DeathlyAccurate
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Autopsy You get what you ****ing deserve Swans by 29 Hayward silences his critics.
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22% of McLean time rucking.
Tall Forwards on ground
McLean 54%
Amartey 61%
Logan 88%
Total 203% ie 2.03
I’d like to see more effort from .03
Pugnacious1874
Dreamin'
The interesting part for me is Swans are playing same on field structure as others with 2 KPF (eg Curnow/McKay, Hawkins/Cameron)
So when we talk about effectiveness of the 3 KPF it is really about the ability to rotate the individuals rather than game style. It allows us to carry Amartey's relatively smaller tank, give Grundy a ruck chop out, perhaps creates matchup confusion etc... at the expense of taking bench space that could be resting a midfield/hb runner.
Given the way they're running out games it seems to be working but will opposition coaches find a way to counter/exploit as the season progresses?
And Grundy!
Yes, we are the highest scoring team in the comp, so in one way or another, it’s working
WhippingCupcakes
Team Captain
So strange to have this much depth!
a bit late to the thread, not much more to add really. I will say, Goodes is up there for best all time Swan, not just since Plugger.
Carlton are using TDK as third tall most games with Pittonet as ruck.
Geelong use their two talls a bit differently and have Blicavs as a roamer.
Pies are the most different with only a resting ruck/forward and Mihocek as genuine talls.
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The King!
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RedBloodBlackSwan
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Thanks for running the maths
Interesting then that we essentially had a two tall forward line for most of the game.
And then if you add in that sometimes Logan is swung back at the end of quarters, and that sometimes we have three talls in the forward line, that we means that we sometimes have just one key tall (at least for a small fraction of the game).
Of course while either McLean or Grundy is rucking and the ball is in the forward line..... and so on but yes, the reality is that at the moment mostly we play on the field with two tall forwards, one medium (Hayward), two smalls (Papley and Wicks) with midfielders filling the spaces in rotation, unless we play with Fox as a second (defensive) medium and fewer midfielder minutes.Thanks for running the maths
Interesting then that we essentially had a two tall forward line for most of the game.
And then if you add in that sometimes Logan is swung back at the end of quarters, and that sometimes we have three talls in the forward line, that we means that we sometimes have just one key tall (at least for a small fraction of the game).
Do you really think he thought "Oh, this is Tom McCartin. I could take him out here and finish his career"? Sure, he made a mistake but there have been far worse incidents than this one over the past 8 weeks.
I know I'm against everyone else here but I'm not convinced he deliberately hit him. As with players coming into marking contests and getting there late, they instinctively brace when they realise there is going to be contact. These things are done in a millisecond and if you really believe he intended to hit Tom in the head I believe you are looking at that merely through your red and white glasses.
Even the individual themselves may not know what they thought in the last milliseconds before contact. We all have our opinions and to be honest they are worth SFA.
What IMHO needs to be happening is to train players into different sets of reactions to circumstances to avoid these consequences. Develop new instincts. Don't lift your elbow. Change your line if you are late. Stuff like that. Clubs and the AFL need to take responsibility for what players are trained to do. No use crying "it was a football action" when the guy ends up with CTE. Positive action is needed, not just left up to players who are not expert.
RedBloodBlackSwan
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Longmire agrees with you
Thinking further on this last point, what do players do in full contact training to avoid damaging their teammates? There must be some learning there for starters.
Agree with how good he is, but there’s no way they’ll drop him … he’s exactly what we’ve needed!
Knew he was a good tough footballer but 2 pleasant surprises for me … he’s quicker than I thought (over 5 or 10 metres) and he can kick longer than I thought … easily slotted a nice one from outside 50 in a recent game. He’s building every week too… hope he stays injury free
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Good point, this week may be an opportunity to “manage” one or two?
Not normally Horse's form unless it's a pretty decent niggle or aggravated by the long flight. The obvious ones would have been the oldies Parker and Adams
Jewelsbon
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Not sure Melican couldn't do with resting that ankle, though I'd think without McCartin there, it would only be out of necessity.Not normally Horse's form unless it's a pretty decent niggle or aggravated by the long flight. The obvious ones would have been the oldies Parker and Adams
I've heard a little bit of discussion - but surprisingly little, given the recent spate of high speed "collisions" - about what players' options are, and what they should be expected to do when they have to make split second decisions. Some of that has involved coaches (eg on the coaches' segment on AFL360 on a Monday night). There has been a lot of shrugging (even by coaches) and general consensus that it's tough on players.
I've been surprised at the lack of commentary around training players to think how they enter contests, and to know beforehand what their options are once they have entered a contest, depending on how the ball bounces, or who gets there first.
There remains an underlying expectation that every player contests every contest as hard as they possibly can, complete with media pillorying of players who don't. The reality is that players pull out of contests all the time when they realise they can't get there in time. Uncontested marking contests are the easiest to see, because many times there will be another player charging towards the contest who can't get there, realises they can't get there, and pulls up. If they didn't do this, we'd see lot more 50m penalties for contact after a player has completed a mark.
I get that some people, especially those who fell in love with the sport when it was far more brutal than it currently is, think that football is dead the moment we stop demanding every player contests every single loose ball available to them. But it really won't be. It's only a small proportion of contests where we're asking players to be a touch more circumspect - contests where they approach at high speed and, in particular, contests where they jump off the ground AND launch themselves in a horizontal motion, because they have little control over their horizontal movement once they are off the ground.
At the same time, I'd love to hear the coaches talk more about the work they do with their players to help them protect themselves, especially with a view to cutting back further on players entering ground level contests head first, and/or lowering their bodies to create head high contact.
the hypnotoad
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no, you're not alone in that opinion ... myself and a few others think it was more a bad misjudgment, not malicious ... although brown was lucky it wasn't worse ... mccartin was even luckier it wasn't!
Adam Goodes retired in 2015. You are REEEEEEALLLLY late to the thread
Yeah i don't buy the whole split second notion. Everyone's trying so hard to add complexity to these situations when it really isn't that complicated. I have no doubt that every split second decision is in a players control. Every human has a basic understanding of physics, and therefore with contact know how they're going to affect something that's moving in a certain direction relative to themselves. Even if it's happening in quick time. Relative to athlete reaction time, the amount of time Brown had in adjusting to the ball bouncing into mccartins arms, was an eternity.
The higgins tackle on Aliir was a good example - they tried to argue all sorts of gymnastics like Aliirs direction of movement meant higgins wasn't in control of the outcome blah blah. No, every human knows exactly what would happen if you applied downward force on something running in a perpendicular direction. Therefore it's upto the player making the tackle to adjust their level of force or direction so it doesn't cause an end product like we saw. Anything else is pleading ignorance to the basic laws of the universe.
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View attachment 1982590
This is how normal people demonstrate a duty of care (yep, funny using one of the most uncaring ppl our country has known). Scomo, with his own chance of injury increased by not just managing his own fall, knows he is obliged protect and minimise the potential harm to the caree, in this case the little boy.
Most of us commoners would have found themselves in a similar situation at one time or other. We are all capable of instinctively making split second decisions based on the outcome we want.
I think it highly unlikely that Maynard and Wright would have acted differently to Scomo that day and that shows the prevailing mindset of some, not all, footballers once they cross that white line. AFL need to do more to change that, and that includes educating coaches on being clear in their instructions about the difference between playing hard contested footy and ignoring your duty of care obligations.
I am beginning to enjoy seeing some of the players showing a lot more discretion when faced with high-impact collisions, without doubting their bravery. It certainly is preferable to seeing blokes getting stretchered onto a cart for transfer to hospital, and potentially dealing with CTE down the track.
liz Nice post. I think there has been a recognisable improvement over the last 3-5? years to minimise the risks of so-called footballing accidents.
And the hypnotoad KC makes a good point about Brown's action and whether he would be swinging his elbow around at full-contact training? He wasn't just bracing for contact, he was asserting himself on his opponent and f***** it up... pay the price!
zyzzbruh 100% about the split-second cop out.
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What an excellent series of posts. Now all we need to do is get the AFL to commit to positive action!
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