Society/Culture Working from home vs forced back to the office

[kranky al]

To be fair this is a valid point.

I've not bothered going to work shows for 2 years and haven't been into the CBD for after work drinks for probably 3 ?

Dan Murphy's and bottle shops definitely would have seen a big increase though from people just having a drink at home.

Mind you cost of booze might also make this a bigger issue.

Went to the pub for food and drinks with new work colleagues last week.

Funk me. I quite regularly eat pub meals but I don’t drink - I just have a soda water and keep driving. Havnt drank at a pub for about a decade.

But I had a fair few the other night and paying 15 for a “pint” that’s actually a schooner…. Then shifting to my poison of choice gin…… and discovering to my horror that they only put one shot in it?

I must have a Mandela thing going on, I swear when I was partying all weekend you got two hits …. Apparently not, I couldn’t even funking taste it!!!



So anyhoo I’ve convinced them all that the twice monthly meal should be at my local footy club where the foods as good, the drinks are far more reasonable and the decent slab of wedge we put down amongst a dozen or so of us goes to my beloved rovers.

 

[peetoo]

I’d gladly take the WFH but no promotions or transfers…having recently been denied a secondment where (my assesment) I could have contributed better to the organisations output.
I don’t get how this org thinks it’s a threat
Or is it code for ‘you’ll be the first retrenched?’

Computer Company Sets New Standard By Saying Fully Remote Workers Are No Longer Eligible For Promotions

Unsurprisingly, it’s disproportionately affecting employees who are already one step behind.

www.yourtango.com

 

[burge13]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/disruptive-nike-ceo-john-donahoe-blasted-over-working-from-home-claim/news-story/87e7fc044d6ecfd9615789b09f7f396f

Never occurs to this guy cost of living is spiraling out of control so spending $200 on shoes isn't a priority. No it couldn't be that, it's designers WFH lol. As if it makes a difference designing a shoe in person or back and forth in online chat.

 

[peetoo]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/disruptive-nike-ceo-john-donahoe-blasted-over-working-from-home-claim/news-story/87e7fc044d6ecfd9615789b09f7f396f

Never occurs to this guy cost of living is spiraling out of control so spending $200 on shoes isn't a priority. No it couldn't be that, it's designers WFH lol. As if it makes a difference designing a shoe in person or back and forth in online chat.

Let’s redo the Air. Movie in teams form?

 

[kranky al]

I’d gladly take the WFH but no promotions or transfers…having recently been denied a secondment where (my assesment) I could have contributed better to the organisations output.
I don’t get how this org thinks it’s a threat
Or is it code for ‘you’ll be the first retrenched?’

Computer Company Sets New Standard By Saying Fully Remote Workers Are No Longer Eligible For Promotions

Unsurprisingly, it’s disproportionately affecting employees who are already one step behind.

www.yourtango.com

You have to move companies to get a raise already, why would you go to the office for a measly raise when you can wfh and if they don’t give you a raise you go elsewhere?

Empty threat

 

[Cap]

You have to move companies to get a raise already, why would you go to the office for a measly raise when you can wfh and if they don’t give you a raise you go elsewhere?

Empty threat

I have a friend who had the bonus potential removed (small pay bump) and more recently the same company is threatening to link attendance days to bonuses accross the company.

Their boss apparenrly saw the humour in this new contradiction.

 

[Saab NLAW]

Just my observations and points from what I’m hearing around the traps at the start of 2024

-Due to housing prices, rising interest rates and cost of living. Most families need 2 incomes to sustain mortgage repayments or sustain their lifestyle choices whether it be schooling, where they live etc
-WFH in the past few years has allowed parents to work remotely and still balance kid drop offs to school or kinder which has allowed the 2 income families to manage keeping their heads above water
-Now interest rates are starting to peak and a lot of families fixed mortgages have ended in the past year or so. Most mortgages have tripled in minimum repayments meaning the household budgets have significantly tightened.
-The big corporations have rode through the talent shortages allowing WFH and have slowly bided their time which inflation has done its thing and now unemployment have slowly crept up. Technically without migration we would be seeing GDP figures pointing towards recession but the government has done this well to show an almost stagnant economy to paper over the cracks of a media fear mongering frenzy that goes with the word recession.
So the start of 2024 the big corporations have started to turn the screws and demand staff back into the office.
-With said pressures from interest rates and cost of living, couples don’t have the same options they had a few years ago and need to decide whether to move on and work at a new organisation on probation with less job security or begrudgingly go back to the office.
The cost of childcare then comes into effect when you can no longer WFH and this is where circumstances become difficult.

There’s no easy answer when it comes to the childcare part because a lot of people go to work and it almost becomes a cost neatral exercise with paying for childcare once income tax is taken into account.

I could be wrong here but the end result is there will be a lot of educated, talented parents (traditionally women) who will be desperately seeking WFH roles to keep their heads above water.

Nice post but i have a question.

WFH as you say allows a parent to save money on childcare costs, which are absolutely crazy high, glad we're past that.

How can someone who is working from home and taking care of their pre-school age kids possible be able to work full time? It's impossible, and grossly unfair to the little kids. Where is their daily social interaction if they're stuck in front of a tv all day or on tech while their parents are busy with work?

The reality is that parents who WFH and take care of their kids don't really do much work.

 

[bourbons]

Nice post but i have a question.

WFH as you say allows a parent to save money on childcare costs, which are absolutely crazy high, glad we're past that.

How can someone who is working from home and taking care of their pre-school age kids possible be able to work full time? It's impossible, and grossly unfair to the little kids. Where is their daily social interaction if they're stuck in front of a tv all day or on tech while their parents are busy with work?

The reality is that parents who WFH and take care of their kids don't really do much work.

Yeah pre-school age is tough, couldn't imagine working from home while taking care of one that little effectively.

But WFH makes an enormous difference once they hit prep. No idea how working parents used to get everything done before WFH was more accepted, after school care 5 nights a week I guess and too bad if training/sport starts at 4.30 or 5, the kid as to miss out. Just not having that commute each way makes such a difference, and most jobs are fine with you whipping out for 15 mins during work hours to pick them up if you need to, basically just treated as afternoon smoko.

 

[Saab NLAW]

Yeah pre-school age is tough, couldn't imagine working from home while taking care of one that little effectively.

But WFH makes an enormous difference once they hit prep. No idea how working parents used to get everything done before WFH was more accepted, after school care 5 nights a week I guess and too bad if training/sport starts at 4.30 or 5, the kid as to miss out. Just not having that commute each way makes such a difference, and most jobs are fine with you whipping out for 15 mins during work hours to pick them up if you need to, basically just treated as afternoon smoko.

It's really difficult. I'm a business owner and I like the hybrid system but we've been burnt by the WFH demands. We had 1 guy who insisted on WFH but then we very quickly discovered he was in fact studying full time to become a priest while we were paying him to do a job he wasn't doing. We had another one who was taking her pre-school aged kids to the pool several times a week while she was meant to be working. Not sure how you can work and also make sure your toddler doesn't drown in a pool.

WFH is a great change to our working life and I fully support the hybrid model but unfortunately there are many examples of people taking advantage of it, it's those arseholes who ruin it for all the people who genuinely benefit from WFH.

 

[the_interloper]

Nice post but i have a question.

WFH as you say allows a parent to save money on childcare costs, which are absolutely crazy high, glad we're past that.

How can someone who is working from home and taking care of their pre-school age kids possible be able to work full time? It's impossible, and grossly unfair to the little kids. Where is their daily social interaction if they're stuck in front of a tv all day or on tech while their parents are busy with work?

The reality is that parents who WFH and take care of their kids don't really do much work.

I feel like you shouldn't be caring for kids while WFH, you won't do either task effectively. Sometimes a kid might come home sick from school/CC and fair enough then, but it shouldn't be a usual practice.

 

[peetoo]

Nice post but i have a question.

WFH as you say allows a parent to save money on childcare costs, which are absolutely crazy high, glad we're past that.

How can someone who is working from home and taking care of their pre-school age kids possible be able to work full time? It's impossible, and grossly unfair to the little kids. Where is their daily social interaction if they're stuck in front of a tv all day or on tech while their parents are busy with work?

The reality is that parents who WFH and take care of their kids don't really do much work.

There’s plenty of cheaper childcare services but not full time therefore can be used by someone not travelling to an office

There’s a huge vareity of circumstances

 

[peetoo]

It's really difficult. I'm a business owner and I like the hybrid system but we've been burnt by the WFH demands. We had 1 guy who insisted on WFH but then we very quickly discovered he was in fact studying full time to become a priest while we were paying him to do a job he wasn't doing. We had another one who was taking her pre-school aged kids to the pool several times a week while she was meant to be working. Not sure how you can work and also make sure your toddler doesn't drown in a pool.

WFH is a great change to our working life and I fully support the hybrid model but unfortunately there are many examples of people taking advantage of it, it's those arseholes who ruin it for all the people who genuinely benefit from WFH.

You could sit in an office, ‘look busy’ only interact with people via teams too

 

[Saab NLAW]

You could sit in an office, ‘look busy’ only interact with people via teams too

Sure, true, but it becomes very obvious very quickly that someone is not doing any work. But imagine how boring that person would become, what a sad and pathetic life someone like that would have. That level of laziness and disrespect belongs in the Government and NFP sectors, not in the real world.

 

[burge13]

It's really difficult. I'm a business owner and I like the hybrid system but we've been burnt by the WFH demands. We had 1 guy who insisted on WFH but then we very quickly discovered he was in fact studying full time to become a priest while we were paying him to do a job he wasn't doing. We had another one who was taking her pre-school aged kids to the pool several times a week while she was meant to be working. Not sure how you can work and also make sure your toddler doesn't drown in a pool.

WFH is a great change to our working life and I fully support the hybrid model but unfortunately there are many examples of people taking advantage of it, it's those arseholes who ruin it for all the people who genuinely benefit from WFH.

Fair point as a business owner but bad staff are bad staff wherever they're located

That dude still would have studied and she'd likely have taken sick leave or days off.

the thing with WFH, if you're manager and ask someone to do something by CoB Friday, provided they do it by the deadline who cares where they did it or what time? If they're looking after kids and working during nap/night time and gets work done, who cares?

Every job is different of course but ultimately performance management shouldn't matter home or office. If they aren't working at home, they're very likely to be deadshits in an office anyway

 

[burge13]

Sure, true, but it becomes very obvious very quickly that someone is not doing any work. But imagine how boring that person would become, what a sad and pathetic life someone like that would have. That level of laziness and disrespect belongs in the Government and NFP sectors, not in the real world.

Yep, whether home or office. Wouldn't matter

As for the boring life, that isn't for you to decide as a boss how they want to live. For me, work colleagues are just that, I actually don't like talking to most of them, we're only talking out of locality, not friendship. WFH would save me 2 hours per day on a bus. Nothing to do with having a boring life, it would actually give me an additional 10 hours a week to do better things so quite the opposite!

 

[Saab NLAW]

Fair point as a business owner but bad staff are bad staff wherever they're located

That dude still would have studied and she'd likely have taken sick leave or days off.

the thing with WFH, if you're manager and ask someone to do something by CoB Friday, provided they do it by the deadline who cares where they did it or what time? If they're looking after kids and working during nap/night time and gets work done, who cares?

Every job is different of course but ultimately performance management shouldn't matter home or office. If they aren't working at home, they're very likely to be deadshits in an office anyway

If you have an employee who is WFH and takes her kids to the pool on a regular basis and then makes the decision to do work instead of making sure her toddler doesn't drown then you have a very irresponsible person on your hands and I wouldn't want to have anything to do with her. If she is the type of person who makes the decision to receive money and then deliberately decides to not do the work that she is paid to do and hide it from her employer, then that is stealing and I wouldn't want to have anything to do with her.

Let her go and work for a not for profit or the government where those types of leaches belong.

Culture is such a valuable thing for a business, a good business will encourage flexible arrangements and help their staff manage life stuff. A toxic employee whose deliberate actions result in the other staff and to constantly pick of the slack for the leach will destroy the hard worked culture. These types of leaches are very easy to identify

 

[burge13]

If you have an employee who is WFH and takes her kids to the pool on a regular basis and then makes the decision to do work instead of making sure her toddler doesn't drown then you have a very irresponsible person on your hands and I wouldn't want to have anything to do with her. If she is the type of person who makes the decision to receive money and then deliberately decides to not do the work that she is paid to do and hide it from her employer, then that is stealing and I wouldn't want to have anything to do with her.

Let her go and work for a not for profit or the government where those types of leaches belong.

Culture is such a valuable thing for a business, a good business will encourage flexible arrangements and help their staff manage life stuff. A toxic employee whose deliberate actions result in the other staff and to constantly pick of the slack for the leach will destroy the hard worked culture. These types of leaches are very easy to identify

Yeah you've missed my point completely so good luck to anyone working for you

Bad staff will be bad regardless of office or home. Makes no difference

 

[Saab NLAW]

Yep, whether home or office. Wouldn't matter

As for the boring life, that isn't for you to decide as a boss how they want to live. For me, work colleagues are just that, I actually don't like talking to most of them, we're only talking out of locality, not friendship. WFH would save me 2 hours per day on a bus. Nothing to do with having a boring life, it would actually give me an additional 10 hours a week to do better things so quite the opposite!

I really don't understand your point. If a parasite is deliberately refusing to do the work that they have agreed to do and is receiving ongoing payment for then other people in the team would have to do extra work to cover for them. The required work isn't just going to magically disappear.

**** them off to a government job where they belong haha

 

[Saab NLAW]

Yeah you've missed my point completely so good luck to anyone working for you

Bad staff will be bad regardless of office or home. Makes no difference

Yes, I agree, and I've said multiple times that bad staff are very easily identified and dealt with.

Makes no difference, but WFH has been abused a lot since covid.

 

[burge13]

I really don't understand your point. If a parasite is deliberately refusing to do the work that they have agreed to do and is receiving ongoing payment for then other people in the team would have to do extra work to cover for them. The required work isn't just going to magically disappear.

* them off to a government job where they belong haha

I really don't understand how far you've missed my point. Explained multiple times now, re-read, and have a go at comprehending it

 

[burge13]

Yes, I agree, and I've said multiple times that bad staff are very easily identified and dealt with.

Makes no difference, but WFH has been abused a lot since covid.

So the issue isn't WFH at all, it's bad staff. Well done on catching up

 

[bourbons]

I feel like you shouldn't be caring for kids while WFH, you won't do either task effectively. Sometimes a kid might come home sick from school/CC and fair enough then, but it shouldn't be a usual practice.

Yeah the requirement at my work is if your kid is home sick you take carer's leave even if its a WFH day. They cut us a little more slack for school holidays which is fair imo.

 

[bourbons]

You could sit in an office, ‘look busy’ only interact with people via teams too

Yeah think I've said before here, you're going to get your percentage of deadshits in every company. Granted it will be easier to slack off at home but they'll find ways to do it in the office too.

IMO it comes back to their workload and KPIs, if they're ticking everything off and their work is up to standard I don't think it really matters where they're doing it, office or home.

 

[Saab NLAW]

So the issue isn't WFH at all, it's bad staff. Well done on catching up

Bad staff makes WFH an issue.

Not sure how that concept isn't easy to understand

RUOK?

 

[Saab NLAW]

I really don't understand how far you've missed my point. Explained multiple times now, re-read, and have a go at comprehending it

Nope, I completely understand you and what you're trying to achieve, you're very transparent