Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder:

This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread.

Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks.

 

[Gethelred]

So this thread went:

Islam is arguably the least progressive religion.
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What about the Amish?
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A tiny sub culture religion with zero impact on 99.9% of the world is hardly worth mentioning
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The Amish were Christians and so was Hitler....hardly worth mentioning you say?
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That's stupid logic.
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Hitler wasn't the only Nazi.


THIS HAS GOTTEN REALLY REALLY DUMB.

Islam is "arguably" the least progressive religion, but the arguments we are getting here are really really stupid.

This feels like a series of strawmen stacked atop each other, each after the other strawier than the last.

The initial point was made around consistency, a comparison between religions. You mightn't like where the conversation went - it's a very 'whatabout' of a direction to take an 'islam = bad' conversation, but whatever - but strawmanning is still strawmanning.

 

[Gethelred]

Great input, as always

Lol.

As if you're always on topic or a worthy contributor, burge.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This feels like a series of strawmen stacked atop each other, each after the other strawier than the last.

The initial point was made around consistency, a comparison between religions. You mightn't like where the conversation went - it's a very 'whatabout' of a direction to take an 'islam = bad' conversation, but whatever - but strawmanning is still strawmanning.

Fair enough then.

The other Nazi's followed Hitler, rather than any particular religion.

Notably i don't think they changed their religious views to align with Hitlers, as it was not a religious movement.
They promoted Gottgläubig which was the belief in god , without being associated with any religious organisation.
I think this was a calculated thing to undermine any power that religious organisations may have had.

Goebbels seemed to be against all Christianity ( though it might have just been exercising policy ).
Himmler hated Christianity and did not reveal any religious belifs.
Goring is widely documented , but no mention of religion.

Most of the significant Nazi's seem to have been publicly anti-religion, or ambivalent.

I don't think you can relate Nazi'ism to Christianity as a movement.

 

[faible]

This feels like a series of strawmen stacked atop each other, each after the other strawier than the last.

A straw-babushka perhaps?

A babushtraw man?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Fair enough then.

The other Nazi's followed Hitler, rather than any particular religion.

Notably i don't think they changed their religious views to align with Hitlers, as it was not a religious movement.
They promoted Gottgläubig which was the belief in god , without being associated with any religious organisation.
I think this was a calculated thing to undermine any power that religious organisations may have had.

Goebbels seemed to be against all Christianity ( though it might have just been exercising policy ).
Himmler hated Christianity and did not reveal any religious belifs.
Goring is widely documented , but no mention of religion.

Most of the significant Nazi's seem to have been publicly anti-religion, or ambivalent.

I don't think you can relate Nazi'ism to Christianity as a movement.

A few years after this young christian lady was throwing Nazi salutes, she was promoted to Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

 

[Jazny]

A few years after this young christian lady was throwing Nazi salutes, she was promoted to Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

View attachment 2044424

 

[Gethelred]

Fair enough then.

The other Nazi's followed Hitler, rather than any particular religion.

Notably i don't think they changed their religious views to align with Hitlers, as it was not a religious movement.
They promoted Gottgläubig which was the belief in god , without being associated with any religious organisation.
I think this was a calculated thing to undermine any power that religious organisations may have had.

Goebbels seemed to be against all Christianity ( though it might have just been exercising policy ).
Himmler hated Christianity and did not reveal any religious belifs.
Goring is widely documented , but no mention of religion.

Most of the significant Nazi's seem to have been publicly anti-religion, or ambivalent.

I don't think you can relate Nazi'ism to Christianity as a movement.

But you can absolutely chart directly the affect their antisemetic propaganda had on the German people to their classic antisemitism from their specific branch of christianity.

Mind, this could be due to a difference in how the two of us view history, the difference between viewing it as a series of political movements in which individuals are de-emphasised versus an events and individuals model.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Please sir, make the rain stop
- Adolf Hitler

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Doesn't really matter which Nazi goons were christians, Trump definitely isn't one but the supporter base they appeal to are/were christians.

 

[Jazny]

Please sir, make the rain stop
-Adolf Hitler

Think they are more likely to be discussing their mutual hatred of and wish to eradicate Jews.

 

[faible]

Think they are more likely to be discussing their mutual hatred of and wish to eradicate Jews.

The Jews were the 'other' that was used to blame all of the Nation's troubles upon. Without Jews as his target, does Hitler find power?

 

[carltonchelsea]

Nothing is worse than that ****wit at Carlton games with his drums

lol, don’t attend any of your games do you?

 

[evolved2]

You've gone full potatohead here again mate.

Fatima Payman crossed the floor because she is against genocide, and thinks Palestine should be recognised. This relates to her humanity, her ethics, not her religion.

Why do you think most of the media are currently having a brainfart about religion over this position?

That's an interesting summation. How do you know whether her religious views aren't related to her position on Palestine?

One side says they are, one side says they aren't. What's the truth?

 

[evolved2]

Islam is arguably the least progressive religion.

Im not surprised many westerners who are consistently told to support the complete opposite of what some area’s of Islam condemn find it hard to be “tolerant”

Very good point. I wonder why some want us to be tolerant of one of the least tolerant religions.

 

[evolved2]

We are a country that protects religious freedoms. What grounds are there to oppose a mosque just because you don't like the religion?

People don't or should not oppose those things just because they are muslim countries, it's more those specific countries have issues with human rights.

Why do those countries have issues with human rights? Are we allowed to bring Islam into the discussion without being labelled racist for criticising a religion?

 

[Gralin]

Very good point. I wonder why some want us to be tolerant of one of the least tolerant religions.

Are you also cool with antisemitism or do you think that's different?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

That's an interesting summation. How do you know whether her religious views aren't related to her position on Palestine?

One side says they are, one side says they aren't. What's the truth?

Both sides follow the same God. I'd suggest it's a belligerent occupation.

 

[evolved2]

Are you also cool with antisemitism or fo you think that's different?

Of course it's different - Islam is a belief system based on a barbaric sky pixie while Semites are a cultural or ethnic group.

Can you not see the difference?

 

[Gralin]

Of course it's different - Islam is a belief system based on a barbaric sky pixie while Semites are a cultural or ethnic group.

Can you not see the difference?

What group specifically does antisemitism relate to?
And how is that group defined?

 

[Jazny]

Why do those countries have issues with human rights? Are we allowed to bring Islam into the discussion without being labelled racist for criticising a religion?

Depends how you say it, but yes people are very sensitive towards people saying they don't want a whole group of people in Australia and trying to justify it by pointing to the worst muslim majority countries as far as human rights are concerned. I rarely see this said by the same people when it comes to Christianity and pointing to Uganda's human rights.

Human rights in Uganda

Stay up to date on the state of human rights in Uganda with the latest research, campaigns and education material from Amnesty International.

www.amnesty.org

Muslims aren't a homogeneous group of people who all think the same, there is different branches and sects with very different worldviews. So it does feel racist or xenophobic if people are opposing a mosque being built just because they don't want their religion in Australia.

 

[Roylion]

A few years after this young christian lady was throwing Nazi salutes, she was promoted to Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

View attachment 2044424

And of course that same young Christian lady also contributed to the war effort against the Nazis by becoming the first female royal to become a full time member of the British armed services, serving in the Territorial Auxilary Service at the age of 18 as an ambulance and truck driver and mechanic.

 

[evolved2]

What group specifically does antisemitism relate to?
And how is that group defined?

Semitic people - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Gralin]

Semitic people - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What group specifically does antisemitism relate to?
How is that group defined?

 

[Roylion]

What group specifically does antisemitism relate to?

The Semitic race (which is now a completely obsolete term in describing an ethnic, cultural or racial group) was mainly used in a racial sense in Europe in the 19th and 20th centuries by a Germanic school of historians, who also coined other obselete racial groupings such as 'Caucasian', 'Mongol-oid' and 'Negroid', amongst others. (The word was derived from Shem the son of the biblical Noah). The term is still used to describe a language group, but 19th century anthropologists and historians, such as the influential anthropologist Joseph Renan, readily aligned linguistic groupings with ethnicity and culture. Another influentual figure, the Prussian nationalistic historian Heinrcih von Treitschke (who coined the phrase "the Jews are our misfortune") for example, used the term "Semitic" almost synonymously with "Jewish".

The largest group of so called "semites" that lived in Europe in the 19th century were the Jews. Hence the association of the term "anti-semitism" has since been therefore used to describe hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. It became part of the English language from German in 1881 when it was included into the Oxford dictionary, where it is still described as "prejudice, hostility, or discrimination towards Jewish people on religious, cultural, or ethnic grounds.."

 

[Gralin]

The Semitic race [which is now an obsolete term in describing an ethnic, cultural or racial group] was mainly used in a racial sense in Europe in the 19th and 20th centuries by a Germanic school of historians, who also coined other obselete racial groupings such as 'Caucasian', 'Mongol-oid' and 'Negroid', amongst others. The term is still used to describe a language group, but 19th century anthropologists and historians, such as the influential anthropologist Joseph Renan, readily aligned linguistic groupings with ethnicity and culture. Another influentual figure, the Prussian nationalistic historian Heinrcih von Treitschke (who coined the phrase "the Jews are our misfortune") for example, used the term "Semitic" almost synonymously with "Jewish".

The largest group of so called "semites" that lived in Europe in the 19th century were the Jews. Hence the association of the term "anti-semitism" has since been therefore used to describe hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. It became part of the English language from German in 1881 when it was included into the Oxford dictionary, where it is still described as "prejudice, hostility, or discrimination towards Jewish people on religious, cultural, or ethnic grounds.."

Thanks but I'm asking someone else to use their own words not for you to copy paste an answer