Draft Watcher Young Talent Time 2013 - A Phantom Draft

[Eastern Rangers]

Can you tell us what "type" you think Shanahan is and how he compares to Nelson ?

Bit strange. If Nelson was six foot, he'd of got drafted no problems.

 

[Chris25]

Personally, I don't think he compares very well to Shane Nelson. The only aspect in which Shanahan has him beat, is in the fact that he is 183cm as opposed to 178cm. Otherwise, I'd be taking Nelson. And yet, he has still gone undrafted.

No doubting Shanahan has had a good year, and whispers are that two clubs in particular are interested. When I've seen him, I haven't noted him to be particularly damaging. He wins a lot of ball, usually on the outside, but he hardly made me take notice. He is clean with the ball, but otherwise I don't feel like he has much else to push himself ahead of the 70 other players who'll get taken in the National Draft. Good WAFL player, handy AFL depth.

 

[Scodog10]

Cameron Conlon, I tend to think, is more of a project than some people may believe. He has played very little football over the last two years, and has only shown his true potential one time. But it's his athleticism and height that you're paying a premium for. I think he compares with the Gold Coast duo of Tom Lynch and Sam Day - tall, athletic, good hands but not a super strong, pack crashing type forward.

As for Alex Spencer, well I think he is a tad underrated. Seems like some people have just written off the KPPs after the second round, but I think Spencer could turn into a good player. I think he'll be more of a solid, no nonsense type defender. He'll get his job done, rebound effectively and take some important marks down back - but generally, will go fairly unnoticed. He'll out position his opponent, as opposed to out wrestling them. A bit like Teddy Richards I suppose, although not quite at his level obviously.

And when it comes to Jonathon Marsh, in my opinion at least, people are overthinking things. They're looking for reasons to drop him down the order - like, saying he'll never be a key forward. But I think it's easier to find reasons to have him high, than flimsy reasons as to why he'll slide. Look at Bontempelli for example, people are all over him for his size. So it's a positive for him, but a negative for Marsh? I'd suggest that Marsh has a better forward game, and comparable midfield games. And if you look at AFL teams, how many teams are playing two or three genuine 195cm+ key forwards? Not many. Fremantle barely have one. While a position many are crying out for is a medium marking forward with speed - teams like Richmond, Collingwood, Gold Coast for example would kill for a player like that. Even if Marsh doesn't become a true 'key forward' (what does that even mean?) his value as a medium forward is high. Not many defenders could match him in the air, and then on the ground once he doubles back towards goal. Plus, I haven't even taken into account his potential as a midfielder yet. Why would you not take a chance on him in the first round? And Gold Coast are in a perfect position to do just that.

Tend to agree re Marsh I'm personally a big fan of him at 10 because we've really lacked that explosive marking option since Tarrant departed and we all know what happened to Rusling.

I can't see too many tall defenders matching him on the lead then the double back and smalls will struggle one on one and in the air against him after a few years in the system learning the role so at his size I see him as a real weapon in the forward half. Not to mention that he'd make a perfect foil for Cloke IMO. Our midfield is also quite one paced so the potential for him to move through there really appeals as well.

TBH between Marsh, Acres, McCarthy and Sheed I don't think we could go wrong drafting from W.A with our first pick as all 4 really appear to compliment what we already have in place.

 

[2ugle]

Personally, I don't think he compares very well to Shane Nelson. The only aspect in which Shanahan has him beat, is in the fact that he is 183cm as opposed to 178cm. Otherwise, I'd be taking Nelson. And yet, he has still gone undrafted.

No doubting Shanahan has had a good year, and whispers are that two clubs in particular are interested. When I've seen him, I haven't noted him to be particularly damaging. He wins a lot of ball, usually on the outside, but he hardly made me take notice. He is clean with the ball, but otherwise I don't feel like he has much else to push himself ahead of the 70 other players who'll get taken in the National Draft. Good WAFL player, handy AFL depth.

183 cms is a year old now. He looks more like 185 - 187cms. I agree with your observations but you do need to see more of him.

A quote I read on the eaglesflyinghigh site, and a quote in which i partially agree with states, "Does not excel at anything, but is better than most at everything".

I actually think he does excel in his touch, awareness and decision making. As I stated on another thread, time and time again he glides effortlessly into congestion and just deals with the footy. He is clean and makes lightening quick decisions, usually good ones. Its only after you see this week in week out and see him up against some of the other better known mids in WA that you start to really rate him and realise that he has something that none of his peers do. No problems transfering his game to a higher level when promoted this year.

I agree with your damaging comment, needs to go forward and hit the scoreboard, seems to play rear of centre a lot, whether its is on instruction or its symptomatic of playing in a week team, I dont know.

Also plays outside more than inside but inside is his strength. Unfortunately EP colts are not strong and he is the best decision maker so I think that is why he plays the duel inside/ outside role.

Saw him last year and earlier on this year play a few halfs on the HBF, and he is very solid which will appeal to a few clubs.

I attended quite a few colts game this year at Leederville oval and have to say that the number of men in baseball caps with ipads sitting in deck chairs grew and grew every week. It will be interesting, as it will be with all the kids, to see how he goes.

 

[clipboardbinocs]

183 cms is a year old now. He looks more like 185 - 187cms. I agree with your observations but you do need to see more of him.

A quote I read on the eaglesflyinghigh site, and a quote in which i partially agree with states, "Does not excel at anything, but is better than most at everything".

I actually think he does excel in his touch, awareness and decision making. As I stated on another thread, time and time again he glides effortlessly into congestion and just deals with the footy. He is clean and makes lightening quick decisions, usually good ones. Its only after you see this week in week out and see him up against some of the other better known mids in WA that you start to really rate him and realise that he has something that none of his peers do. No problems transfering his game to a higher level when promoted this year.

I agree with your damaging comment, needs to go forward and hit the scoreboard, seems to play rear of centre a lot, whether its is on instruction or its symptomatic of playing in a week team, I dont know.

Also plays outside more than inside but inside is his strength. Unfortunately EP colts are not strong and he is the best decision maker so I think that is why he plays the duel inside/ outside role.

Saw him last year and earlier on this year play a few halfs on the HBF, and he is very solid which will appeal to a few clubs.

I attended quite a few colts game this year at Leederville oval and have to say that the number of men in baseball caps with ipads sitting in deck chairs grew and grew every week. It will be interesting, as it will be with all the kids, to see how he goes.

Shanahan had a real chance to stamp himself as a certainty in the Semi against the Falcons at Claremont.

Got caught alot with the ball in hand, that said, has been excellent all year for East's has something that Shane Nelson can only dream of, leadership qualities.

That will put him ahead of the other slightly above average potential draftee's whether it is enough remains to be seen.

Shane Nelson has a few problems, his disposal by foot, his love of motor cross, and he's a terrible interviewer.

 

[2ugle]

Shanahan had a real chance to stamp himself as a certainty in the Semi against the Falcons at Claremont.

Got caught alot with the ball in hand, that said, has been excellent all year for East's has something that Shane Nelson can only dream of, leadership qualities.

That will put him ahead of the other slightly above average potential draftee's whether it is enough remains to be seen.

Shane Nelson has a few problems, his disposal by foot, his love of motor cross, and he's a terrible interviewer.

Did not see that game but his numbers suggest it was not his best.

Taking a look at his stats for the year, his frees against are insignificant when compared to his possessions which would suggest he does not get caught much at all. Certainly not from what Ive seen anyway.

Maybe an off day.

Thoughts on Blaine Johnson ? Consistant footy all year, Good championships and stepped up to play good ressies footy. BOG in the GF.

Has to have a really good chance.

 

[Pykie]

It's intersting you have Scharenberg #1.

He's good, but has he done enough? A little oversold in my opinion, especially compared to kids in his position in past years, and even some other kids at league level this year.

It's funny, McDonald is accused of having a poor year, he was in the VFL bests 6 times and averaged 19 disposals. You can add Aish's history as well to the argument

Compare their performances to Scharenberg's year in the SANFL?

It's kind of strange how all 3 were probably considered top 5, pre-season, 2 have regressed, somewhat in peoples estimations, yet Scharenberg has surged on, on the back of a pretty standard year imo.


Crouch also absolutely smacks of Andrew Swallow in 2005. Absolute dominant junior, ball magnet at every level, contested footy animal. I think people undersell the ability to actually win the football sometimes. There's a long list of players that footskills have improved out of sight at AFL level when in a full training environment, I see no reason why Crouch won't we an exceptional player. If he managed to get through to a top 4 side, then god help us.

 

[Chris25]

It's kind of strange how all 3 were probably considered top 5, pre-season, 2 have regressed, somewhat in peoples estimations, yet Scharenberg has surged on, on the back of a pretty standard year imo.

None of them have regressed in my opinion. All things considered, Aish has had an excellent season. And I'd put McDonald in the same category - both had huge expectations, and both battled through some injuries early in the season. Yet, both were consistently named in the bests for their teams. I don't think either necessarily had as good a year as they could have, but that's neither here nor there when it comes to an 18 year old playing league football.

As for Scharenberg, obviously I've seen plenty of him over the years. And I'm confident having him at the top of the list. His form in the U18 Championships was very good, otherwise he hasn't played a heap of football in the SANFL - you can only judge so much on 4 senior games, as opposed to 15 from McDonald. But, he never looked out of place. The way I think of it, is that if he were Victorian he would have been playing U18 football in the TAC Cup and would have dominated. So I'm not going to mark him down because he wasn't BOG against senior bodies. If anything I think Scharenberg is underrated, because people lump him in with other kids from previous years who perhaps haven't adjusted to the top level - whereas Scharenberg is a class above, and has far more versatility. I like him up forward, and he has actually shown the ability to play midfield (contrary to what some people think).

 

[Nemisis]

Great list Chris - I have had a crush on Billings going back a few years - how did his year finish up?

 

[eaglespremiers]

183 cms is a year old now. He looks more like 185 - 187cms. I agree with your observations but you do need to see more of him.

A quote I read on the eaglesflyinghigh site, and a quote in which i partially agree with states, "Does not excel at anything, but is better than most at everything".

Seem to recall thinking a similar thing about Kane Lucas when he was U18.

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

Nobody has Zac Webster getting drafted anymore. Poor guy, what did he do wrong?

Had a great year in the TSL. The only draft age player I know of to finish top 20 in the Tassie medal. He had one or two quieter games for Tassie, but was brilliant in the warm up against Ranges, and was consistently in our best during the champs. Thinking he should test pretty well in endurance, speed and agility. Hopefully gets himself in a top 10 and gets back on the bigfooty radar. Would be surprised if he isn't gone by around 50.

 

[Chris25]

Probably asking the wrong person, because I've never had Zac Webster going in the National Draft. It's not so much him doing something wrong because he has had a very good season, just I don't see him as having anything 'special' about him. Nothing that really sees him break away from the pack. I think he'd come into calculations late, but a relatively skinny 180cm kid wont be all that high on teams lists for a senior spot.

I think he'll get rookie listed, but I feel like there are better options late draft - Brady Grey for example.

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

I think he'll get rookie listed, but I feel like there are better options late draft - Brady Grey for example.

Yeah I have Brady going late. But I rate Zac more on current ability. They are similar in ways, but Zac has the better disposal and endurance, but Brady may (or may not) develop into the better player of the two down the track, he has a bit more x-factor, and he also has the edge on him in terms of physical development. Hope I am right with regards to Zac, I have liked what I have seen of him.

 

[JasRulz63]

18. Hawthorn - Marcus Bontempelli (191cm, 83kg midfielder - Northern Knights)

Possibly my favourite player in the draft, yes even ahead of the South Australians. At the start of the season I picked Marcus Bontempelli as my bolter, and I was talking him up to anyone who would listen. And I'm pleased to see more people jumping on board of the bandwagon. I've read people saying that if he grows a little more, that he would be KPP height. While that is true, the kid is a midfielder and could be something genuinely special at that height. In previous years, Marcus has played more as a flanker/outside midfielder. He is a rangy type player who moves really well, with both decent speed and a strong endurance base. Really nice leap on him, and he is a very good kick - both long and strong. The reason I'm such a fan is because of the improvements I've seen in his inside game, he is starting to really use his body well and he gets himself into good positions. I'm not saying he will be as good, but he could potentially develop into a Jobe Watson type - versatile, damaging and wins his own ball.

Interestingly I heard Shifter mention on TWR that he's grown a few cm, I think to 193cm was what he said.

 

[Chris25]

It's such an interesting draft for the tall midfielders. Don't think we've seen a draft with quite this many athletic 190cm+ players. The likes of Scharenberg, Acres, Marsh, Bontempelli, Kolodjashnij are all genuine top 10 chances. And you can throw Lennon into that mix too. All of these kids have shown ability in the midfield too. It really is the new breed.

For all the talk of Bontempelli, I really think Marsh needs to be spoken of alongside him. And I would potentially put Acres ahead of the both of them. That kid is a special talent.

The more they grow, the more tempting they are as midfield options. But I also think it becomes harder to play them as midfielders. Once you start hitting the 192cm+ mark, I think teams will find it hard to resist the option of playing them elsewhere. And I'm starting to think Bontempelli could end up in the same boat as Marsh - playing as an athletic CHF, pushing up into the midfield. With guys like Mayne, Stevie J and particularly Gunston having success as that third/fourth tall who can genuinely push up into the midfield, I think more teams will be looking to copy that structure - someone who can get 15-20 touches plus a goal a game is pretty handy.

It's definitely time to stop pigeonholing players as 'undersized KPPs' or 'tall midfielders'. They are one and the same now.

 

[Portmanteau]

Any news on how James Battersby, Mitch Harvey and Darcy Hourigan have tested?

 

[Chris25]

Any news on how James Battersby, Mitch Harvey and Darcy Hourigan have tested?

Not yet. Mitch Harvey tested OK in the sprints/agility, about middle of the road for the big men. Should hopefully get my hands on the results for South Australians after the Combine ends. I do know there has been quite a bit of interest in George Hewett though - only there for 2 days, so teams made sure they didn't miss out.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Not yet. Mitch Harvey tested OK in the sprints/agility, about middle of the road for the big men. Should hopefully get my hands on the results for South Australians after the Combine ends. I do know there has been quite a bit of interest in George Hewett though - only there for 2 days, so teams made sure they didn't miss out.

I've heard Harvey's beep test was close to single digits.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Any news on Acres times? I see WC possibly picking him up with their first

 

[swansfan51]

Chris, are any of the NSW academy players draftable? Green, Hiscox, Gibbons and King - and are there others out of NSW that are worth a look?

 

[Chris25]

Chris, are any of the NSW academy players draftable? Green, Hiscox, Gibbons and King - and are there others out of NSW that are worth a look?

I've been a big fan of Max King all year. I really like what he offers as a forward, he has sticky hands and a natural feel for the position. Realistically, he has shown just as much as Cameron Conlon - he just doesn't have the plaudits. I do feel like people are underestimating him because he is from NSW, despite having performed really quite well in the TAC Cup. I'd have no problems taking him anywhere from the second round onwards, it's just that teams seem to be trending away from those more project talls/ruckmen early on. Bit surprised that GWS don't look to be taking him as that NSW zone selection, even if it was with their eye on trading him on. I'm sure he'll find a home though.

Harrison Green is the other one I've quite liked, although there doesn't seem to be much interest in him at the moment. I have him as a rookie pick, and I like him as an attacking half back. Plays a little like the Shaw brothers, in that he loves to run and carry. But also has good foot skills.

I've mentioned Michael Gibbons a bit in this thread, and I've suggested he'd be a good late round selection for a Melbourne or St Kilda. He has just dominated this season, consistently getting 25+ touches. Yes, he is short but really 175cm isn't that bad. And considering his style of play, it's not something that will hold him back. Don't think his skills are as bad as some people suggest either, he is solid in his ball use. Perhaps doesn't have a high ceiling, but could easily perform straight away.

Otherwise, the others I'd consider in the rookie draft are Jack Codd-Miller, Jack Steele and Kieran Ellis.

 

[SumTingWong]

Hi Chris,
I have a question regarding FA compensation. If we picked up Chapman from Geelong as a delisted FA, would this affect any compensation we might get through losing White/Mcguane?

 

[Chris25]

Not sure. Delisted players count as unrestricted free agents, so I would assume picking up a Chapman would affect any compensation. Really, judging from the compensation picks handed out last year you'd be lucky to get anything for White or McGuane anyway.

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

I've heard Harvey's beep test was close to single digits.

Whaaa? How is that even possible?? My best is 12.8 and I am not an aspiring sports person. Anyone know where my beep would put amongst the draft guys? I'd have thought bottom 10% at best, maybe bottom 5%.

 

[manny100]

Not sure. Delisted players count as unrestricted free agents, so I would assume picking up a Chapman would affect any compensation. Really, judging from the compensation picks handed out last year you'd be lucky to get anything for White or McGuane anyway.

Would need to give a lousy draft pick up for Chapman to prevent any offsets in compensation for a lost FA. For example if the Hawks wanted Chapman best to trade a lousy pick rather than risk an offset to the Franklin compensation.