Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

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Scotland said:
Right now we're doing both. We're consuming as much coal as we did 30 years ago and exporting almost 3 times as much. We're using roughly the same amount of oil and about 50% more gas. Population is roughly 50% higher than it was. People seem to think per capita numbers mean something. They don't.

Coal sucks. It was superseded years ago by natural gas as a cleaner fuel source for electricity generation. No one with half a brain should want to bring it back.

The impact of producing battery metals is known. I'm not really concerned about that as metals can generally be recycled and the whole idea of producing EVs is the impact is limited after production, whereas a diesel or gasoline engine will produce ongoing emissions throughout the fossil fuel supply chain. That same impact obviously isn't there if you are just going to use gas or coal to charge EVs anyway. I look forward to the share of EVs on the road growing each year as it will improve air quality in towns and cities. But realistically the environmental impact is being moved, not removed.

The real impact of producing EVs is that auto manufacturers don't actually care about sustainability and either do most car buyers. There is nothing it for Toyota or VW or whoever to make cars that people keep for 10 or 20 years to offset the impact of producing them. They want cars rolling off the line year on year, whether they are EVs or not and regardless of where the raw materials come from. Battery swapping, battery recycling etc. are good ideas but who is really on board? People don't take their 10 or 15 year old cars in for an engine reconditioning any more, they just buy a new car. I don't see EVs changing that behaviour just by being EVs. How many people that own a 10 year old Tesla today would rather have a new battery over a new Tesla? Not many I would guess.

I'm not sure most people understand the gravity of what not using fossil fuels actually looks like. There's about 20 million tonnes of copper produced in the world each year and to reach 2050 net zero targets that needs to be 50. That is huge. Basically the biggest copper mine in the world another 20 or 25 times over. Projects of that size take up to 5-10 years to get off the ground.

Perth/South West WA has about 4 GW of gas/coal, 1 GW of wind and heaps of small solar, maybe 2 GW total. Record demand is a bit over 4 GW. There is currently about a 200 MW battery system at the old Kwinana power station site, so there would need to be another 20 of those to match peak demand. It's a significant undertaking, which people don't want to pay for. Running rooftop solar and having free power during the day is great but people still expect 24/7 power in all weather.

I'm not saying not to do any of this. Just that we're a bit further away from where people think we are.
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It's a total waste of time using facts and logic with the members of the woke religion but I applaud the effort.
 
Kram said:
It's a total waste of time using facts and logic with the members of the woke religion but I applaud the effort.
Click to expand...

Chemistry used to be about facts and logic. In the current VCE curriculum there are 24 mentions of 'green', 58 mentions of 'sustainable', 18 mentions of 'Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander'.

Only 7 mentions of the Periodic Table.
 
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Frank Bunn said:
Chemistry used to be about facts and logic. In the current VCE curriculum there are 24 mentions of 'green', 58 mentions of 'sustainable', 18 mentions of 'Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander'.

Only 7 mentions of the Periodic Table.
Click to expand...
Yes there isn't as big a focus in education today on really useful stuff like memorising the periodic table. It's awful.
 

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Scotland said:
Right now we're doing both. We're consuming as much coal as we did 30 years ago and exporting almost 3 times as much. We're using roughly the same amount of oil and about 50% more gas. Population is roughly 50% higher than it was. People seem to think per capita numbers mean something. They don't.

Coal sucks. It was superseded years ago by natural gas as a cleaner fuel source for electricity generation. No one with half a brain should want to bring it back.

The impact of producing battery metals is known. I'm not really concerned about that as metals can generally be recycled and the whole idea of producing EVs is the impact is limited after production, whereas a diesel or gasoline engine will produce ongoing emissions throughout the fossil fuel supply chain. That same impact obviously isn't there if you are just going to use gas or coal to charge EVs anyway. I look forward to the share of EVs on the road growing each year as it will improve air quality in towns and cities. But realistically the environmental impact is being moved, not removed.

The real impact of producing EVs is that auto manufacturers don't actually care about sustainability and either do most car buyers. There is nothing it for Toyota or VW or whoever to make cars that people keep for 10 or 20 years to offset the impact of producing them. They want cars rolling off the line year on year, whether they are EVs or not and regardless of where the raw materials come from. Battery swapping, battery recycling etc. are good ideas but who is really on board? People don't take their 10 or 15 year old cars in for an engine reconditioning any more, they just buy a new car. I don't see EVs changing that behaviour just by being EVs. How many people that own a 10 year old Tesla today would rather have a new battery over a new Tesla? Not many I would guess.

I'm not sure most people understand the gravity of what not using fossil fuels actually looks like. There's about 20 million tonnes of copper produced in the world each year and to reach 2050 net zero targets that needs to be 50. That is huge. Basically the biggest copper mine in the world another 20 or 25 times over. Projects of that size take up to 5-10 years to get off the ground.

Perth/South West WA has about 4 GW of gas/coal, 1 GW of wind and heaps of small solar, maybe 2 GW total. Record demand is a bit over 4 GW. There is currently about a 200 MW battery system at the old Kwinana power station site, so there would need to be another 20 of those to match peak demand. It's a significant undertaking, which people don't want to pay for. Running rooftop solar and having free power during the day is great but people still expect 24/7 power in all weather.

I'm not saying not to do any of this. Just that we're a bit further away from where people think we are.
Click to expand...
Battery technology is going to move pretty quickly - probably away from many of the current metals, but agree that Australia won't hit targets as we're not willing to spend on infrastructure - too long term for our 4 year election cycles.
 
sr36 said:
Yes there isn't as big a focus in education today on really useful stuff like memorising the periodic table. It's awful.
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Chemistry is a hard science. It relies on objective empirical data, repeatable experimentation, and rigorous methods of testing hypotheses. The periodic table is intrinsic in understanding the study of substances, their properties, reactions, and how they combine to form new compounds.

'Green' and 'sustainable' are subjective measures. Any discussion of them belongs in the realm of social science, where it might incorporate economics, politics and psychology.

The inclusion of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander 'knowledge' in a hard science curriculum is pure wokeness.
 
Frank Bunn said:
Chemistry is a hard science. It relies on objective empirical data, repeatable experimentation, and rigorous methods of testing hypotheses. The periodic table is intrinsic in understanding the study of substances, their properties, reactions, and how they combine to form new compounds.

'Green' and 'sustainable' are subjective measures. Any discussion of them belongs in the realm of social science, where it might incorporate economics, politics and psychology.

The inclusion of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander 'knowledge' in a hard science curriculum is pure wokeness.
Click to expand...
Your complaints are silly. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Of course the periodic table is still central to the study of chemistry. But modern chemistry exams require less memorisation of the periodic table and more showing of an understanding of how it relates to real world problems than it used to. More higher order thinking skills related to application. Thus questions relate to that. It's only the low order questions that would contain the phrase the periodic table. Students are expected to show their understanding of the periodic table and how elements interact in questions that don't contain the phrase the periodic table..

Sustainability is a major concept in all sciences with in terms of the environment and not.
 
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Okay.

The way education is broken up in VCE units is into Areas of Study, with each unit having 1: Area of Study 1 and 2 for Units 1 and 2, 3 and 4. In Unit 1, AOS1 is as follows:
Unit 1: How can the diversity of materials be explained?

The development and use of materials for specific purposes is an important human endeavour. In this unit students investigate the chemical structures and properties of a range of materials, including covalent compounds, metals, ionic compounds and polymers. They are introduced to ways that chemical quantities are measured. They consider how manufacturing innovations lead to more sustainable products being produced for society through the use of renewable raw materials and a transition from a linear economy towards a circular economy.

Students conduct practical investigations involving the reactivity series of metals, separation of mixtures by chromatography, use of precipitation reactions to identify ionic compounds, determination of empirical formulas, and synthesis of polymers.

Throughout this unit students use chemistry terminology including symbols, formulas, chemical nomenclature and equations to represent and explain observations and data from their own investigations and to evaluate the chemistry-based claims of others.

A student-directed research investigation into the sustainable production or use of a selected material is to be undertaken in Area of Study 3. The investigation explores how sustainability factors such as green chemistry principles and the transition to a circular economy are considered in the production of materials to ensure minimum toxicity and impacts on human health and the environment. The investigation draws on key knowledge and key science skills from Area of Study 1 and/or Area of Study 2.

Area of Study 1

How do the chemical structures of materials explain their properties and reactions?

In this area of study students focus on elements as the building blocks of useful materials. They investigate the structures, properties and reactions of carbon compounds, metals and ionic compounds, and use chromatography to separate the components of mixtures. They use metal recycling as a context to explore the transition in manufacturing processes from a linear economy to a circular economy.

The selection of learning contexts should allow students to develop practical techniques to investigate the properties and reactions of various materials. Students develop their skills in the use of scientific equipment and apparatus. Students may conduct flame tests to identify elements in the periodic table. They may model covalent, metallic and ionic structures using simple ball-and-stick models and may use computer simulations of the three-dimensional representations of molecules and lattices to better understand structures. They use solubility tables to experimentally identify unknown ions in solution. They respond to challenges such as developing their own reactivity series by reacting samples of metals with acids, oxygen and water.

Outcome 1

On completion of this unit the student should be able to explain how elements form carbon compounds, metallic lattices and ionic compounds, experimentally investigate and model the properties of different materials, and use chromatography to separate the components of mixtures.

To achieve this outcome the student will draw on key knowledge outlined in Area of Study 1 and the related key science skills on pages 11 and 12 of the study design.


Key knowledge

Elements and the periodic table

the definitions of elements, isotopes and ions, including appropriate notation: atomic number; mass number; and number of protons, neutrons and electrons

the periodic table as an organisational tool to identify patterns and trends in, and relationships between, the structures (including shell and subshell electronic configurations and atomic radii) and properties (including electronegativity, first ionisation energy, metallic and non-metallic character and reactivity) of elements

critical elements (for example, helium, phosphorus, rare-earth elements and post-transition metals and metalloids) and the importance of recycling processes for element recovery

Covalent substances

the use of Lewis (electron dot) structures, structural formulas and molecular formulas to model the following molecules: hydrogen, oxygen, chlorine, nitrogen, hydrogen chloride, carbon dioxide, water, ammonia, methane, ethane and ethene

shapes of molecules (linear, bent, pyramidal, and tetrahedral, excluding bond angles) as determined by the repulsion of electron pairs according to valence shell electron pair repulsion (VSEPR) theory

polar and non-polar character with reference to the shape of the molecule

the relative strengths of intramolecular bonding (covalent bonding) and intermolecular forces (dispersion forces, dipole-dipole attraction and hydrogen bonding)

physical properties of molecular substances (including melting points and boiling points and non-conduction of electricity) with reference to their structure and bonding

the structure and bonding of diamond and graphite that explain their properties (including heat conductivity and electrical conductivity and hardness) and their suitability for diverse applications

Reactions of metals

the common properties of metals (lustre, malleability, ductility, melting point, heat conductivity and electrical conductivity) with reference to the nature of metallic bonding and the existence of metallic crystals

experimental determination of a reactivity series of metals based on their relative ability to undergo oxidation with water, acids and oxygen

metal recycling as an example of a circular economy where metal is mined, refined, made into a product, used, disposed of via recycling and then reprocessed as the same original product or repurposed as a new product

Reactions of ionic compounds

the common properties of ionic compounds (brittleness, hardness, melting point, difference in electrical conductivity in solid and molten liquid states), with reference to the nature of ionic bonding and crystal structure

deduction of the formula and name of an ionic compound from its component ions, including polyatomic ions (NH4+, OH‾, NO3‾, HCO3‾, CO32‾, SO42‾ and PO43‾)

the formation of ionic compounds through the transfer of electrons from metals to non-metals, and the writing of ionic compound formulas, including those containing polyatomic ions and transition metal ions

the use of solubility tables to predict and identify precipitation reactions between ions in solution, represented by balanced full and ionic equations including the state symbols: (s), (l), (aq) and (g)

Separation and identification of the components of mixtures

polar and non-polar character with reference to the solubility of polar solutes dissolving in polar solvents, and non-polar solutes dissolving in non-polar solvents

experimental application of chromatography as a technique to determine the composition and purity of different types of substances, including calculation of Rf values.
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... with knowledge of the periodic table being the first ****ing thing assessed.

This makes sense, because from what I've read - I'm not a science teacher; if Frank Bunn is, they'd do well to share it - unit 3's an inquiry unit using a case study; while you might look at the notions of first nation's chemistry as something to giggle at due to... whatever, (let's be restrained for the time being, shall we?) Unit 3 begins with students using what was learnt in AOS 1 and 2 to assess the level of chemistry presented to them in first nations methods.

It's a ****ing case study. You're whinging about a case study. Science is observation of what's observable and repeatable using case studies. ****'s sake.

You then have their exam as external assessment for unit 4. Unit 1 is on the periodic table; unit 2 is on classification ("How are materials quantified and classified?") and unit 3 is an inquiry using a case study.

This is, quite singularly, taking a ****ing hillock and turning it into ****ing Everest.
 
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Frank Bunn said:
Labor's NBN for regional areas going well - NOT.

Starlink outperforming so much that NBN is considering replacing the crappy Sky Muster satellites with Elon's low orbit service.

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You realise that musk is servicing the entire world with a service. That’s how a LEO works.

You can’t service a single country with LEO in a cost efficient manner as the satellites are only over that one part of the earth for a fleeting time.

Putting up tens of thousands of satellites is cost prohibitive unless you are collecting income from most of their track.

So we used the best system there was at the time and instead of putting more up, we realised that starlink was coming and saved billions by waiting for the better option.

Starlink is amazing, I own a bunch of them on sites around Western Australia - but they have a huge limitation compared to fibre…. Upload….. nbn fibre can have upload speed as fast as download - 1000/1000.

Starlink is limited to 25 - sounds like enough to a neophyte.. I saw you earlier in the thread waffling on how 100 down was enough for anyone. Typical ignorant comment - put 100/40 behind a vpn - which every company i have anything to do with these days and 100/40 becomes 2/0.5. On a good day.

Physics is a thing.
 

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kranky al said:
Starlink is limited to 25 - sounds like enough to a neophyte.. I saw you earlier in the thread waffling on how 100 down was enough for anyone. Typical ignorant comment - put 100/40 behind a vpn - which every company i have anything to do with these days and 100/40 becomes 2/0.5. On a good day.
Click to expand...

We've gone off topic but it wasn't me who first brought up the NBN. Just to humour you I did a quick test. Maybe I was having a good day ;)

No VPN.

1733638212635.png

With VPN.

1733638258488.png
 

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Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

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