Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[carltonchelsea]

Taqiyya

The Quran being inherently a clear and poor plagiarism of the Torah/Pentateuch and Bible mixed with some Arab localism cultural practices and beliefs.
They were smart enough to add a few oddities such as taqiyya and apostasy, something I’m most certain the Catholics would be massively jealous of!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The Quran being inherently a clear and poor plagiarism of the Torah/Pentateuch and Bible mixed with some Arab localism cultural practices and beliefs.
They were smart enough to add a few oddities such as taqiyya and apostasy, something I’m most certain the Catholics would be massively jealous of!

So its like when an international act comes to Australia, and throws in a bit of "How good is it here in Mel-bourne, Go Storm" to bolster local support in the middle of their act again.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Some people don't understand that it is government policy for the population of Australia to grow.
Remember when Costello told everyone to have a baby?

Nobody ever complains that the value of their house has tripled or quadrupled in the last 20 years.
They usually attribute that to hard work. Or some such bullshit.

That Policy doesn't make our lives better , it makes their job easier. Embracing technology and automation is a better solution.

When you say "their house", if you mean the house you live in, it doesn't help you at all unless you want a loan, and your rates have gone up because they are a percentage of value. You can only cash in if you want to move to a retirement home, or die.
If you mean investment houses, well that's part of the problem.

 

[evolved2]

Do any of the defenders of Islam know about the record of human rights in Islamic countries or the Cairo Declaration of human rights (CDHR)?

Some of the posters and mods here are very naive about Islam.

 

[Gralin]

You’re kidding right?
If I burned a Jack Kerouac or a Charles Bukowski book of poetry would that be my right, free speech?
Why are the Quran, Bible, Torah, The Vedas etc. special?
They are just books with words in them, I’d be more offended if Kerouac and Bukowski were burned, they are inherently more important to me than any cult book!

Nazi germany involved a lot of burning of books

burning of books historically has been about removing knowledge

removing access to idea the state deemed dangerous

book burning in the US has historically been white christians burning anything that doesn't agree with their conservative views

so you know, anything progressive, anything critical of religion, anything supportive of gay people, black people, etc

historically burning books isn't free speech which again is why I asked the question

 

[carltonchelsea]

Nazi germany involved a lot of burning of books

burning of books historically has been about removing knowledge

removing access to idea the state deemed dangerous

book burning in the US has historically been white christians burning anything that doesn't agree with their conservative views

so you know, anything progressive, anything critical of religion, anything supportive of gay people, black people, etc

historically burning books isn't free speech which again is why I asked the question

Ya drongo, I’m not calling for the burning of books!
You’ve played yourself sweetie, the burning of books is a human right!
I can burn any book that is my personal preference and property, that is exactly what freedom of speech and expression means.
I don’t care what the Nazis and dopey right wingers in the U.S do, it’s their right to burn books if they want, it literally doesn’t achieve anything.
Burning books is exactly free speech and expression, whether it’s good or bad is another discussion or matter entirely.
Admit you’re wrong Fonzi, I’d like to see you say it!
I’ll help you, “I Gralin am wrrrrrr….

 

[Gralin]

Ya drongo, I’m not calling for the burning of books!
You’ve played yourself sweetie, the burning of books is a human right!
I can burn any book that is my personal preference and property, that is exactly what freedom of speech and expression means.
I don’t care what the Nazis and dopey right wingers in the U.S do, it’s their right to burn books if they want, it literally doesn’t achieve anything.
Burning books is exactly free speech and expression, whether it’s good or bad is another discussion or matter entirely.
Admit you’re wrong Fonzi, I’d like to see you say it!
I’ll help you, “I Gralin am wrrrrrr….

Burning books is a human right?

The history of book burning is generally not one linked to freedom of speech but of censorship

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/the-books-have-been-burning-1.887172

This QAnon Pastor Burned Harry Potter Books Live on Facebook

The Tennessee pastor has also spent the last few years as a COVID denier, anti-vaxxer, and QAnon enthusiast.

www.vice.com

Georgia college students protest author’s message by burning books - The Free Speech Project

freespeechproject.georgetown.edu

 

[Chief]

Burning books is a human right?

It's more his property rights that he is asserting.

If he owns a book, he can burn it if he wants.

Of course the organised destruction of knowledge - via book burning in the past - deprives us of the knowledge therein, and should be considered a violation of rights.

 

[carltonchelsea]

It's more his property rights that he is asserting.

If he owns a book, he can burn it if he wants.

Of course the organised destruction of knowledge - via book burning in the past - deprives us of the knowledge therein, and should be considered a violation of rights.

Right……
If there are 1 million copies of the Quran in Australia and I burn my copy, how am I violating these “rights”?

 

[Gralin]

It's more his property rights that he is asserting.

If he owns a book, he can burn it if he wants.

Of course the organised destruction of knowledge - via book burning in the past - deprives us of the knowledge therein, and should be considered a violation of rights.

I couldn't go out into my backyard and legally burn a pile of my own books right now which has nothing to do with freedom of speech

if i had a fireplace in my house I could chuck books on it and do it because running a wood heater is ok but burning off is illegal where I live

this is of course irrelevant to what burning books is going to bring to mind for most people

 

[carltonchelsea]

To add, there are no laws protecting art or literature, I could buy the rarest of books available, I could buy the entire works of Monet and burn the lot without fear of reprisal from any international or local body.
Sure, my life wouldn’t be worth living for fear of reprisal from parties in disagreement with my actions.
But there are zero Laws governing the act of destroying art/literature etc.

I couldn't go out into my backyard and legally burn a pile of my own books right now which has nothing to do with freedom of speech

if i had a fireplace in my house I could chuck books on it and do it because running a wood heater is ok but burning off is illegal where I live

this is of course irrelevant to what burning books is going to bring to mind for most people

Just admit that you are wrong without running those goalposts all over the field of play, you’re making me dizzy!

 

[Gralin]

To add, there are no laws protecting art or literature, I could buy the rarest of books available, I could buy the entire works of Monet and burn the lot without fear of reprisal from any international or local body.
Sure, my life wouldn’t be worth living for fear of reprisal from parties in disagreement with my actions.
But there are zero Laws governing the act of destroying art/literature etc.


Just admit that you are wrong without running those goalposts all over the field of play, you’re making me dizzy!

I fundamentally disagree that burning books is about freedom of speech

This is not me saying burning books should be illegal

 

[carltonchelsea]

I fundamentally disagree that burning books is about freedom of speech

This is not me saying burning books should be illegal

Jayzuz holy mother of virginal non existence!
If I burn the Torah or Bible or Quran or the complete ****ing works of William Shakespeare that I own because I want to warm my toes, is that my right as a human being?
Forget “speech”, insert expression, is that my right as an agency of humanity?
Answer the question without obfuscating please?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Jayzuz holy mother of virginal non existence!
If I burn the Torah or Bible or Quran or the complete ****ing works of William Shakespeare that I own because I want to warm my toes, is that my right as a human being?
Forget “speech”, insert expression, is that my right as an agency of humanity?
Answer the question without obfuscating please?

The EPA mightn't like the smoke.

 

[Gralin]

Jayzuz holy mother of virginal non existence!
If I burn the Torah or Bible or Quran or the complete ****ing works of William Shakespeare that I own because I want to warm my toes, is that my right as a human being?
Forget “speech”, insert expression, is that my right as an agency of humanity?
Answer the question without obfuscating please?

I already answered it in a post you laughed at

 

[10571z]

Huge protests in UK. This will become more and more common across Europe

 

[JackOutback]

Huge protests in UK. This will become more and more common across Europe

When you say 'huge protests', are you referring to the mob violence by far right extremists fuelled by misinformation online that it was a terrorist act by a migrant when neither is true? And how exactly does that relate to Islam?

 

[sr36]

Jayzuz holy mother of virginal non existence!
If I burn the Torah or Bible or Quran or the complete ****ing works of William Shakespeare that I own because I want to warm my toes, is that my right as a human being?
Forget “speech”, insert expression, is that my right as an agency of humanity?
Answer the question without obfuscating please?

If you're doing it to warm yourself, it's not expression. If you're doing it to make a statement about the contents of the book, it would be freedom of expression. If you're doing it becuase you're trying to erase those words so no one can read them, then it's the opposite of free expression.

 

[carltonchelsea]

I already answered it in a post you laughed at

No you didn’t, you are incapable of owning your wrongness.
It’s cool, I have a missus, even when I’m right, I’m wrong, I have two teenagers, even when I’m right, I’m wrong.
My ability to understand my wrongness even when I know I’m correct has become my superpower!

 

[carltonchelsea]

If you're doing it to warm yourself, it's not expression. If you're doing it to make a statement about the contents of the book, it would be. If you're doing it becuase you're trying to erase those words so no one can read them, then it's the opposite of free expression.

Nonsense, it simply doesn’t matter to anybody what my f’ing motivations are, it’s my right as an individual human to express myself as I see fit within the laws.
Even if that book is the very last of its kind!
I’m not saying it’s right, but it is my right!
I’ve already explained this!
Sure, you could argue it’s a crime against humanity that I blew up some ancient rock art that I knew existed in the hope of making it easier to access precious resources for mining purposes and profit, but good luck take me to some type of Court or finding a Law in which to charge me or my company.
Why is it not a sign of free expression, me destroying a book so that others may not read it?
Explain?

 

[Gralin]

No you didn’t, you are incapable of owning your wrongness.
It’s cool, I have a missus, even when I’m right, I’m wrong, I have two teenagers, even when I’m right, I’m wrong.
My ability to understand my wrongness even when I know I’m correct has become my superpower!

I did answer the question about burning your own books on your own property

you laughed at it

I also pointed out its got nothing to do with freedom of speech

you're saying your right to destroy your own property is freedom of speech and a human right

i'm saying its neither and legally you frequently can still get in trouble for destroying your own property

but we've also strayed from what the thread is meant to be about and we're not going to agree with each other so lets move on

 

[smish]

ASIO lifts terror threat level to 'probable' amid heightened tensions over war in Gaza

Security authorities believe the chances of a violent extremist act are now more likely than when authorities lowered the alert level to "possible" in November 2022.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sr36]

Nonsense, it simply doesn’t matter to anybody what my f’ing motivations are, it’s my right as an individual human to express myself as I see fit within the laws.
Even if that book is the very last of its kind!
I’m not saying it’s right, but it is my right!
I’ve already explained this!
Sure, you could argue it’s a crime against humanity that I blew up some ancient rock art that I knew existed in the hope of making it easier to access precious resources for mining purposes and profit, but good luck take me to some type of Court or finding a Law in which to charge me or my company.
Why is it not a sign of free expression, me destroying a book so that others may not read it?
Explain?

Freedom of expression is referring to opinions.

You're not expressing an opinion by burning a book to warm yourself.

You are expressing an opinion if you are burning a book to make a statement to someone or the world about that book.

If you're burning a book to try to silence someone elses opnion - it's not freedom of expression. The phrase freedom of expression also generally refers to the right to recieve someone else's opinion, which is what is trying to be denied in this example. You're denying the freedom of expression of others with this example

All of that is different to the rights which you're talking about.

 

[Malifice]

To add, there are no laws protecting art or literature, I could buy the rarest of books available, I could buy the entire works of Monet and burn the lot without fear of reprisal from any international or local body.

Not actually true.

https://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legi... destruction of a,place where it was situated.

Creators of artistic works in Australia have the 'Right of integrity of authorship' attached to their works.

Basically this means in some cases you cant destroy or deface them being potentially subject to getting your ass sued under the Copyright Act:

https://www.artslaw.com.au/information-sheet/moral-rights/

 

[Gralin]

ASIO lifts terror threat level to 'probable' amid heightened tensions over war in Gaza

Security authorities believe the chances of a violent extremist act are now more likely than when authorities lowered the alert level to "possible" in November 2022.

www.abc.net.au

That headline from the ABC and the way they have phrased that in actual contradiction to what ASIO is saying is ****ing disgusting

Burgess says ASIO anticipates an increase in politically motivated violence, including terrorism across all ideological spectrums as "polarisation, frustration and perceived injustices grow".

"At this stage, we do not believe any of the terrorist plots we have investigated in the last year have been inspired by Gaza," Mike Burgess says.

"Terrorist leaders offshore are not inspiring attacks onshore."

He says this is why ASIO did not raise the threat level and immediate aftermath of the October 7 terror attack.

"There's plenty of anti-Semitism but there's plenty of Islamophobia at the same time. It's almost equal treatment, not quite, but almost equal treatment," he says.