Review Winners and losers 2022 draft

[danster168]

I assure you, it is much more satisfying to win two finals and then get an absolute gift in the draft.

Very happy with Will's start, also not going to waste time criticising Sheezel for making a couple of turnovers in a game the entire team got belted. Both have had great starts.

Phillipou and Michalanney have also been fantastic so far, and I'm sure we'll get to see Wardlaw and Tsatas later in the year show their talent.

I'm sure it feels good but there will always be a little asterisk next to teams that have benefited from these sort of gifts. But that's just me. For example, if Ugle-Hagan became the next Buddy and Sam Darcy became the next Roughead and the dogs won the flag off the back of it I'm pretty sure most neutrals would just be like 'meh ok'. Nothing to do with draft or list building skills or trading smarts, just a straight up gift.

Ashcroft looks like he'll be an amazing accumulator aka Josh Ward from Hawthorn. But like Ward, another early draft pick, I haven't seen the hurt factor.

 

[Jeremias]

I'm sure it feels good but there will always be a little asterisk next to teams that have benefited from these sort of gifts. But that's just me. For example, if Ugle-Hagan became the next Buddy and Sam Darcy became the next Roughead and the dogs won the flag off the back of it I'm pretty sure most neutrals would just be like 'meh ok'. Nothing to do with draft or list building skills or trading smarts, just a straight up gift.

Most neutrals?

I suspect you’d be in the very, very small minority on that front.

 

[JasRulz63]

I'm sure it feels good but there will always be a little asterisk next to teams that have benefited from these sort of gifts. But that's just me. For example, if Ugle-Hagan became the next Buddy and Sam Darcy became the next Roughead and the dogs won the flag off the back of it I'm pretty sure most neutrals would just be like 'meh ok'. Nothing to do with draft or list building skills or trading smarts, just a straight up gift.

Ashcroft looks like he'll be an amazing accumulator aka Josh Ward from Hawthorn. But like Ward, another early draft pick, I haven't seen the hurt factor.

So Melbourne's 2021 premiership team has an asterix?

 

[Bald]

I'm sure it feels good but there will always be a little asterisk next to teams that have benefited from these sort of gifts. But that's just me. For example, if Ugle-Hagan became the next Buddy and Sam Darcy became the next Roughead and the dogs won the flag off the back of it I'm pretty sure most neutrals would just be like 'meh ok'. Nothing to do with draft or list building skills or trading smarts, just a straight up gift.

Ashcroft looks like he'll be an amazing accumulator aka Josh Ward from Hawthorn. But like Ward, another early draft pick, I haven't seen the hurt factor.

You could make an argument that most premierships have had gifts along the way.

 

[danster168]

So Melbourne's 2021 premiership team has an asterix?

If someone wants to claim Viney was the difference then that's fair.

 

[Bulldogs85]

I'm sure it feels good but there will always be a little asterisk next to teams that have benefited from these sort of gifts. But that's just me. For example, if Ugle-Hagan became the next Buddy and Sam Darcy became the next Roughead and the dogs won the flag off the back of it I'm pretty sure most neutrals would just be like 'meh ok'. Nothing to do with draft or list building skills or trading smarts, just a straight up gift.

Ashcroft looks like he'll be an amazing accumulator aka Josh Ward from Hawthorn. But like Ward, another early draft pick, I haven't seen the hurt factor.

Doesn’t Melbourne have a few Fathers/sons coming through the system in the next few years.

 

[Bald]

If someone wants to claim Viney was the difference then that's fair.

I think it's fair to say if you never got a priority pick that turned into Scully, you wouldn't have turned Scully's free agency compensation into Hogan that turned into May.

Or are priority picks allowed under Dansters matrix of gifts.

 

[Tom14]

So Melbourne's 2021 premiership team has an asterix?

I reckon I can find at least one asterisk for each of the premiers for the last 20 odd years...

2022 Cats - Hawkins F/S under old F/S rules
2021 Dees - Tanking scandal, priority picks, AFL fudging of the FA compo formula to let them get Brayshaw from Frawley leaving
2019-2020 Tiges - could argue getting Lynch as FA when you were the minor premier isn't exactly doing it the hard way, but legitimate enough under the rules, so maybe no asterisk?
2018 West Coast - Shuey a priority selection in 2008
2017 Tiges - Rance a priority end of round 1 selection in 07
2016 Dogs - F/Ss everywhere
2013-15 Hawks - how many priority picks can one team benefit from?
2012 Swans - Couldn't find an obvious asterisk, was before the academy kicked in so fair play to them. Actually as I edit this I forgot COLA, so asterisked they are.
2011 Cats - lots of F/S with Scarlett, Hawk, etc
2010 Pies - priority pick in Dale Thomas (also special shout out to the Saints with Riewoldt as a priority pick after the AFL changed the Brisbane zone the year before to just exclude the gold coast)
2009 Cats - as above
2008 Hawks - as above
2007 Cats - as above
2006 Eagles - Judd a priority pick
2005 Swans - COLA
2004 Port - concessions for establishment in the comp
01-03 Lions - retention allowance, getting Voss, Acker and others as QLD zone selections, Chris Johnson from the fitzroy merger.

Based on me spending 5 minutes thinking about this I'm ready to say that the 2019-20 tiges are the only premier of the last 20 years that don't have an obvious asterisk so fair play to them!

 

[danster168]

Doesn’t Melbourne have a few Fathers/sons coming through the system in the next few years.

Apparently. but I don't think any are highly rated. Maybe Jeff White's son in a few years. I reckon the dees have had fewer father sons/nga than any other club in the league. Just 1 decent one in 20 years. The pies success is due largely to 2 Daicos' and Darcy Moore. They got Quaynor somehow too. Brisbane have got theirs coming through now. They need to apply the same rule for father sons as they do with the nga. You can have them provided no bid comes in the top 40 for them.

But anyway, back on Ashcroft and Daicos. Ashcroft is more like a josh Ward type. Both quite similar.

 

[Tom14]

I reckon I can find at least one asterisk for each of the premiers for the last 20 odd years...

2022 Cats - Hawkins F/S under old F/S rules
2021 Dees - Tanking scandal, priority picks, AFL fudging of the FA compo formula to let them get Brayshaw from Frawley leaving
2019-2020 Tiges - could argue getting Lynch as FA when you were the minor premier isn't exactly doing it the hard way, but legitimate enough under the rules, so maybe no asterisk?
2018 West Coast - Shuey a priority selection in 2008
2017 Tiges - Rance a priority end of round 1 selection in 07
2016 Dogs - F/Ss everywhere
2013-15 Hawks - how many priority picks can one team benefit from?
2012 Swans - Couldn't find an obvious asterisk, was before the academy kicked in so fair play to them. Actually as I edit this I forgot COLA, so asterisked they are.
2011 Cats - lots of F/S with Scarlett, Hawk, etc
2010 Pies - priority pick in Dale Thomas (also special shout out to the Saints with Riewoldt as a priority pick after the AFL changed the Brisbane zone the year before to just exclude the gold coast)
2009 Cats - as above
2008 Hawks - as above
2007 Cats - as above
2006 Eagles - Judd a priority pick
2005 Swans - COLA
2004 Port - concessions for establishment in the comp
01-03 Lions - retention allowance, getting Voss, Acker and others as QLD zone selections, Chris Johnson from the fitzroy merger.

Based on me spending 5 minutes thinking about this I'm ready to say that the 2019-20 tiges are the only premier of the last 20 years that don't have an obvious asterisk so fair play to them!

I think it's fair to say if you never got a priority pick that turned into Scully, you wouldn't have turned Scully's free agency compensation into Hogan that turned into May.

Or are priority picks allowed under Dansters matrix of gifts.

I forgot Viney, add him to my list of Dees ****

 

[danster168]

I reckon I can find at least one asterisk for each of the premiers for the last 20 odd years...

2022 Cats - Hawkins F/S under old F/S rules
2021 Dees - Tanking scandal, priority picks, AFL fudging of the FA compo formula to let them get Brayshaw from Frawley leaving
2019-2020 Tiges - could argue getting Lynch as FA when you were the minor premier isn't exactly doing it the hard way, but legitimate enough under the rules, so maybe no asterisk?
2018 West Coast - Shuey a priority selection in 2008
2017 Tiges - Rance a priority end of round 1 selection in 07
2016 Dogs - F/Ss everywhere
2013-15 Hawks - how many priority picks can one team benefit from?
2012 Swans - Couldn't find an obvious asterisk, was before the academy kicked in so fair play to them. Actually as I edit this I forgot COLA, so asterisked they are.
2011 Cats - lots of F/S with Scarlett, Hawk, etc
2010 Pies - priority pick in Dale Thomas (also special shout out to the Saints with Riewoldt as a priority pick after the AFL changed the Brisbane zone the year before to just exclude the gold coast)
2009 Cats - as above
2008 Hawks - as above
2007 Cats - as above
2006 Eagles - Judd a priority pick
2005 Swans - COLA
2004 Port - concessions for establishment in the comp
01-03 Lions - retention allowance, getting Voss, Acker and others as QLD zone selections, Chris Johnson from the fitzroy merger.

Based on me spending 5 minutes thinking about this I'm ready to say that the 2019-20 tiges are the only premier of the last 20 years that don't have an obvious asterisk so fair play to them!

Ours was legit. Viney and that's it. The tanking and priority pick thing was literally a decade earlier

 

[Bald]

Ours was legit. Viney and that's it. The tanking and priority pick thing was literally a decade earlier

So? It resulted in you having Steven May..

 

[FB19]

I reckon I can find at least one asterisk for each of the premiers for the last 20 odd years...

2022 Cats - Hawkins F/S under old F/S rules
2021 Dees - Tanking scandal, priority picks, AFL fudging of the FA compo formula to let them get Brayshaw from Frawley leaving
2019-2020 Tiges - could argue getting Lynch as FA when you were the minor premier isn't exactly doing it the hard way, but legitimate enough under the rules, so maybe no asterisk?
2018 West Coast - Shuey a priority selection in 2008
2017 Tiges - Rance a priority end of round 1 selection in 07
2016 Dogs - F/Ss everywhere
2013-15 Hawks - how many priority picks can one team benefit from?
2012 Swans - Couldn't find an obvious asterisk, was before the academy kicked in so fair play to them. Actually as I edit this I forgot COLA, so asterisked they are.
2011 Cats - lots of F/S with Scarlett, Hawk, etc
2010 Pies - priority pick in Dale Thomas (also special shout out to the Saints with Riewoldt as a priority pick after the AFL changed the Brisbane zone the year before to just exclude the gold coast)
2009 Cats - as above
2008 Hawks - as above
2007 Cats - as above
2006 Eagles - Judd a priority pick
2005 Swans - COLA
2004 Port - concessions for establishment in the comp
01-03 Lions - retention allowance, getting Voss, Acker and others as QLD zone selections, Chris Johnson from the fitzroy merger.

Based on me spending 5 minutes thinking about this I'm ready to say that the 2019-20 tiges are the only premier of the last 20 years that don't have an obvious asterisk so fair play to them!

Except the covid flags have a standing asterisk as Mickey Mouse seasons done for financial damage control and supporter mental health

 

[Tom14]

Ours was legit. Viney and that's it. The tanking and priority pick thing was literally a decade earlier

Viney bid-matching was also under the old AFL rules, meant you got him at Pick 26 when he was bid on at pick 7 by Adelaide. Significant enough for an asterisk! Also good of you to ignore the AFL's secret herbs and spices recipe spitting out a first round compo pick for Frawley just when the AFL was invested in Melbourne improving.

Point being - you can find an asterisk basically anywhere for the vast majority of premiers, who cares about it?

 

[Bald]

Viney bid-matching was also under the old AFL rules, meant you got him at Pick 26 when he was bid on at pick 7 by Adelaide. Significant enough for an asterisk! Also good of you to ignore the AFL's secret herbs and spices recipe spitting out a first round compo pick for Frawley just when the AFL was invested in Melbourne improving.

Point being - you can find an asterisk basically anywhere for the vast majority of premiers, who cares about it?

Classic Danster own goal.

 

[Tom14]

Except the covid flags have a standing asterisk as Mickey Mouse seasons done for financial damage control and supporter mental health

Excellent, we get to strike off 2021 Dees and 2020 tiges. Just need to find a good enough asterisk for the 2019 tiges and I'm willing to declare all premiers in history as having an asterisk, as any flag before the last 20 years basically occurred in an environment of minimal salary cap enforcement (see 1995).

 

[FB19]

Excellent, we get to strike off 2021 Dees and 2020 tiges. Just need to find a good enough asterisk for the 2020 tiges and I'm willing to declare all premiers in history as having an asterisk, as any flag before the last 20 years basically occurred in an environment of minimal salary cap enforcement (see 1995).

You mean 2019 right? Surely the first grand final against an expansion team with no supporters counts?

 

[Tom14]

You mean 2019 right? Surely the first grand final against an expansion team with no supporters counts?

Yeah typo.

Reckon GWS being the opponent is a bit of a borderline asterisk. But that and getting Lynch in ready made rather than doing it as Danster would like, i.e. via sucking for years and drafting players, probably gets us almost to the point of declaring an asterisk for 2019.

 

[Bald]

You mean 2019 right? Surely the first grand final against an expansion team with no supporters counts?

Melbourne tank resulted in Richmond getting the norm smith medalist.

Good enough it’ll do.

 

[danster168]

Viney bid-matching was also under the old AFL rules, meant you got him at Pick 26 when he was bid on at pick 7 by Adelaide. Significant enough for an asterisk! Also good of you to ignore the AFL's secret herbs and spices recipe spitting out a first round compo pick for Frawley just when the AFL was invested in Melbourne improving.

Point being - you can find an asterisk basically anywhere for the vast majority of premiers, who cares about it?

Today, if a bid came at pick 7, clubs just accrue a bunch of later picks because the draft pick calculator is so distorted that an accumulation of trash picks apparently equals treasure so we'd just do the same again.

Yes all clubs have been fortunate in some way. But you can't compare a club who has 1 father son is the same as a club that has 3 or 5 or even more. The asterisks are not the same size. The dees have been the least fortunate of any club. Pies and Brisbane are behind the Bulldogs as teams that have had multiple free hits.

 

[Bald]

Today, if a bid came at pick 7, clubs just accrue a bunch of later picks because the draft pick calculator is so distorted that an accumulation of trash picks apparently equals treasure so we'd just do the same again.

Yes all clubs have been fortunate in some way. But you can't compare a club who has 1 father son is the same as a club that has 3 or 5 or even more. The asterisks are not the same size. The dees have been the least fortunate of any club. Pies and Brisbane are behind the Bulldogs as teams that have had multiple free hits.

How were you less fortunate than Richmond?

 

[FB19]

Yeah typo.

Reckon GWS being the opponent is a bit of a borderline asterisk. But that and getting Lynch in ready made rather than doing it as Danster would like, i.e. via sucking for years and drafting players, probably gets us almost to the point of declaring an asterisk for 2019.

Also didn’t the AFL put the kibosh on the deal that would have sent Martin to GWS meaning they would have won 2016-2017-2019 at a minimum as Martin doesn’t lose grand finals? That sort of overlord interference must tarnish the premierships surely?

 

[JasRulz63]

Today, if a bid came at pick 7, clubs just accrue a bunch of later picks because the draft pick calculator is so distorted that an accumulation of trash picks apparently equals treasure so we'd just do the same again.

Yes all clubs have been fortunate in some way. But you can't compare a club who has 1 father son is the same as a club that has 3 or 5 or even more. The asterisks are not the same size. The dees have been the least fortunate of any club. Pies and Brisbane are behind the Bulldogs as teams that have had multiple free hits.

So it's agreed, Melbourne's premiership comes with an asterix just like the rest of them.

I forgot Viney, add him to my list of Dees ****

Don't forget the $2mil+ bail out package Melbourne were given so they could parachute in Paul Roos on a multi million dollar contract for a succession plan that involved eventual premiership winning coach Simon Goodwin. The same year they were fined for "not tanking" IIRC.

 

[Wild Bill]

1. So introducing context to refute the clear claim that Sheezel is better than Ashcroft is suddenly putting the other down? Be consistent, please.

2. On ball roles aren't directly measurable by contested possessions. In any case, better avoid trying to make any sort of conextual argument, lest you be accused of putting a player down. Again. Be consistent.

He goes into a lot of centre bounces is not clear context to refute anything. I did laugh at how wingman McCluggage got pushed out of the centre bournces to the position he plays - on the wing!!

But Sheezel has polled coaches votes in 3 of his 5 games played - Ash just the once. The coaches believe he has played at a higher level and why he is the fav to win the rising star.

 

[Saab NLAW]

I think it's fair to say if you never got a priority pick that turned into Scully, you wouldn't have turned Scully's free agency compensation into Hogan that turned into May.

Or are priority picks allowed under Dansters matrix of gifts.

Nice try champ but Scully wasn't the priority pick, he was always going to go at #1

Try some other angle, we feel the same way about danster