Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

[Frank Bunn]

Non-EV's are a dying market. Jaguar as a car brand is a dying market. Those middle aged blokes, are now in their 60s and 70s and 80s and are a dying market.

Jaguar recognise this and are attempting to revive their brand by doing something different.

It might fail, but the Jaguar part of Jaguar-Land Rover is already running at a loss, so clearly what the brand was isn't profitable anymore.

I think the EV market will plateau and already has to some extent. When government subsidies are withdrawn we will see the true state of affairs. For many people an EV is not practical. I lived at a variety of different houses and apartments in the UK and not one of them would have been suitable for overnight charging.

As for middle aged blokes, there's new ones every day!

According to this website Jaguar increased its UK sales by 33% in 2024. So it seems strange for them to turn their backs on a growing customer base. I read that they only expect to retain 10 to 15% of their current customers. It remains to be seen who will be the new customers for EV Jags at twice the price of existing models. Perhaps people like the marketing execs who came up with this latest ad? It's a limited market.

Porsche seem to have read the room and changed tack. Under pressure from EU rules they committed to 80% of their vehicle sales being all-electric by 2030. But they have learned that many of their clients want an internal combustion car over an electric vehicle, and even pay a premium for it if that's what it takes. Porsche have even started putting engines in cars that were intended to be EVs.

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insideevs.com

 

[faible]

Biggest growing market seems to be monster Utes.

They’re replacing a lot of the Rangers etc that were already there as far as I can tell. Everyone I know that’s bought one already had a big Ute and pretends it’s a commercial vehicle for their trade.

 

[faible]

I think the EV market will plateau and already has to some extent. When government subsidies are withdrawn we will see the true state of affairs. For many people an EV is not practical. I lived at a variety of different houses and apartments in the UK and not one of them would have been suitable for overnight charging.

As for middle aged blokes, there's new ones every day!

According to this website Jaguar increased its UK sales by 33% in 2024. So it seems strange for them to turn their backs on a growing customer base. I read that they only expect to retain 10 to 15% of their current customers. It remains to be seen who will be the new customers for EV Jags at twice the price of existing models. Perhaps people like the marketing execs who came up with this latest ad? It's a limited market.

Porsche seem to have read the room and changed tack. Under pressure from EU rules they committed to 80% of their vehicle sales being all-electric by 2030. But they have learned that many of their clients want an internal combustion car over an electric vehicle, and even pay a premium for it if that's what it takes. Porsche have even started putting engines in cars that were intended to be EVs.

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insideevs.com

Once upon a time refilling a petrol car wasn’t practical. EV infrastructure will catch up. For most people in urban areas, EVs are far more practical for their daily driving needs.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Once upon a time refilling a petrol car wasn’t practical. EV infrastructure will catch up. For most people in urban areas, EVs are far more practical for their daily driving needs.

The analogy fails pretty quickly. The infrastructure for petrol cars has always required something like one pump per 1,000/3,000 vehicles. The distribution network grew as the number of cars of the road increased. But there was never a limitation based on your accommodation as to what car was accessible to you. For practical purposes, EVs require overnight charging and for many people that can't easily be made available.

 

[faible]

The analogy fails pretty quickly. The infrastructure for petrol cars has always required something like one pump per 1,000/3,000 vehicles. The distribution network grew as the number of cars of the road increased. But there was never a limitation based on your accommodation as to what car was accessible to you. For practical purposes, EVs require overnight charging and for many people that can't easily be made available.

EVs don’t need overnight charging by any means. Fast charging at a service station. Kerbside chargers are common in northern Europe on streets. Workplaces can / will adopt chargers to help attract staff to the office.

Much of which can run on solar infrastructure.

I’m a massive fan of a petrol engine and even I can see the practical reasons for EVs. I’ve had them as rental cars when I’ve been interstate and they’re fantastic. The range and charging isn’t an issue at all.

 

[Frank Bunn]

EVs don’t need overnight charging by any means. Fast charging at a service station.

If you can't charge at home, charging still needs about 30 minutes waiting around in a car park. That's if you can get to a charger immediately. Otherwise you are in for a longer wait. The alternative is a reliable 2 minutes at a petrol/diesel servo and you are on your way again.

 

[peetoo]

Once upon a time refilling a petrol car wasn’t practical. EV infrastructure will catch up. For most people in urban areas, EVs are far more practical for their daily driving needs.

Not if you have to buy one and you have a perfectly good ICE car in the driveway, mostly paid for

 

[JackOutback]

Petrol cars will be gone in a generation. Arguing against EVs is akin to arguing for the practicality of horses over petrol cars.

 

[cartwright]

If you can't charge at home, charging still needs about 30 minutes waiting around in a car park. That's if you can get to a charger immediately. Otherwise you are in for a longer wait. The alternative is a reliable 2 minutes at a petrol/diesel servo and you are on your way again.

China is starting to use battery swap n go

Five-minute recharge: China's Nio rolling out new electric-car battery swap stations in Europe and UK

Is this the future of electric-car charging? Chinese car maker Nio is set to roll out new battery-swap stations.

www.drive.com.au

apparently takes about 3-5 minutes.

 

[barreness]

China is starting to use battery swap n go

Five-minute recharge: China's Nio rolling out new electric-car battery swap stations in Europe and UK

Is this the future of electric-car charging? Chinese car maker Nio is set to roll out new battery-swap stations.

www.drive.com.au

apparently takes about 3-5 minutes.

Electric car batteries weigh anywhere from 400-800kg(30l of petrol is like 20kg). That's some heavy industry and capital expenditure to set up a quick change station.

Location and security of the battery is imperative to handling and safety of the car, unprotected on the bottom isn't exactly ideal. A one fits all system is unlikely with all these manufacturers and vehicle types. I note that the video is some artists impression rather than an actual system in place, tech start up rubbish in other words

 

[barreness]

Petrol cars will be gone in a generation. Arguing against EVs is akin to arguing for the practicality of horses over petrol cars.

Horses, sustainable but don't trust them. Bikes are mature tech though

 

[cartwright]

Electric car batteries weigh anywhere from 400-800kg(30l of petrol is like 20kg). That's some heavy industry and capital expenditure to set up a quick change station.

Location and security of the battery is imperative to handling and safety of the car, unprotected on the bottom isn't exactly ideal. A one fits all system is unlikely with all these manufacturers and vehicle types. I note that the video is some artists impression rather than an actual system in place, tech start up rubbish in other words

A colleague who visited Shanghai earlier this year told me that they saw this in action, it wasn’t a 5 minute task.. more like 20 minutes.. I had similar comments… but tech and business will solve these problems.

 

[sr36]

China is starting to use battery swap n go

Five-minute recharge: China's Nio rolling out new electric-car battery swap stations in Europe and UK

Is this the future of electric-car charging? Chinese car maker Nio is set to roll out new battery-swap stations.

www.drive.com.au

apparently takes about 3-5 minutes.

They've needed this for a while in China - but more for electric motor bikes which are really widespread and have been for years.

 

[faible]

Not if you have to buy one and you have a perfectly good ICE car in the driveway, mostly paid for

No one (serious) is saying you need to sell a perfectly good car right now. This is a non-existent thing you're arguing against.

 

[faible]

If you can't charge at home, charging still needs about 30 minutes waiting around in a car park. That's if you can get to a charger immediately. Otherwise you are in for a longer wait. The alternative is a reliable 2 minutes at a petrol/diesel servo and you are on your way again.

And the tech improves constantly, so it'll end up much the same as visiting a service station. It takes a good week (or more) worth of the average urban drivers' usage to run down an EV battery. It isn't like a smart phone where you need to charge it every night.

Drivers in regional areas who cover a lot more km will have different needs, as will those living in outer suburbs, but those people are also more likely to have the space and ability to have an EV charger installed and accessible at home.

The arguments you're trying to run with are well and truly outdated. There's already EV chargers at work places, gyms, on streets, hell I've seen them at wineries in regional areas.

No one will take your petrol car away, but chances are you'll reach a point where the logical thing for most people is to buy an EV when they're replacing a car.

EVs are coming en masse, urban streets will be quieter with less exhaust fumes, and you'll realise it's all fine.

 

[Frank Bunn]

China is starting to use battery swap n go

Five-minute recharge: China's Nio rolling out new electric-car battery swap stations in Europe and UK

Is this the future of electric-car charging? Chinese car maker Nio is set to roll out new battery-swap stations.

www.drive.com.au

apparently takes about 3-5 minutes.

It's an interesting concept but with some limitations. As you said, it takes more like 20 minutes rather than 5. But then there's the queuing time. It looks like each station only has one bay so if you are behind a couple of cars there's no advantage over a public charger.

Currently you need to buy a NIO to have a battery swap car. Other manufacturers might be looking at it but they would need to redesign their cars around a replaceable battery. It would not be simple to get all the manufacturers to standardise on one battery design so that any car could use any swap facility.

One rationale for buying an EV is that the running costs are lower. I don't think that argument stacks up for the battery replacement cars right now.

In Germany, NIO offers a 75-kWh battery subscription at € 169 per month (AUD $270) and a 100-kWh pack for € 289 (AUD $465) , with only two free swaps per month; additional swaps cost € 10 each, with electricity priced at around € 0.39 per kWh through a partnership with RWE.​

Swappable Batteries - www.svp.de

Battery exchange stations are also becoming increasingly important in Europe, especially for commercial fleets and car sharing services.

www.svp.de

 

[Scotland]

Petrol cars will be gone in a generation. Arguing against EVs is akin to arguing for the practicality of horses over petrol cars.

How long is a generation? 20 years? More?

Right now non EVs (including hybrids) still make up 90%+ of new vehicle sales and that has started to plateau. So we're not yet close to car makers stopping selling ICE cars here. Europe which is more advanced than us or the US (and a small densely populated area) just saw EV sales drop from 20% to 15%. So the manufacturers are not close to the point of stopping production of ICE cars.

5 years ago I knew no one with an EV. Currently I know one person that has one privately and one that has one leased through a business. In that same 5 year period I reckon I know 10 or 20 people that have bought ICE cars.

I reckon we're still a long way off as the cost of EVs is high and the charging infrastructure and range isn't there. When you look at what goes into an EV I don't see how you can make one that competes on price without a huge fall in metals prices. You can get a regular Hyundai Kona from $35k, a hybrid from $40k and an electric from $60k. How many people are going to spend the $60,000 on the electric version? It's a very niche market.

I'm one of those people with an older car that is on the fence about when to potentially get an EV. My car still works fine but eventually will need replacing. I know that if I am spending $60k I want something better than a Hyundai Kona. No offence intended to Kona owners, it's just an example of a reasonably priced car with EV options.

 

[kranky al]

EVs don’t need overnight charging by any means. Fast charging at a service station. Kerbside chargers are common in northern Europe on streets. Workplaces can / will adopt chargers to help attract staff to the office.

Much of which can run on solar infrastructure.

I’m a massive fan of a petrol engine and even I can see the practical reasons for EVs. I’ve had them as rental cars when I’ve been interstate and they’re fantastic. The range and charging isn’t an issue at all.

I’ve seen multiple businesses around town install ev chargers as they have large solar arrays and get funk all back from the oversupply they produce so stuck chargers in and staff love them.

 

[the_interloper]

Electricity is woke

 

[sr36]

Electricity is woke

Unless you're using it to fire up a deep fryer.

 

[the_interloper]

Unless you're using it to fire up a deep fryer.

Yeah fryers are racist sexist and homophobic I think

 

[Pistol Night]

Yeah fryers are racist sexist and homophobic I think

Mine certainly seems to be fat shaming me the flog

 

[the_interloper]

Mine certainly seems to be fat shaming me the flog

Try using some conservative electrons to power it if you can, might help.

 

[JackOutback]

How long is a generation? 20 years? More?

Right now non EVs (including hybrids) still make up 90%+ of new vehicle sales and that has started to plateau. So we're not yet close to car makers stopping selling ICE cars here. Europe which is more advanced than us or the US (and a small densely populated area) just saw EV sales drop from 20% to 15%. So the manufacturers are not close to the point of stopping production of ICE cars.

5 years ago I knew no one with an EV. Currently I know one person that has one privately and one that has one leased through a business. In that same 5 year period I reckon I know 10 or 20 people that have bought ICE cars.

I reckon we're still a long way off as the cost of EVs is high and the charging infrastructure and range isn't there. When you look at what goes into an EV I don't see how you can make one that competes on price without a huge fall in metals prices. You can get a regular Hyundai Kona from $35k, a hybrid from $40k and an electric from $60k. How many people are going to spend the $60,000 on the electric version? It's a very niche market.

I'm one of those people with an older car that is on the fence about when to potentially get an EV. My car still works fine but eventually will need replacing. I know that if I am spending $60k I want something better than a Hyundai Kona. No offence intended to Kona owners, it's just an example of a reasonably priced car with EV options.

The pace of technology should never be underestimated. The iPod was released in 2001; I'm sure in 2006 there were statistics showing its sales weren't all that hot, that CDs were still showing robust sales. Then the iPhone came out in 2007 and he we are 15 years later and CDs are dead. Think of all the things the internet has killed off in 25 years, streaming etc. Obviously cars are a much larger investment, but all it will take is a single development, an influx of second-hand cars from government fleets and the changeover could gather momentum rapidly. I wouldn't be surprised if ICE are the preserve of enthusiasts in 20 years.

 

[Seeds]

Russia in the Soviet era was communist. Putin is far right. Putin’s Russia is exactly what the GOP want for America.

And putin was a member of the communist party before it dissolved.

Putin is a nationalist. Just like the Russian communist party. They both put the nation and its glory ahead of the rights of individuals.