WRFL Division 1 - 2013

[Checkside35]

the Stephens boys didnt get cleared tonight

Now what?

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

Got to watch him play in the cmfl gf last year. Kerang beat his side woorineen by 10 goals. If he is as fit as he was last year he won't cause a lot of headaches because his speed and fitness were an issue. He didnt enjoy close attention either. However if he has had a big preseason I will stand corrected because no doubt his speed and skill will be unmatched if he is fit.

"Marc Bullen played with him at Essendon obviously, so it was just (about) making sure we could fit him into our salary cap. It took a bit of negotiation, a bit of give from both parties, and we were able to get him across the line," McGoldrick said.

I think somebody needs to Tap the Deer Park president on the shoulder and remind him that his club competes in the WRFL and not the AFL.

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

"Marc Bullen played with him at Essendon obviously, so it was just (about) making sure we could fit him into our salary cap. It took a bit of negotiation, a bit of give from both parties, and we were able to get him across the line," McGoldrick said.

I think somebody needs to Tap the Deer Park president on the shoulder and remind him that his club competes in the WRFL and not the AFL.

haha, well said. i wasnt aware salary caps exist in the WRFL? and if they did I am guessing Deer Park might in a bit of strife

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

serious question.... from the Deer Park senior team yesterday how many are Deer Park junior players?

 

[w.weapons]

serious question.... from the Deer Park senior team yesterday how many are Deer Park junior players?

1....and he played 1 year of 18's......

what about your club.....???

serious question....if your club had the advantage of having buisness people willing to dip into their pockets and create a team which will bring your club sucsess will you knock it back????

 

[Checkside35]

1....and he played 1 year of 18's......

what about your club.....???

serious question....if your club had the advantage of having buisness people willing to dip into their pockets and create a team which will bring your club sucsess will you knock it back????

Is that success sustainable without the juniors seeing a path to the senior team? That's the question most are asking when there's an injection of money for players.

 

[evodafalcon]

Is that success sustainable without the juniors seeing a path to the senior team? That's the question most are asking when there's an injection of money for players.

Prob the big question is not only would you take financial backers because of coarse everyone would but you would make the investment from financial backers last for sustainable success as although a flag or two may be great but not if it means many years of the club struggling following the couple of strong years. The hard thing for deer park I would imagine would be keeping the old deer park players at the club like skinny catteral he has been a solid and great DP person and player and been there since a 16yo senior player through hard times and good he is still a solid player but has not got a look in for seniors this year although doing all the training and playing well... He i believe is gone now from DP which is a shame.

I think although success looks likely there needs to be a balance of spending and investing in future. If they out a fraction of coin towards subsidised fees for kids I would imagine they would get an influx of junior players and once they are at the club then build on that. So if deer park are spending say $160k put $20k back to juniors fees so kids pay $50 per year instead of $150 like most clubs in area then advertise this fact in schools then that is some way to securing a future for kids and putting money to good use. Then get some of these senior players to attend junior games and training only say a couple of times at least then those kids start wanting to stay at the club and get up to senior level.

But then again what would I know I'm from a div 2 club... Just my opinion.

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

1....and he played 1 year of 18's......

what about your club.....???

serious question....if your club had the advantage of having buisness people willing to dip into their pockets and create a team which will bring your club sucsess will you knock it back????

11 SHFC juniors in the weekend team and 2 regulars unavailable.

No we would not knock the money back. But we wouldnt use it the way that DP has. We would spend it on further reducing the costs to our junior members and upgrading our equipment, facilities and medical team so that the money was used on all of our current members.

 

[Nudgeme]

Close to 400k DP are spending on players and I assure you that is from someone deep withing the footy club. 12 players minimum received 3-5k sign on and add into it Andrew Lovett who is costing them upwards of 30k and the 400k is not far away. It's a disgraceful way to go about things. I can understand excellent footballers commanding 400-700 a game because under the current climate, exposure to injury and level of commitment now required at suburban football its fair and reasonable but sign ons and match payments off $1000-$1500 a game is disgusting.

Every club should be capped at 200k and books be opened to league officials and/or a points system introduced. GA is a stain on local football and holds himself like the creepy old slob he is, I like DP as a football club and hope come season 2015 they are still a strong Div 1 team.

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

worth keeping in mind they havent actually won anything yet. there has been many artificial sides thrown together by ridicolous amounts of money over the years and its funny how many of these mobs actually fall over at the pointy end due to the fact their hearts might not be in as much as a group of players who love and breath the club they are playing for.

 

[w.weapons]

11 SHFC juniors in the weekend team and 2 regulars unavailable.

No we would not knock the money back. But we wouldnt use it the way that DP has. We would spend it on further reducing the costs to our junior members and upgrading our equipment, facilities and medical team so that the money was used on all of our current members.

those 11 players would be the only jnr players your club has ever had......

your reply to my question staggers me......ok people say we are paying 250k plus i wouldnt know so for your club to get such an amount seriously there would be 180 k plus left in the bank once you have paid for all jnr memberships bought 100 new ross faulkners and paid the 1sts and seconds 200 a game......heights would be rocking again you would have a new house a cherokee in the driveway and probably lose your backers for the next year.....get real banger im starting to lose some respect for you.....so your telling me you wouldnt go out and recruit the best players available to achieve what any serious footballer sets out to achieve when he crosses that white line.....

have you heard of the dpfc ''LIONS DEN''????...the 90 plus members(and growing) of that group who put $500 hard earned in each year take care of the whole jnr department boys and girls......can any other club in the comp boast a membership backing from past players and supporters of the club like that......i wouldnt think so......

 

[w.weapons]

worth keeping in mind they havent actually won anything yet. there has been many artificial sides thrown together by ridicolous amounts of money over the years and its funny how many of these mobs actually fall over at the pointy end due to the fact their hearts might not be in as much as a group of players who love and breath the club they are playing for.

not a bad post.....hopefully we are there at the pointy end to have a crack at it......though its hard to say but id be tipping there would be people still taking pot shots if the footy club was lucky enough to claim the ultimate prize!!!

who knows.....

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

have you heard of the dpfc ''LIONS DEN''????...the 90 plus members(and growing) of that group who put $500 hard earned in each year take care of the whole jnr department boys and girls......can any other club in the comp boast a membership backing from past players and supporters of the club like that......i wouldnt think so......

So you have 45k put in by past players to cover the cost of your juniors but you still charge $270 per player for juniors to play?
Give me a spell. If you think that 45K is being spent on junior footy you are delusional. On $270 per player you would be making a profit.

 

[WRFLwhisperer]

Might still be one more major signing to come at Deer Park as well.

 

[WRFLwhisperer]

Terrific game of footy at Deer Park on Saturday. Forget the money talk - there are no guarantees the money will buy Deer Park a premiership. They got out to a 10 or 11 goal lead, but the youth and fitness in the Altona side showed out in the second half on Saturday.

The more contenders in the Div 1 competition the better. If that game is anything to go by then it's going to be a great Division 1 season.

 

[homebrew]

So you have 45k put in by past players to cover the cost of your juniors but you still charge $270 per player for juniors to play?
Give me a spell. If you think that 45K is being spent on junior footy you are delusional. On $270 per player you would be making a profit.

Well said GBF50 some of there junior sides haven't received there jumpers yet,fact

 

[WRFLwhisperer]

Every club should be capped at 200k and books be opened to league officials and/or a points system introduced.

A salary cap for local footy is unmanageable. So a points system is the only way it could work.

Until Deer Park win it I won't be complaining, I still think 3 or 4 teams can challenge them this year. Money doesn't always buy success.

The downside of what DP are doing is the inflation they are creating within the competition. Players at other clubs hear the equivalent types are on double their match payment at DP, or prospective recruits think that $1200 a game is the going rate when really they should only be worth $600-$800 a game. So they all stick their hand up for more, other clubs get closer to the DP offers and it could bring down one or two clubs in the next few years who overcommit to player spending. Some clubs will try and keep up when they really can't afford to.

 

[DC25]

A salary cap for local footy is unmanageable. So a points system is the only way it could work.

Until Deer Park win it I won't be complaining, I still think 3 or 4 teams can challenge them this year. Money doesn't always buy success.

The downside of what DP are doing is the inflation they are creating within the competition. Players at other clubs hear the equivalent types are on double their match payment at DP, or prospective recruits think that $1200 a game is the going rate when really they should only be worth $600-$800 a game. So they all stick their hand up for more, other clubs get closer to the DP offers and it could bring down one or two clubs in the next few years who overcommit to player spending. Some clubs will try and keep up when they really can't afford to.

I agree this is exactly what is happening. One can hardly blame DP for it, as they do nothing wrong. Salaries have risen dramatically over the last 5 years for all clubs and it seems clear that finance is the main driver of inequality between clubs.

It seems to me that the League and Presidents will need to make a decision:

Is the competition about the provision of entertainment by creating an ever-stronger competition, where past AFL/VFL/Other stars entertain the crowd? Perhaps. But it will be at the cost of having an uneven competition, clubs getting into financial trouble (boom/bust), and local players getting pushed out for imports. It accepts that in a meeting 2 year ago, only one Div2 team confirmed they had the intention to get promoted to Div1. The rest were simply not willing to make the step, because they knew that it would kill them financially. It also then accepts an ineffective allocation of community sponsorship dollars, which flow to mercenaries without loyalty, doing nothing to strengthen clubs, their premises, or Junior participation and programs. The money simply does not get invested in the clubs.

So should the competition be about maximising community participation of local Juniors? Perhaps. Funds and resources will increasingly go to school programs, participation programs of those cultural groups who normally dont play footy, subsidising Junior fees, merchandise etc. Increased participation would strengthen Football in the West. But then what happens when all promising 20 yo Juniors leave to other comps to play for big dollars? The Senior football product would suffer.

I think the truth is you need both. On the one hand, you cannot allow unlimited spending (hey, even the AFL does not do this!) and we need to better support and build our Juniors. But you need to reward those clubs that work hard on raising those funds too, and you need to allow clubs to recruit some marquee players with skill and sizzle, so that there is excitement going to the game on Saturday.

In my opinion, take 3 years to trial a point system. One that would, in effect, cap expenditure at $200k (or any other level - it's not the point). Despite all the rhetoric, other leagues have been working with a points system for years. And with success.

At least have a go. Have a vision and try something to really address the issue.

Or else, accept that player expenditure will remain the best predictor of ranking, that mercenaries drain the community clubs of most of their funds and push out local players, that the competition will remain uneven, and that clubs will continue to under-invest in driving Junior participation to make a stronger WRFL.

Many may agree with me. Many won't. But I think it is time we start having a serious conversation about viable solutions to the WRFL's issues.

 

[w.weapons]

So you have 45k put in by past players to cover the cost of your juniors but you still charge $270 per player for juniors to play?
Give me a spell. If you think that 45K is being spent on junior footy you are delusional. On $270 per player you would be making a profit.

im paying the $270 yep its a bit steep though the flipside i dont have to find 10 bucks every sat morning for umpires fees.....and my daughter gets a hoodie.....it is what it is every club is different.....the money goes to all areas of the jnrs from jumpers to going to afl games as a team team nights out ect ect.....

great way to do it.....the past going into the future......

 

[w.weapons]

So you have 45k put in by past players to cover the cost of your juniors but you still charge $270 per player for juniors to play?
Give me a spell. If you think that 45K is being spent on junior footy you are delusional. On $270 per player you would be making a profit.

you missed the 1st paragraph......im on the money arnt i........

 

[Kozzis Dizzy]

Don't get to many games these days but still check out what's going on. DP would have to be odds on after their win on the weekend, only going to improve as a team as the weeks go on. Not sure what sort of a committee DP had but you would have to think long and hard about the long term future of the club when you are setting out to buy a premiership. Serious question - how many of these players stick around after the game for a beer? Do they rock up to your functions? When they leave and chase the coin somewhere else (when the money man leaves to win a flag in another comp) then where does that leave the club? If it were the club I supported 'd rather go and watch the AFL than watch my team that didn't have one local playing. It's local footy! sorry DP supporters but I can't see it being a good thing long term. Short term, well enjoy it. Hope you are all there when it turns to you know what.

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

im paying the $270 yep its a bit steep though the flipside i dont have to find 10 bucks every sat morning for umpires fees.....and my daughter gets a hoodie.....it is what it is every club is different.....the money goes to all areas of the jnrs from jumpers to going to afl games as a team team nights out ect ect.....

great way to do it.....the past going into the future......

Gee how generous of the club to let you pay all your umpires fee's up front. There is no way that the 45k you speak of goes into your juniors if you are still asking kids to pay $270.

We dont have 45k from past players to put into our juniors but guess what.... the most any junior player pays at Heights is $100 for the season. No umpires fees and they get a club bag with hat, socks, red and white shorts, T Shirt, Hoody and jacket. Yes all of that for $100.

If DP recruited 1 less senior player (on the standard $2500 sign on and $1000 a game that seems to be the going rate)then every one of your juniors could have played for free all season on that money!!

I am sure that we are boring everyone with all this so I'll make this my last post on the topic and head off to the Div 2 thread where I am sure that you will be in 2 or 3 years.

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

I agree this is exactly what is happening. One can hardly blame DP for it, as they do nothing wrong. Salaries have risen dramatically over the last 5 years for all clubs and it seems clear that finance is the main driver of inequality between clubs.

It seems to me that the League and Presidents will need to make a decision:

Is the competition about the provision of entertainment by creating an ever-stronger competition, where past AFL/VFL/Other stars entertain the crowd? Perhaps. But it will be at the cost of having an uneven competition, clubs getting into financial trouble (boom/bust), and local players getting pushed out for imports. It accepts that in a meeting 2 year ago, only one Div2 team confirmed they had the intention to get promoted to Div1. The rest were simply not willing to make the step, because they knew that it would kill them financially. It also then accepts an ineffective allocation of community sponsorship dollars, which flow to mercenaries without loyalty, doing nothing to strengthen clubs, their premises, or Junior participation and programs. The money simply does not get invested in the clubs.

So should the competition be about maximising community participation of local Juniors? Perhaps. Funds and resources will increasingly go to school programs, participation programs of those cultural groups who normally dont play footy, subsidising Junior fees, merchandise etc. Increased participation would strengthen Football in the West. But then what happens when all promising 20 yo Juniors leave to other comps to play for big dollars? The Senior football product would suffer.

I think the truth is you need both. On the one hand, you cannot allow unlimited spending (hey, even the AFL does not do this!) and we need to better support and build our Juniors. But you need to reward those clubs that work hard on raising those funds too, and you need to allow clubs to recruit some marquee players with skill and sizzle, so that there is excitement going to the game on Saturday.

In my opinion, take 3 years to trial a point system. One that would, in effect, cap expenditure at $200k (or any other level - it's not the point). Despite all the rhetoric, other leagues have been working with a points system for years. And with success.

At least have a go. Have a vision and try something to really address the issue.

Or else, accept that player expenditure will remain the best predictor of ranking, that mercenaries drain the community clubs of most of their funds and push out local players, that the competition will remain uneven, and that clubs will continue to under-invest in driving Junior participation to make a stronger WRFL.

Many may agree with me. Many won't. But I think it is time we start having a serious conversation about viable solutions to the WRFL's issues.

Most sensible post on here for a while

 

[Hidden_wonder]

I just cant see a salary cap working in local footy it would just be to hard manage, and having a salary cap of 200k really only evens up the top teams as i doubt Nth Foots/Yarraville or even Albion are spending anywhere near that this year or would have the funds to do it latter on, as would any second division team coming up.

The points system i can see working and would be more realistic in evening up the comp, my only concern with it is although it could even up the teams in the comp im not sure what effect it would have on the comp as a whole. WRFL is a good comp but not the strongest out there, this year it has grown in exposure with Deer Park spending up and bringing in some quality players, Altona with Post coming in, Sunshine with Hahn coming in, Spotty resigning Cloke for another year, St Albans with Hennerman comming back my concern is im just not sure if a points system would work with the current list of some teams in the comp. I cant see alot of players for instence from Deer Park going to another team in the WRFL if the points system came in next year and they couldnt be fit in to the team. I see players leaving for other comps and players not being able to come accross to WRFL becuse they cant make current team list, just an opinion though.

I see WRFL being better off maybe adopting a 8 team Divvy 1 or a 2 up and 2 down relegation each year maybe this will even the comp out abit?

I just wanna see as many quality players and big name signings in this comp as we possibly can, putting restrictions on this may hurt thats all.

all IMO

 

[DC25]

Some interesting research about a points system. From page 29 onward.

http://www.vcfl.com.au/fileadmin/us...Remuneration_Guide/PR_Guide_Final_low_res.pdf