200 of 450 balls. He won clearances, he lead the tackle count he set up 4 direct goals (and a few points from bozo's who cant kick straight) he pushed forward from the midfield and kicked 3 goals. He found an absolute stack of the footy. It was more like making 200 of 300 balls in a test match.
He may or may not be able to take his game to another level. That remains to be seen but my last comments where simply about the Nth Ballarat game.

 

[ant555]

Anyone of note in that Eastern Rangers side?

Id have to go back and look up the whole playing list to be precise but off the top of my head i know Travis Cloke and Chris Knights where drafted out of that side. Overall there was not a lot well known players.

Edit. Matthew Bate , Fabian Deluca , Mtthew Spangher and Leigh Adams where others drafted around the same time that played some footy with Rangers in the same side as Hocking.

 

[pjc1993]

Ant, good to see above that you rate Myers highly after seeing him train in the flesh. Is he any chance for more than a taste of AFL next year?

 

[ant555]

Ant, good to see above that you rate Myers highly after seeing him train in the flesh. Is he any chance for more than a taste of AFL next year?

He will more than likely play some senior footy next year but i wouldnt see him playing a heap of games just yet but who knows he may surprise. Im not a big fan of playing young blokes too much in their first year. Most sturggle with the increased training load let alone having to play at another level.

 

[GoDons]

I am a cricket fan but what you keep saying about Hocking's game against Nth Ball doesn't make sense. I do not know how you can say his efferts where not dominant in that game. They where and it was not like making a 200 of 450 balls. He won clearances, he lead the tackle count he set up 4 direct goals (and a few points from bozo's who cant kick straight) he pushed forward from the midfield and kicked 3 goals. He found an absolute stack of the footy. It was more like making 200 of 300 balls in a test match.
He may or may not be able to take his game to another level. That remains to be seen but my last comments where simply about the Nth Ballarat game.

I agree that he dominated the game, but I don't agree that his singular impacts were dominant.

I think we're just going to have to leave it at that.

 

[kelvinb]

1. Leroy Jetta: In our best 22, seems to have had a good pre-season and baring injury will play each week.
2. Ricky Dyson: Knights wants him fitter, it seems he is, so he will play. Im not big wraps on him but will probably deliver enough in the midfield rotations to keep his spot.
3. Courtenay Dempsey: Will spend plenty of time on the bench but will add something in short sparks. Hopefully over early injury concerns.
4. Heath Hocking: The good trainers will be rewarded and he is.
5. Bachar Houli: Like heath will be rewarded for his preparation and running capacity.
6. Tom Hislop: Will have to prove fitness levels first and catch up on his interrupted preseason, but will be given a chance when this happens.
7. David Myers: Knights seems to suggest that fitness levels have to be there first before selection, maybe the times of throwing in a kid to give him a taste are gone? I hope not entirely, no doubt he will be good but have to think that the guys with 2-3 preseasons will be given a chance first.

 

[Slattery_20]

Hands up here anyone who would be unhappy with making a double century... no-one? Thought so