Society/Culture Working from home vs forced back to the office

[Gethelred]

True. The people that actually make life possible simply cannot work from home. Take away your tradespeople and builders and transporters and everyone else just becomes a useless bonushole.

It's a little illuminating who people choose to highlight as 'the real essentials', especially when we've just been given a fairly elongated example of who is actually necessary to make society run.

It isn't really your tradespeople, builders; it's delivery drivers, front line care workers, service staff, cleaners. One would think Covid taught us that, but perhaps not.

 

[Cap]

It's a little illuminating who people choose to highlight as 'the real essentials', especially when we've just been given a fairly elongated example of who is actually necessary to make society run.

It isn't really your tradespeople, builders; it's delivery drivers, front line care workers, service staff, cleaners. One would think Covid taught us that, but perhaps not.

You've forgotten the guys who pilot the large cargo ships to Port.

Look what happened when they slowed down delivery

 

[Cap]

My final thought on this whole issue

Why is WFH even a problem for people who don't or can't WFH ?

It seems to have become another pointless culture war by those who can't handle a changing world.

 

[Seeds]

Employers save a fortune on office space when workers work at home. Rather then workers getting paid less there is a valid argument to suggest they should get paid more. Office overheads are very expensive.

 

[Cap]

Employers save a fortune on office space when workers work at home. Rather then workers getting paid less there is a valid argument to suggest they should get paid more. Office overheads are very expensive.

Absolutely, most of the more well run prof services businesses are downsizing hugely.

In many cases they couldn't have their staff in the office all at once anyway.

 

[Gavin Excell]

There's some very vested interests in the debate

 

[ShanDog]

Also though, WFH you are basically paying for your own electricity and services throughout the day that normally an employer would pay for.

So it isn't free to WFH. You incur costs that aren't as easy to write off for trades and self employed.

So there are downsides to the whole thing.

It's definitely an individual-experiences-may-differ situation. My in-laws have solar and battery, so they don't pay for electrickery. But if I was to work from home in the apartment I was living in a couple of years ago, I would have gone mad.

 

[Seeds]

There's some very vested interests in the debate

Explain your meaning of vested interest?

 

[Cap]

It's definitely an individual-experiences-may-differ situation. My in-laws have solar and battery, so they don't pay for electrickery. But if I was to work from home in the apartment I was living in a couple of years ago, I would have gone mad.

That's true too. I guess like any 'luxury' it's in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Rotayjay]

If you live in a big house with a nice secluded home office, working from home is a lot more attractive than a smaller place where the kitchen table is the only option.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Explain your meaning of vested interest?

Managed investment trusts and superannuation funds with heavy exposure to office space

 

[dav3]

The argument is what people have the luxury to do as a result of their job.

I see weird and irrelevant, but it'd not my argument.

Well that's certainly what you appear to be pivoting to now

 

[Cap]

Well that's certainly what you appear to be pivoting to now

No, I was merely pointing out there is something weird and irrelevant here and it's not me or my argument.....


Not sure I can be any clearer

 

[TheEscapeClub]

I don't think I'll ever be in a position where I can wfh but I don't begrudge those who are. If you can do it, the property barrons will just have to adapt like everyone else was expected to do during lockdowns.

The world has changed and for the better in this regard I think.

 

[evolved2]

There's no reason to refuse wfh arrangements if productivity isn't suffering. If there's objective evidence that employees are taking the piss, that's a different story.

 

[Blue1980]

Isn’t this a case of let the free market decide?

If companies don’t allow wfh, people will go to companies with more flexible working arrangements to attract better talent.

 

[peetoo]

Working from home and hot desking didn’t start with the pandemic. Organisations which were practising it before were actually more agile to the covid threat.

People like Jeff Kennett forget that, and there where lots of communications to hawthorn members from his home office,

Maybe he’s not a dumb hypocrit, but starting to get forgetful

 

[peetoo]

If people don't need to pay for transport or parking etc, could they take less money to work at home? Let's be generous and say 1/9th of their work day returned to them and drop their salary by that figure?

People aren't paid for commuting but it's part of the package of taking a position somewhere so I suspect it would factor into deciding whether the salary is reasonable.

I'd expect trades to take a pay cut if they showed up to a yard and all their work was brought to them there.

Before lockdowns employers were encouraging wfh to save their costs.

Costs is such a nothing argument. But we know it’s about cbd property owners no longer able to get premium rents.

Suburban property is riding out the challenge better.

 

[peetoo]

It's a little illuminating who people choose to highlight as 'the real essentials', especially when we've just been given a fairly elongated example of who is actually necessary to make society run.

It isn't really your tradespeople, builders; it's delivery drivers, front line care workers, service staff, cleaners. One would think Covid taught us that, but perhaps not.

Those people aren’t cbd based though

 

[Taylor]

Before lockdowns employers were encouraging wfh to save their costs.

Costs is such a nothing argument. But we know it’s about cbd property owners no longer able to get premium rents.

Suburban property is riding out the challenge better.

Commercial leases in Perth at least were pretty poor prior to covid too, but business should transition away from centralised workplaces when their workers are able to access the infrastructure needed elsewhere.

 

[peetoo]

Also the Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday t-w-t. Model can’t save on office space.

Perhaps a better option would be over a fortnight work W T F M T W in office across one weekend and T F M T at home the next weekend or similar

 

[peetoo]

Commercial leases in Perth at least were pretty poor prior to covid too, but business should transition away from centralised workplaces when their workers are able to access the infrastructure needed elsewhere.

And each city can accommodate more workers and people without gridlock efficiency wastage - people are forgetting that too

 

[Gavin Excell]

Working from home and hot desking didn’t start with the pandemic. Organisations which were practising it before were actually more agile to the covid threat.

People like Jeff Kennett forget that, and there where lots of communications to hawthorn members from his home office,

Maybe he’s not a dumb hypocrit, but starting to get forgetful

That's because it was different when it was him working from home

 

[Cap]

I don't think I'll ever be in a position where I can wfh but I don't begrudge those who are. If you can do it, the property barrons will just have to adapt like everyone else was expected to do during lockdowns.

The world has changed and for the better in this regard I think.

This reminds me of some issues our local main street was having many years ago.

Tenants were leaving because of high rents and the landlords had the Audacity to run campaigns in the newspapers about the council spending money to bring back customers.

Even the slightest question about rents being too high was dismissed out of hand, it was almost funny, except I believe the councils buckled and gave them subsidies and incentives.

 

[Rotayjay]

I think CBDs will always exist, but they'll change and the percentage of employees physically attending CBD offices will naturally continue to dwindle over the coming decades. I think we'll see (say) the same office building with 1,000 desks rented by ten employers of 100 desks each rather than five with 200 desks each.

CBD rents will naturally decline with market forces and fewer office buildings will be built, in favour of apartments since I think there will always be a market for singles, couples and students for city living.

Here in Adelaide, 60 King William Street has just finished construction - it was conceived before the pandemic. It's the largest office building in Adelaide by lettable floor area, but its anchor tenants will be Centrelink, Child Support and Medicare, government agencies rather than the private sector. A few hundred metres away, the almost-complete Festival Plaza tower's anchor tenant will be Flinders University.