Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

[Gethelred]

Wrong.

The point I made is that companies and or govts. can't or shouldn't force market direction.

I made that point clear in the original post from myself in that discussion.

Shouldn't is silly, can't is point blank ahistorical.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If there was no government intervention there would be very few EVs if any.

It isn't market forces that is phasing out fossil fuels. Just like it wasn't market forces that got rid of CFCs.

Occasionally, humans come to together and agree to do/not to do things for the betterment of the planet, and that involves government intervention.

Whatever term one wants to use, 'people ' 'collectively ' WILL adopt evs and renewables at scale ( when tech is ready). It's not an if but when.

 

[kranky al]

But it's a cheap and mature technology. Why would we replace it? If the new technology was better it wouldn't have needed government intervention.

Ffs you know nothing.

The liberal government bought enough copper to circle the earth to prove that the old copper would work.

And like every single other country in the world that had prior to us tried to make it work, we failed and are now replacing the copper we bought and installed with fibre.

We’ve wasted about 50 billion dollars doing so.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Copper is outdated internet technology.

If you're streaming 4K you either don't have full copper, or you're insanely lucky with your ADSL speeds.

Copper is absolutely fine over short distances. FTTN, FTTC and VDSL can offer speeds from 25 Mbps to 100 Mbps, which is enough for WFH, streaming and gaming. Those technologies are a lot cheaper and quicker to roll out than fibre to every premise.

Labor have quietly dropped their commitment to connect every premise with fibre. I can see the green NBN cabinet across the street. They quoted $11,000 to connect me. Some blokes got on my roof and said they couldn't get a fixed wireless signal. The NBN satellite plans were shithouse - 250 Gb limit and best speed of 25 Mbps. So I signed up with Starlink. Unlimited data and speeds of over 300 Mbps. Some NBN satellite plans now have unlimited data but it wouldn't have happened without Starlink providing that competition.

 

[sr36]

Whatever term one wants to use, 'people ' 'collectively ' WILL adopt evs and renewables at scale ( when tech is ready). It's not an if but when.

I agree, but it's also pretty clear that that is happening sooner due to a huge range of government intervention around the world from subsidies to research grants, tax, legislation, carbon credit schemes, etc.

 

[peetoo]

Ffs you know nothing.

The liberal government bought enough copper to circle the earth to prove that the old copper would work.

And like every single other country in the world that had prior to us tried to make it work, we failed and are now replacing the copper we bought and installed with fibre.

We’ve wasted about 50 billion dollars doing so.

Much more than they got for selling telstra


Anyway alp was never fttp everywhere, just at a higher proportion than LNP

 

[Gough]

"Left wing milk" this guy is beyond parody.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

"Left wing milk" this guy is beyond parody.

Cows are left wing. He'll need to milk some bulls.

 

[faible]

Ffs you know nothing.

The liberal government bought enough copper to circle the earth to prove that the old copper would work.

And like every single other country in the world that had prior to us tried to make it work, we failed and are now replacing the copper we bought and installed with fibre.

We’ve wasted about 50 billion dollars doing so.

Apologies if you didn't notice the deep sarcasm when I posted that.

The LNP rehash of the NBN was a total and utter waste of time and money, I agree.

 

[faible]

Copper is absolutely fine over short distances. FTTN, FTTC and VDSL can offer speeds from 25 Mbps to 100 Mbps, which is enough for WFH, streaming and gaming. Those technologies are a lot cheaper and quicker to roll out than fibre to every premise.

Labor have quietly dropped their commitment to connect every premise with fibre. I can see the green NBN cabinet across the street. They quoted $11,000 to connect me. Some blokes got on my roof and said they couldn't get a fixed wireless signal. The NBN satellite plans were shithouse - 250 Gb limit and best speed of 25 Mbps. So I signed up with Starlink. Unlimited data and speeds of over 300 Mbps. Some NBN satellite plans now have unlimited data but it wouldn't have happened without Starlink providing that competition.

Sure, if you're trying to argue that connecting 100% of Australian premises via fibre isn't practical, that's fine.

But arguing that Starlink is superior to the fibre infrastructure for 100% of Australian premises is idiotic.

Starlink is good for those it's suitable for. Fibre infrastructure covers a lot more people in this country, providing a large amount of futureproofing. I can already go to 1000 Mbps on my connection, and actually get it.

Your argument seems to come down to 'NBN didn't work well for me therefore it's a waste of time for everyone' which is a silly argument because there's heaps of infrastructure in this country that I don't use, and will probably never use, but that I'd agree is important and necessary for the overall benefit of Australians.

 

[sr36]

"Left wing milk" this guy is beyond parody.

He's right though. It's got to the stage that the only place you can find proper milk is everywhere. It used to be far more widespread than that.

 

[Mofra]

He's right though. It's got to the stage that the only place you can find proper milk is everywhere. It used to be far more widespread than that.

Poor bloke just wants to quickly pop into the shops without getting confused.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Sure, if you're trying to argue that connecting 100% of Australian premises via fibre isn't practical, that's fine.

But arguing that Starlink is superior to the fibre infrastructure for 100% of Australian premises is idiotic.

Starlink is good for those it's suitable for. Fibre infrastructure covers a lot more people in this country, providing a large amount of futureproofing. I can already go to 1000 Mbps on my connection, and actually get it.

Your argument seems to come down to 'NBN didn't work well for me therefore it's a waste of time for everyone' which is a silly argument because there's heaps of infrastructure in this country that I don't use, and will probably never use, but that I'd agree is important and necessary for the overall benefit of Australians.

How many straw men can you fit into one post?

Like I said, I went with Starlink because NBN wouldn't connect me, and the satellite plans were shithouse. I'm not exactly Robinson Crusoe in this regard. Starlink now has over 200,000 subscribers in Australia. It is huge shift to go from 10 Mbps to 300 Mbps.

NBN have admitted that the competition from Starlink forced them to upgrade their plans. It was probably the one area the government monopoly could not control.

Australian government has become their biggest customer. The NSW Rural Fire Service is installing Starlink on thousands of fire trucks and vehicles, providing communications and location-finding, and allowing them to live stream video of fires from anywhere in the state. The total project will cost $69 million. WA Police have a $8.5 million project to equip 550 regional police vehicles with Starlink. There are plans to install Starlink on 50 naval vessels.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I agree, but it's also pretty clear that that is happening sooner due to a huge range of government intervention around the world from subsidies to research grants, tax, legislation, carbon credit schemes, etc.

That's the intent yes, but who's to say it would be going just as fast IF there wasn't force?

We can only speculate, in any case where going into semantics about whether or not 'forcing' works. When really it doesn't matter.

The market (the people - at scale) will decide when they're ready, not when attempted govt. coercion says so.

If govt. said you must barrack for carlton, you ain't gonna.

 

[Scotland]

Weird discussion.

For the time being EVs and ICE cars are available for sale and most people still buy ICE cars.

EVs account for 6-7% of total sales and grew about 2% this year. Most people don't buy EVs because they are comparatively more expensive and seen as less reliable/flexible. If the govt bans sales of new ICE cars or whacks huge tariffs on them, sales will fall. If it becomes a choice between an ICE car or an equivalent EV for the same price, buying habits will be impacted. Likewise if we sit and do nothing (as usual) and the EU, Japan, Korea stop making things we buy we will obviously stop buying them.

Currently 8 of the top 10 selling cars are utes or SUVs. Two are EVs with one being a Tesla (good) and one being an MG (cheap). Australians are not by and large environmentally conscious car buyers. Our electricity prices are a bit lower than Europe and our fuel prices are a lot lower. We're closer to the USA in terms of our buying and driving habits.

 

[peetoo]

Poor bloke just wants to quickly pop into the shops without getting confused.

Lefty gramdma

 

[sr36]

Weird discussion.

For the time being EVs and ICE cars are available for sale and most people still buy ICE cars.

EVs account for 6-7% of total sales and grew about 2% this year. Most people don't buy EVs because they are comparatively more expensive and seen as less reliable/flexible. If the govt bans sales of new ICE cars or whacks huge tariffs on them, sales will fall. If it becomes a choice between an ICE car or an equivalent EV for the same price, buying habits will be impacted. Likewise if we sit and do nothing (as usual) and the EU, Japan, Korea stop making things we buy we will obviously stop buying them.

Currently 8 of the top 10 selling cars are utes or SUVs. Two are EVs with one being a Tesla (good) and one being an MG (cheap). Australians are not by and large environmentally conscious car buyers. Our electricity prices are a bit lower than Europe and our fuel prices are a lot lower. We're closer to the USA in terms of our buying and driving habits.

I doubt anyone would debate any of that. And not much will change if none of that changes. But if you're betting on nothing changing in terms of Ev technology, regulations, and thus the market, you're very likely to do your dough.

 

[kranky al]

I doubt anyone would debate any of that. And not much will change if none of that changes. But if you're betting on nothing changing in terms of Ev technology, regulations, and thus the market, you're very likely to do your dough.

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[peetoo]

2.4M views · 24K reactions | Electric battery swapping in China is a game-changer! ⚡ So quick, so convenient! 🚗🔋 #BatterySwap #EVRevolution #ChinaInnovation #SustainableTravel #fy | By Go Chengdu | Facebook

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The shareable e scooters and e bikes use this extensively. Probably Uber eats and the like bikes do this too

 

[peetoo]

What. THE holiday surcharge goes to penalty rates for staff?

Is this woman stupid or just thinks her right leaning anti woke voters are? Voice referendum TICK

Liberal Senator Hollie Hughes said Australians had rejected the concept of businesses engaging in political debate, in reference to the hospitality giant potentially enforcing a 15 percent surcharge or more for public holiday.

"Corporate activism has reached peak stupidity and Australians have voted against it during the Voice referendum and should vote against this rubbish with their wallets," Ms Hughes told Sky News.

"If the called-Australian Venue Co wants to charge a surcharge, I am assuming their corporate conscious is seeing them donating those funds to an indigenous charity or is it just a profit grab?"

 

[faible]

What. THE holiday surcharge goes to penalty rates for staff?

Is this woman stupid or just thinks her right leaning anti woke voters are? Voice referendum TICK

Liberal Senator Hollie Hughes said Australians had rejected the concept of businesses engaging in political debate, in reference to the hospitality giant potentially enforcing a 15 percent surcharge or more for public holiday.

"Corporate activism has reached peak stupidity and Australians have voted against it during the Voice referendum and should vote against this rubbish with their wallets," Ms Hughes told Sky News.

"If the called-Australian Venue Co wants to charge a surcharge, I am assuming their corporate conscious is seeing them donating those funds to an indigenous charity or is it just a profit grab?"

https://www.skynews.com.au/lifestyle/trending/corporate-activism-has-reached-peak-stupidity-pub-giant-may-still-enforce-public-holiday-surcharge-after-backflipping-on-australia-day-ban/news-story/bcd63b7a2f27bb75e515ddfd011a63cb

The only source I can find is a Sky News article. They're sooking about the venue charging more for public holidays, because staff must be paid more on public holidays (and Sundays).

Apparently AVC initially said to venue managers not to celebrate Australia Day - but has since backflipped.

Hospitality group apologises after reportedly telling pubs not to celebrate Australia Day

A national company appears to walk back a reported notice to venue managers about celebrating Australia Day on January 26, saying in a statement its comments caused "concern and confusion".

www.abc.net.au

 

[sr36]

https://www.skynews.com.au/lifestyle/trending/corporate-activism-has-reached-peak-stupidity-pub-giant-may-still-enforce-public-holiday-surcharge-after-backflipping-on-australia-day-ban/news-story/bcd63b7a2f27bb75e515ddfd011a63cb

The only source I can find is a Sky News article. They're sooking about the venue charging more for public holidays, because staff must be paid more on public holidays (and Sundays).

Apparently AVC initially said to venue managers not to celebrate Australia Day - but has since backflipped.

Hospitality group apologises after reportedly telling pubs not to celebrate Australia Day

A national company appears to walk back a reported notice to venue managers about celebrating Australia Day on January 26, saying in a statement its comments caused "concern and confusion".

www.abc.net.au

Oh no. Not only does Christmas stuff start earlier and earlier every year. But so too does the Australia Day debate.

Just give us a public holiday time get pissed, who cares when. I think we're down to 67 people in the country who would be upset if the date changed, but it'll still be front page discussion for over a month.

 

[Kram]

Oh no. Not only does Christmas stuff start earlier and earlier every year. But so too does the Australia Day debate.

Just give us a public holiday time get pissed, who cares when. I think we're down to 67 people in the country who would be upset if the date changed, but it'll still be front page discussion for over a month.

Just make it the last Friday in January.

 

[Scotland]

I don't understand the disjointed posts above.

Public holiday surcharges are already a thing, as are penalty rates.

Definitely questionable whether public holiday surcharges are justified when you factor in prices and overall cost base. If you run a 7 day hospo business and your wages are 150% Sat 200% Sun then your overall wages for the week are anywhere from 20% higher if you have the same number of staff on every day to 50-100% higher if you have double the number of staff on weekends. Maybe 40 or 50% of your staff costs are on the weekend but then how much of your turnover is also? Not many pubs open just Monday to Friday to save costs. The other costs of inventory, utilities and most importantly rent are spread out so have nothing to do with weekends or public holidays. I think most people would be shocked to find out how much retail and hospo leases actually cost.

 

[sr36]

Just make it the last Friday in January.

Sounds good to me.