Woosha - success without winning.

[Obeanie1]

So did many of us read about Woosha talking about having success is not necessarily always winning.

Its an interesting point and admission by our coach of what to expect for the remainder of the year. Looking at the selections in Rnd 9 and the number of inexperienced players that will run out this week its obvious that developing our list in 2008 is the priority. Seeing which of the younger players who have been around for a while have got what it takes.

Success without winning. Haven't been here for a while

So for the rest of the year its about getting our younger players to improve and keep improving with the support of our premiership players.

Please lets keep this in mind when we feel like posting negative comments people.

 

[Mastablingbling]

He's right - we just need our youngsters to show form this year, even when the experienced guys are down on form and passion (probably still a bit stunned from the quality they have lost).

 

[Cuzz09]

Success = Victory.

Title is wrong.

 

[anti.]

well its not as if we arent ahcieving anything. our young players are getting better and in the long run it will result in wins.

 

[Mastablingbling]

Success = Victory.

Title is wrong.

So you can't find any positives so far this year???

 

[Looking For 4th]

Great move from Worsfold...

As many have said playing the kids will benefit the club in the longterm...

For supporters it also offers a ray of hope in whats turned out to be a bleak season. Instead of looking forward to winning each weekend (like we normally do) we now look forward to seeing what these kids can do..

Dont get me wrong would prefer to be winning games..

But the situation would be so much more dire if, like other clubs on losing streaks, we continued to pick virtually the same 22 each weekend..

 

[beatlesmith]

well to think that last year that most of us thought mckinley would never make it and should be traded, and laughed off the suggestion of kennedy being any good, so yes, there have been positives this season. Plus the performances of our draftees have been very encouraging

 

[Scotland]

The only measure of success is silverware.

Development years, rebuilding and list development are buzzwords thrown about by those attempting to justify poor performance.

Where did Adam Selwood, Beau Waters, Sam Butler, Brett Jones etc. come from? I don't seem to remember us being in the bottom 2 and giving a go to everyone under 20 for the sake of it from 2002-2004, nor do I seem to remember accumulating numerous top 5 draft picks.

If John Worsfold thinks Jaymie Graham and Mark Nicoski would add more to the West Coast side in Rd 9, 2008 than Beau Wilkes and Tim Houlihan then he has failed in his duty as coach in making those two changes.

We are clearly not going to contend for the premiership this season. Keeping one eye on the future is fine, but two is unacceptable.

 

[The Passenger]

that all sounds well and good but we don't wanna go down the road of Carlton and St Kilda.

Success breeds success and we don't wanna be in the same position 2 years down the track.

We need to get players in the frame of mind were winning is an important part of playing football and that losing won't be tolerated for too long.

It can be very tough to break a losing mindset.

 

[Cuzz09]

So you can't find any positives so far this year???

Oh yeah I wasnt meaning this year, I meant overall.

People judge teams and individuals on their win-loss records.

This year there has been a few positives, not a lot, but some.

I think blooding 7 debutants is a big positive, see what they are made of.

McKinleys emergence is awesome.

Brett Jones' form has been great.

Yeah some little bits of goodness in a poo year.

 

[Eagle Ant]

2006 and 2007 West coast were described as the team with the greatest depth in the AFL.

Unfortunatly that depth was tested this year but without the talent the likes of R.Jones, C.Judd, B.Cousins, D.Chick, J.Wooden and A.Sampi Due to Retirements/delisting or whatever weve had to replace them with or give greater responsability to M.Priddis, S.Butler, C.Fletcher, M.Nicoski, M.Lecras, B.Waters, M.Rosa, S.Hurn, M.Brown,D.Kerr,J.Graham, A.Hunter, Q.Lynch, A.Hansen, A.Embley and S.Armstrong.

Now Due to Injuries/Suspension and poor form as such MOST of these players have yet to make the kind of impact the coaching staff would have liked and counted on to a degree and so they have then had to replace the replacments with Rookies and 2nd year players such as C.Masten, R.Davis, B.Mckinley, B.Ebert, S.Selwood, B.Wilkes, M.Spangher, J.Mac, W.Schofield, C.Jones, T.Houlihan and J.Kennedy.

So do I think we need to blood some of these young guys insted of playing the out of form but experianced players? HELL YES that is the only way that we as a club will improve.
Unfortunatly they couldn't predict what was going to happen but now that it has it just means that we will be stronger Next year.

I Wouln't call this year a write off as we have unearthed some awsome talent and found some dead weight in the proccess, so even though the stats wont show it at the end of the year I think most if not all of the fans will be looking at 2009 with much antsicipation know our side will once again have one of the deepest and most damaging list in the AFL. That My friends is the meaning of success without winning.

 

[Svenny]

when you win a flag it buys you time in the fans eyes...Im still happy about 06....

people dont realise how hard they are to win...They only give one a year

in all the games that have been played only 149 cups have been presented

But sucsess isnt just about winning its about seeing people improve and get better..if they do that winning is a flow on effect from that.

Woosha has time on his side....

that said we are in for 2 to 3 years pain...

i think it will be 2011 before we play finals again...that is a reality check for some but I just think we need to go through that

 

[swingdog]

I don't think we're facing that much pain - this year is like taking a Bandaid off, better to do it quickly and suffer short, sharp pain than tear it off slowly and suffer longer, low level pain.

If Woosha can keep the side focussed on the process (team building, improving skills, cementing positions, gaining experience) while not worrying about the results, then it'll be an impressive trick and we can bounce back quickly.

If we get the draft picks we're after, I'd expect to see us back in the 8 next season. In the meantime, I really don't care that much whether we win on a week by week basis, it's the long term you have to keep an eye on.

 

[Svenny]

If we get the draft picks we're after, I'd expect to see us back in the 8 next season. In the meantime, I really don't care that much whether we win on a week by week basis, it's the long term you have to keep an eye on.

I would actually prefer another evuilding year next year then a decemt assualt in 2010

we are going to lose Wirra and Braun this year it seems......

so its the peefect chance to blood some more youth next year, but when you have a lot of youth together and less senoir players youre going to cop some beltings.....thats ok they get better

 

[Obeanie1]

The only measure of success is silverware.

Development years, rebuilding and list development are buzzwords thrown about by those attempting to justify poor performance.

Where did Adam Selwood, Beau Waters, Sam Butler, Brett Jones etc. come from? I don't seem to remember us being in the bottom 2 and giving a go to everyone under 20 for the sake of it from 2002-2004, nor do I seem to remember accumulating numerous top 5 draft picks.

If John Worsfold thinks Jaymie Graham and Mark Nicoski would add more to the West Coast side in Rd 9, 2008 than Beau Wilkes and Tim Houlihan then he has failed in his duty as coach in making those two changes.

We are clearly not going to contend for the premiership this season. Keeping one eye on the future is fine, but two is unacceptable.

Come on Scotty.........so if a team moves from 15th to 3rd in one season they have failed?

If a team unearths a young CHF who averages 20 pos and 2-3 goals a game its a failure?

If a team like Richmond goes from 15th in contested possesions to ranked #1 and is winning more and more games its a failure?

Only one team can win the cup each year and it takes years to get a squad in the right mould to win a flag.

Yes we have gone backwards this year, its now up to the club and players to start climbing that mountain together. If we consistantly improve and win another flag in 4-5 years we'r going a hell of alot better than those poor souls who wait 20 years or are still waiting.

 

[swingdog]

I would actually prefer another evuilding year next year then a decemt assualt in 2010

I think you're getting into Carlton / St Kilda territory then and really developing a losing culture which then requires a circuit breaker.

Plus I don't think we're that far away - it's not like we've been crap for years. There's still a strong core there.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I fully agree with Woosha's philosophy. There's 16 teams in the comp, so on average we should be in a Grand Final every 8 years & winning the premiership every 16 years. Sometimes success means being able to follow a plan to rebuild a squad.

With that in mind, there is nothing wrong with the club reloading after a successful period, rather than holding on to a top 8 spot in a futile effort to sustain success (case in point, the Roos).

If we can beat the average period between flags, we're doing well.

 

[Scotland]

Come on Scotty.........so if a team moves from 15th to 3rd in one season they have failed?

They haven't succeeded. They have improved.

If a team unearths a young CHF who averages 20 pos and 2-3 goals a game its a failure?

It's a positive sign.

If a team like Richmond goes from 15th in contested possesions to ranked #1 and is winning more and more games its a failure?

It's a sign of improvement.

Only one team can win the cup each year and it takes years to get a squad in the right mould to win a flag.

Yes we have gone backwards this year, its now up to the club and players to start climbing that mountain together. If we consistantly improve and win another flag in 4-5 years we'r going a hell of alot better than those poor souls who wait 20 years or are still waiting.

As I said, the only measure of success is silverware.

No one expects West Coast to be contesting Grand Finals every year, but the duty of the club is to constantly plan for the future and avoid being down as much as possible.

Going in to 2008, most West Coast fans expected to see a squad that consists of 16 or 17 premiership players from 18 months ago be good enough to make the finals, while introducing a couple of new players. 8 rounds into the season and we are 'having a development year'? Give me a break, we are playing terrible football and some people are trying to justify it under the guise of forward planning. We aren't 15th because Ryan Davis, Will Schofield and Tim Houlihan etc. are in the side. Ryan Davis, Will Schofield and Tim Houlihan etc. are in the side because we are 15th.

The notion that we've been up for a while therefore its our time to finish bottom 2 and 'reload' is just wrong. Do we really have the 2nd worst list in the AFL?

 

[Marlin01]

It's important for everyone at the club, especially players, to have a goal to aim for and achieve. If the goal this year was to win a premiership, then failure will be the result. If the goal this year was for 3 new midfielders to understand how Cox operates in the ruck, for 3 new defenders to work out how to cover and support Glassy and to uncover 3 new forwards capable of timing their leads with oneanother, then perhaps this season can be one in which we achieve our goals and on that basis, be considered a success.

 

[Obeanie1]

They haven't succeeded. They have improved.

The notion that we've been up for a while therefore its our time to finish bottom 2 and 'reload' is just wrong. Do we really have the 2nd worst list in the AFL?

No we don't, just like in 2006 Geelong did not have the 12th best list or where ever they finished.

When we look at what is available to play from our list on paper we fall out of the top 8, and due to lack of confidence we fall further.

Now it looks like 2008 is gone....finished....kaput.......rooted.

The best result in 2008 is list development and getting a good crack at this years draft before the Gold Coast and Sydney Mrk II gut the draft from 2009 onwards.

If we pick up 3 top 20 picks again and get 15 + good solid games in 8 of our developing players we have succeeded in getting the most we can our of 2008.

 

[Jafa]

They haven't succeeded. They have improved.



It's a positive sign.



It's a sign of improvement.



As I said, the only measure of success is silverware.

No one expects West Coast to be contesting Grand Finals every year, but the duty of the club is to constantly plan for the future and avoid being down as much as possible.

Going in to 2008, most West Coast fans expected to see a squad that consists of 16 or 17 premiership players from 18 months ago be good enough to make the finals, while introducing a couple of new players. 8 rounds into the season and we are 'having a development year'? Give me a break, we are playing terrible football and some people are trying to justify it under the guise of forward planning. We aren't 15th because Ryan Davis, Will Schofield and Tim Houlihan etc. are in the side. Ryan Davis, Will Schofield and Tim Houlihan etc. are in the side because we are 15th.

The notion that we've been up for a while therefore its our time to finish bottom 2 and 'reload' is just wrong. Do we really have the 2nd worst list in the AFL?

Seems to me - thats what thay are doing.

 

[Scotland]

Seems to me - thats what thay are doing.

Indeed, but they've been doing it all along.

Plenty of players were drafted, developed and blooded while we were at the top too.

2008 is only being called a 'development year' because we aren't performing.