Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[Malifice]

No one can actually discuss the problems with Islam without being labelled a racist bigot.

Bullshit. Many are raising just those concerns in this thread and are NOT being labelled a bigot. If I wanted to shut or shout you down, I'd just lock or delete the thread and be done with it.

Legitimate concerns and criticisms are OK. Bigots and racists are not. Know where the line is.

Saying I have concerns about Islamic radicalisation is fine. Saying a lack of integration is contributing to radicalisation is fine. Criticising Wahhabist Salaffism is fine. Getting stuck into ISIL is fine. Saying there are issues with the Quran encouraging a fundamentalist reading of itself is fine. Saying Mohammed was a warlord, and the approval of warfare in the Quran is an issue is fine. Saying Islam lacks the ability to reform is fine. Criticising Islamic leaders for homophobic, racist or sexist comments is fine. Critiquing Islams treatment of women is fine. And so on.

I mean, **** me. If you cant find something to be genuinely critical of about Islamic terrorism, without resorting to bigotry, I cant help you.

Know where the line is. Rememeber, we have Muslim readers and they dont need to put up with being labelled barbarians, nazis, scum, or rapists.

If you wouldnt say it to your Muslim colleague at work, without getting hauled up to the HR department and fired, dont say it here. If you want to go full feral or be a bigoted UPF wannabe, take it to another forum.

 

[Scotland]

If you wouldnt say it to your Muslim colleague at work, without getting hauled up to the HR department and fired

Not exactly setting a wide frame of discussion. No one in their right mind would bring up race or religion in the workplace.

 

[Xsess]

Seriously? That is all you got from that article? Here is what I got:
Russia’s total Muslim population is close to triple. Neither countries have experienced large scale terror attacks recently.

Other than a civil war.

 

[Malifice]

Not exactly setting a wide frame of discussion. No one in their right mind would bring up race or religion in the workplace.

Imagine what you'd say on a dinner date with a someone you just met on Tinder who happens to belong to the particular race/religion then.

If its 'Jeeze, your mob are all lazy drunks' or 'Your people are barbaric rapists' or 'Sig Heil' then I hazard a guess you probably dont get much lovin.

 

[Gough]

I worked with a Muslim lady when the Iraq in invasion was on, and it was fascinating to hear her, and her husband's opinions on the whole thing. I found that they were actually keen to talk about it because so many people were reluctant to broach the subject with them.

 

[DemonTim]

Perhaps you cant remember as far back as last weekend when yet another sicko waged violent jihad through the streets of Nice? Proving (as if we needed further "proof") - Hanson's assertion that muslim immigration makes us less safe?

So that's a no to quotes and sources?
We could probably go to an even higher level. All immigration makes us less safe
Actually scratch that. Even higher level, all population growth makes us less safe! Wowe. Such revelation. Much truth.

 

[Gough]

So that's a no to quotes and sources?
We could probably go to an even higher level. All immigration makes us less safe
Actually scratch that. Even higher level, all population growth makes us less safe! Wowe. Such revelation. Much truth.

From today's Graund.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ns-view-of-muslims-the-facts-no-longer-matter

The most troubling aspect of the current debate about Muslims in Australia is that facts are irrelevant.

So despite the fact that Australian Muslims leaders and spokespeople have publicly condemned terrorism and Islamic State again and again and again and again, Pauline Hanson can announce on Q&A that the “Grand Mufti won’t even come out and condemn the terrorist attacks that happened overseas”, and a Glen Iris mother can call ABC Melbourne local radio and say that Muslims need to start condemning terrorism.

These comments have become so commonplace, they’re almost unremarkable.

In fact, Muslims have condemned terrorism and Isis in numerous media reports across the country, and even in media around the world.

In fact, contrary to what is alleged, Muslims have led protests against Isis, Australian imams have issued refutations of terrorism, suicide bombing and fighting in foreign conflict, and a cohort of some of the world’s most esteemed Muslim scholars have issued a point-by-point classical, scholarly refutation of Isis and made it available in 10 languages.

In fact, Muslims have done and continue to do grassroots work within their own community to counter violent extremism and build community cohesion, and they have reported their fellow Muslims to security agencies on numerous occasions when they feared they were a risk to community safety.

In fact, Muslims are some of the largest victims of Isis, in terror attacks like those recently in Baghdad and Medina, and within the Isis-controlled area itself. Isis regularly publishes a hit-list of global Muslim leaders in its online magazine, which certainly helps to explain why Muslims from Syria and Iraq may want to migrate to countries like Australia. These are the people Pauline Hanson and Sonia Kruger want to ban.

And, in fact, in the recent horrific Nice attacks, many of the 84 people killed were Muslim.

This is the most worrisome aspect of a conversation that is always framed in the shielding rhetoric of free speech – the facts make literally no difference.

The core of bigotry is not rational. What this debate shows us is that some people are proudly, adamantly not interested in facts. They don’t even need to try to be. They can talk about fears and feelings, and place no demands on themselves to see if those emotions are reasonable.

This might be unremarkable if the fear was about spiders or heights, but when it is about immigration policy, or the strategies of elected politicians, or directly impacts the citizens (who already report abuse and attack on the streets) of a society, disregarding facts is not just foolish and selfish, it’s downright dangerous.

Muslims in Australia have been pushed into a corner. In a wilful rejection of both facts and fairness, Muslims are screamed at for not doing enough, not saying enough, not being enough, and yet when we do, say, and be exactly what is ordered of us, our accusers stick their fingers in their ears and shout “La la la, I can’t hear you over my shouting accusations that you never condemn terrorism or accept the Australian way of life”.

Especially troubling is the grotesque implications buried within the constant demands for condemnations from Muslims – that unless we publicly come out after each and every event perpetrated by a Muslim unknown to us and already condemned by our faith, the default assumption about us is that we must endorse it. That any silence from us necessarily denotes support and agreement. That the previous 10 times we came out and said murder is wrong, terrorism is an abomination, harming innocents is against our religion, was seen as the exception to our otherwise evil standard. That when we act like full human beings, it is an aberration.

Consider how dehumanising it is to know that with every demand for a fresh condemnation, people are implicitly ascribing to you truly monstrous beliefs as your norm.

That has been my exhausted realisation in these last few years: what Muslims do or say does not change anything. And this is not just a terrifying realisation, but a blinding indictment, as it shows just how insidious the demands on Muslims to alleviate the bigotry of others is.

Because when a group can hold fast to prejudiced ideas in spite of factual evidence to the contrary, while at the same time demanding responses from Muslims which they have shown repeatedly they will ignore, that group has not only offloaded any sense of responsibility for addressing their own bigotry, but have created a water-tight echo chamber for the views they will trumpet from the biggest platforms in the land.

This is why Pauline Hanson has likened Muslims to pit bulls, arguing “We have to take a strong stance against Muslims, strong stance against Islam and its teachings and its beliefs. We have laws here that we don’t bring in pit bull terriers because they’re a danger to our society … we have laws in place to protect Australians … Pressure the government to say no more Muslims in Australia, no more Muslim refugees in Australia.”

And it’s why banning Muslim immigration makes sense to people like Sonia Kruger; there is simply no Muslim that can be trusted, irrespective of however many peaceful Muslim “friends” one may have. Every single Muslim, by virtue of our Muslim-ness, is suspicious. And nothing we do will change that opinion. You have shown us that.

It is horrifying to realise that nothing we do – short of denouncing our religion entirely – can change the unfair beliefs people have about the group to which you belong, at a time when the stakes have never been higher.

Nearly the same number of people voted for One Nation in the Senate as there are Muslims in this country – more than 500,000 to 476,300 – suggesting the debate will only get more impassioned over the coming years. Already there are letters to the editor of the Australian recommending internment of Muslims.

Surely the least we can demand is a fair and factual debate, to remind people like me that this is still a conversation worth having.

 

[Xsess]

I know most Muslims are nice, make positive contributions to society and all of that. But I don't care. Too many are violent west hating loons and the rest of us would be safer if there was a moratorium on Islamic immigration. If that means withdrawing from the UN and reinstating a discriminatory immigration policy then than so be it.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Kruger may be no mental giant, but she is entitled to her opinion, i for one cant wait until we have neighbourhoods here like in parts of France that are Police no go zones because of the fear of confrontation from Muslims, police and gendarmerie cannot enforce the Republican order or even enter without risking confrontation.

The same has happened in parts of England.
Take a trip out Dandenong South and a few surrounding areas.
These will be the first in Melbourne.

 

[Maggie5]

The same has happened in parts of England.
Take a trip out Dandenong South and a few surrounding areas.
These will be the first in Melbourne.

Amy chance we can do a reverse no go in Coburg and keep the guys with the masks out? Terrifying, they all look like bouncers or body builders.

 

[Nikita Blue]

I know most Muslims are nice, make positive contributions to society and all of that. But I don't care. Too many are violent west hating loons and the rest of us would be safer if there was a moratorium on Islamic immigration. If that means withdrawing from the UN and reinstating a discriminatory immigration policy then than so be it.

Damn straight. And of course we also need a wall so that will solve our unemployment problem. Win win.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Amy chance we can do a reverse no go in Coburg and keep the guys with the masks out? Terrifying, they all look like bouncers or body builders.

Can you please rephrase that so I can fully comprehend your true meaning?
Thanks maggs

 

[Scotland]

Imagine what you'd say on a dinner date with a someone you just met on Tinder who happens to belong to the particular race/religion then.

If its 'Jeeze, your mob are all lazy drunks' or 'Your people are barbaric rapists' or 'Sig Heil' then I hazard a guess you probably dont get much lovin.

Poor example.

'Oh so you're Muslim, that's fascinating, tell me more'
'Oh so you're vegan, that's fascinating, tell me more'

 

[Malifice]

Damn straight. And of course we also need a wall so that will solve our unemployment problem. Win win.

Better yet, lets first go with forced repatriation back to where they come from. Any Muslims that dont leave we can put in internment camps and get them working for the war effort. The State can sieze their property and give it to hardworking Australians. This is our country after all.

Its regrettable, but we cant have this 'Nazi Ideology' in our midst.

 

[Malifice]

Poor example.

'Oh so you're Muslim, that's fascinating, tell me more'
'Oh so you're vegan, that's fascinating, tell me more'

See, you can engage in a civil conversation about religion.

 

[Xsess]

Better yet, lets first go with forced repatriation back to where they come from. Any Muslims that dont leave we can put in internment camps and get them working for the war effort. The State can sieze their property and give it to hardworking Australians. This is our country after all.

Its regrettable, but we cant have this 'Nazi Ideology' in our midst.

No need to get all Nazi, a complete immigration moratorium for Muslims is fine. Perhaps a review of our deportation criteria.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Better yet, lets first go with forced repatriation back to where they come from. Any Muslims that dont leave we can put in internment camps and get them working for the war effort. The State can sieze their property and give it to hardworking Australians. This is our country after all.

Its regrettable, but we cant have this 'Nazi Ideology' in our midst.

I think you're drowning in your own opinion.

 

[Garlic muncher]

S

By all reports Larissa, Anne Aly and Susan Carland are lovely people too.
Susan's problem is that she is married to Waleed Aly and gets heaps of abuse but she has turned it into a positive donating $1 for every abuse she receives. She has joking stated that it may send her broke.

Better yet, lets first go with forced repatriation back to where they come from. Any Muslims that dont leave we can put in internment camps and get them working for the war effort. The State can sieze their property and give it to hardworking Australians. This is our country after all.

Its regrettable, but we cant have this 'Nazi Ideology' in our midst.

The alternative where we open our borders and have no go zones and sharia law instigated sounds much better than your solution

 

[Garlic muncher]

I think you're drowning in your own opinion.

He probably needs a couple of kids in photos behind razor wire.

 

[Milkshaker]

She's been a politician since January - what do you think she was doing before that?

Every single time there is a terrorist act anywhere in the world, we have most muftis and leaders in Australia condemning it and one or two nutcases that don't condemn it hard enough which makes the tabloids.

To take your example:
Why when we hear of an act of domestic violence don't we have every man in the country condemning it? Ermagawd complicity!!!

I don't read tabloids. BF is enough form me. I am glad some their leaders condemn it verbally not that I have seen much of that. Will have to take your word for it or I am looking in the wrong places. More than happy to change my stance.

 

[Gough]

S




The alternative where we open our borders and have no go zones and sharia law instigated sounds much better than your solution

Mate you're talking complete crap, Australia will never have an open border policy, and it will never have Sharia Law, and you repeating this sort of nonsense ad nauseum won't make it so.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Mate you're talking complete crap, Australia will never have an open border policy, and it will never have Sharia Law, and you repeating this sort of nonsense ad nauseum won't make it so.

Ok - I hadn't realised I had repeatedly said it as nauseum - In fact I believe I hadn't said anything about Australia - I had linked something about France and no go zones due to Muslim immigration, they have over 100 apparently- would hate to see if here - what do you reckon - would you like it here - because some apologists would, in fact some people try and gloss over all they sort of stuff.

What is your opinion ? , are they just misunderstood boys ?

 

[Gough]

Ok

With under half a million Muslims in Australia tell me how Shara law will be instigated, and which of our partys will open the borders to one, and all? If you're so sure that this will happen, tell me how.

 

[Whit3y]

But this is the world that has been created, not everyone will be saved and children will continue to be born into terrible circumstances from now until the universe decides to kick us off this spinning rock.

the children of africa say hi

havent heard much about there plight lately

 

[Pessimistic]

Krugers main mistake?

Believing an andrew bolt article, where truths, half truths, economical truths and straight falsehoods are indistinguishable fwom each other.

Th article connected large muslim populations in "western" countries with terrorism and admitting refugees

Muslims have been in southern france in significant numbers for centuries, and have a significant input to the local culture

And terrorism is not "new" munich olympics and a speight of airplane hijeckings at that time