Draft Watcher Young Talent Time 2015

[blueiris]

Who do you think will be the better player Keays or Hipwood and if Brisbane could only get one which do you think the Lions would be better off without

 

[borderbarry]

Chris, Crawfie at 11.08am last Tuesday, put up a counter arguement to the Saints taking Mathieson with their first pick. So far you have ignored him. I would also like to see your thoughts.

 

[Chris25]

In the majority of Phantom and Mock drafts I have seen St Kilda have Rhys Mathieson going to at pick 8.

But given the inside mids Saints have in Dunstan, Ross, Weller (More a tagger but does go inside), Curren, Steven and Armitage would they really take Mathieson even if he is best available? Even taking into account Curren as a fringe player that has been injured, the others all get a regular game as it is.

Elshaug said on Twomey's podcast that they want bigger bodied mids because they don't have someone running through the midfield the size of a Stringer or Fyfe and Richo has also said that they want pace on the outside and some backline structure.

With that in mind wouldn't they be more inclined to look at Curnow if he falls that far, Ryan Clarke, Milera, Partington, Tucker and/or Bonner? Is Mathieson that much better than the players mentioned above that they would look at him still?

My thinking if things remain as they are (which of course they're unlikely to) is Tucker (Curnow if he is available) at pick 8, then Clarke (Bonner if he's available) in their 2nd rd and a replacement for Fisher/Dempster with their 3rd.

Have I missed the mark here?

Well, I have the Saints going with Ah Chee. So obviously I think pace and skill is their biggest need, as opposed to an inside big bodied player. I also have Mathieson at 14 in my draft and at 21 on my big board, so obviously I don't think he'd be a good value pick at the Saints first.

No reason to get too fancy really. Just best available first up. I wouldn't be prioritising a big body or anything. If they want that, then look towards Greg Clark or Clayton Oliver in the second round. I don't like drafting needs in the first round.

Tucker would be a good first round pick though. Helps the midfield and half back line. Any of Curnow, Francis, Tucker, Balic or the Academy mids would fit well. Otherwise for the Saints, I like White and Hibberd as big midfielders/half backs. Also Holmes and Cornell in the second or third round. Strong, versatile and can have an immediate impact.

 

[Wizard17]

Chris if the dogs where to go after a mature KPD then who do you think is the better one going around?

 

[Chris25]

Chris if the dogs where to go after a mature KPD then who do you think is the better one going around?

There are four options for me - Michael Hartley, Mitch Brown, Nick Coughlan and Matt Uebergang. So it depends what you're after really. Hartley is the best defender of the lot, while Brown probably offers the most immediate option. Coughlan and Uebergang are younger, but offer a good mix of attack and defend. Those two may be more rookie options, but I like them.

 

[Chris25]

I tinkered with my top 50 again yesterday, it had been about a month. I don't think a lot changed, Gresham and Holmes probably the biggest movers.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Thoughts on Scache v Weideman.

Weid plays with intensity and attacks the ball like a natural forward - Schache is just taller and heavier, unlike someone like Patton he doesn't intimidate.

Schache looks good on paper, nice lead, great kick, mobile - but he's not a great mark with contact.

 

[Chris25]

Thoughts on Scache v Weideman.

Weid plays with intensity and attacks the ball like a natural forward - Schache is just taller and heavier, unlike someone like Patton he doesn't intimidate.

Schache looks good on paper, nice lead, great kick, mobile - but he's not a great mark with contact.

I've been saying for some time that it's closer than people think, and that Schache isn't this sure thing elite full forward that he's being made out to be. He's a very good prospect, and deserving of a top 10 pick - it's why I have him at #6 on my board. But I agree with you that he has limitations. A close checking defender who gets body contact will be able to negate his impact. He was largely untested at the Championships (except for one game against glass-McCasker) but up against the best two key defenders on the weekend, Schache had his worst game for the season.

He clearly has the performances on the board over Weideman though and you can't argue his productivity this year, although I think Weideman is the more natural footballer. He's smarter - both with and without the ball. I wrote this two months ago when I picked Weideman in the BigFooty trial draft...

I was going to pose a question in my phantom draft thread a couple of weeks ago, but it's worked out nicely to do it here instead. Josh Schache was the first pick, Sam Weideman the last pick of the first round. But who is the better player?

I don't think you'll find too many people who would side with Weideman. And I concede that Schache has him covered at the moment. But I think it's much closer than BigFooty think. The general consensus on here, is that the media is overrating him. He was rated highly coming into last season and has a famous name, but has done nothing to justify the hype. I disagree. And I think he could end up the better player.

Schache is a fine player and there's nothing to say he wont develop into a top level key forward. Don't get me wrong there. He obviously has the runs on the board, and has had a remarkable season. His strength in the body and hands is superior to Weideman, as is his endurance. And to date, he is the more consistent performer. But I would argue they're the only areas in which he is clearly ahead.

Weideman is an underrated athlete for mine. His endurance needs to improve, but there's every chance that he has done that during his injury layoff. We'll have to wait and see. Otherwise though, he moves nicely for a big man and times his jumps well. His speed may not be anything to write home about, but he times his leads well and I think gets better separation than Schache. And that leads me to his biggest strength. He is a smart footballer. Maybe because he doesn't have the strength of Schache yet, it means he has had to learn to get his ball in other ways. And he's done that by being able to read the play better than most key forwards, and getting into good positions. Then he uses his body to work off his opponent and take advantage.

As I said before, Schache has the four quarter performances on his side. He's more consistent across a whole match. But, when he's on, Weideman has arguably shown more impressive signs. His first quarter against the Northern Blues for the AIS Academy was excellent. He kicked 2 goals that match, while Schache kicked 3. But Weideman was the better forward. It was how he got those goals. He presented strongly, marked well and outpositioned his opponent on numerous forward entries. When the game was up for grabs early, he's the one who stood up.

Otherwise, I keep seeing Schache listed as one of the best kicks in the draft. On goal, that's pretty accurate. But Weideman is just as good a field kick in my opinion and has a nice routine on goal too. And something that often gets forgotten in amateur analysis is on and off field character. And Weideman looks every part the leader on the field. Key forwards are never safe prospects, but it wont be for lack of trying if Weideman doesn't make it.

At the end of the day, I don't think much will separate the two. If it wasn't for injuries, who knows how the top end of the draft would look. The point is, there are options for key forwards outside of Schache. You just need to be looking at the end picture.

 

[Diehardbomber]

Heading into Adelaide Oval to watch Presbury, Milera, Snelling & Haysman.

 

[scottjr]

Heading into Adelaide Oval to watch Presbury, Milera, Snelling & Haysman.

Mostly Milera he's looked a little classier than the others.

 

[Diehardbomber]

Mostly Milera he's looked a little classier than the others.

All 4 were very good today, my write up will be posted tomorrow.

 

[redandblack]

Snelling West Adelaide's best player, Haysman very good also.

 

[SumTingWong]

You don't rate Clayton Oliver?

 

[Diehardbomber]

Heading into Adelaide Oval to watch Presbury, Milera, Snelling & Haysman.

Two great games with all 4 boys having some influence on the game -
Presbury - 16 possessions, 2 clearances, 2 x I50 and a goal. The goal Presbury kicked was in the last qtr. and was at a critical time in the game. He showed composure and poise beyond his years. His score involvement would have been 2-3 goals and his forward pressure and general pestering was good. Excellent game and should move up a lot of draft boards from this performance.
Milera - 17 possessions, 5 marks and 3 goals, Milera was a class above most on the field which is scary considering his age. He showed composure and a mature head when the heat was on. Used his body to out mark defenders well and his evasion skills through traffic were elite. His 3rd goal was amazing, evaded 2 port players with several side steps to goal under pressure. This kids last month has been outstanding and I have no doubt that he has moved well up on a lot of club draft boards. I wouldn't be surprised if he cracks the top 10, you just cant replicate that senior finals football pressure and he shone in it.
Haysman- 19 possessions, 5 x I50 and a great goal. Haysmans first half was quiet but that wasn't due to him not working hard or being in the right spot to receive the ball, purely he wasn't used. His second half was very good, gave great run and carry from the wing and kept West in the game. Metres gained would be 250+ and he just worked so hard. Played as a high half forward in the last and lost his opponent on numerous occasions from purely working harder than his Port opponent. Used the ball nicely and set up numerous goals, one small criticism is his kicking at speed, just needs to slow down slightly prior to delivery. Did his draft chances no harm from that performance and again due to the high standard and pressure of the game will get a lot of points from AFL clubs.
Snelling - Like Haysman Snellings first half was quiet, only had 1 tackle to half time and minimal possessions which is unlike him. Ended up with 19 possessions, 7 tackles and 7 clearances also a great left foot goal in the 1st qtr. He turned the game for West in the second half along with Porplyzia, went head to head with Pentrenko and made him look ordinary. His hands out of stoppages were elite and again his tackling on players a lot bigger and stronger was effective. Work rate and willingness to get to every stoppage/contest was amazing to watch, just gut runs. Pleasing to see is his kicking improvement, massive turnaround from earlier in the year. Continually hit targets low and hard with pin point precision, Snelling leadership was also noticeable, I saw him regularly tell off senior players for not being in correct set up positions. Snelling reminds me of Mitchell from Sydney both are relentless workers, tackling machines and ball magnets. To feature as one of the best players on the ground in a high standard pressure final gets massive point and he will move well into top 30 contention after that performance.

Francis - Not selected possibly still sick
Dew - Not selected
Agostino - Not selected
Brind - Injured - Stitches above right eye
Bonner - Injured - muscle strain right foot

 

[redandblack]

That's a great write up, DHB, thanks.

 

[Chris25]

Who do you think will be the better player Keays or Hipwood and if Brisbane could only get one which do you think the Lions would be better off without

Sorry, this one snuck through without me noticing.

I'd say Keays is the better player now, and the more likely to have the better career. But obviously Hipwood wins based on potential, just with his size and athleticism. I do question whether Hipwood has the game to truly be a genuine KPP, or if he's more a third tall - in which case, his disposal isn't ideal for that role. With his rate of progression though, there's reason enough to be confident of ironing those problems out. I'm still sticking with a Lachie Hansen comparison, which isn't a bad thing.

If I could only take one at Brisbane, I'd go for Keays - especially if Aish and Redden do end up leaving. He might not be a top 5 player at the club, but he looks a sure thing best 22 player. To me at least, Brisbane seem reasonably well stocked in the back half with the likes of Andrews, Gardiner, Clarke and Cutler. If anything, a true #1 defender would be a bigger need than a #2 or #3. And potentially throw in Schache, and there are a lot of talls competing for game time already.

 

[Chris25]

You don't rate Clayton Oliver?

Not so much that I don't rate him, I've just been a bit unlucky in not having seen his best games. I wish I got to see his match against Bendigo the other week. Whenever I've seen him play, he hasn't really had much of a scoreboard impact. His second half of the year was obviously excellent, and I know some recruiters value that sort of development higher than being consistently good all year. So he should probably be higher on my list, he is exactly what I like in a midfielder after all - that real strong, big bodied inside player.

He's the flavour of the month at the moment, but probably well deserved.

 

[Diehardbomber]

Presbury, Milera, Snelling, Haysman, Agostino & Brind all playing in today's SANFL League Prelim. Great day for footy and for watching emerging SA talent. Report on their performance next week.

 

[CRIPPA9]

Hey Chris, presuming Carlton get 1 of Geelongs or Richmonds first picks or even both, who do you reckon is on our range? Would Charlie Curnow possibly be around?

 

[Diehardbomber]

Presbury, Milera, Snelling, Haysman, Agostino & Brind all playing in today's SANFL League Prelim. Great day for footy and for watching emerging SA talent. Report on their performance next week.

Apologies for the delay in getting this post up, been a busy week. Not too much to write about after last Sunday's prelim final IMO, out of the 6 x SA U18 players that took to the ground only two really stood out. Thought I'd give an out of 10 rating for each with a few comments about their performance.
Presbury - 3/10 - looked tired and sore, wouldn't be surprised if he was carrying an injury. Didn't have his usual zippiness and had no influence on the game.
Milera - 4.5/10 - Played as a high half forward and was isolated at FF for a fair part of the game, got a lot of attention off the ball and didn't like/cope with it at all. Hit Agostino late off the ball in the 2nd qtr. and was reported. Again like Presbury looked tired and IMO didn't cope with the pressure/expectation. Showed some flashy diagonal movement during the second half but had little impact.
Snelling - 5.5/10 - slow start to the game but got into it after half time, kicked a nice goal and his clearance work was present as usual. Handball under pressure to advantage was elite. Made a poor foot error in the last when trying to switch the play, missed the target which resulted in Centrals kicking a goal. This is his only criticism, delivery by foot can let him down, Im going to let it slide as fatigue due to his high workrate would have played a factor.
Haysman - 6/10 - Solid game without being a stand out, work rate present, impact at contests was good and noticeably his tackling was up on last game. Made a few minor handball errors, more bad option than execution. Pressure and chase down on the opposition was elite and noticeable.
Agostino - 7.5/10 - Great to see him back, played a rippa first half until he got injured. First qtr was of high standard, gave run and drive from the BP and shut down was evident. Stood Milera and blanketed him not allowing any room/space, Milera did not cope hence tried to take Agostino out with a late bump. Did his draft chances no harm with this performance.
Brind - 8/10 - Great to see him get a chance at senior level, made a real impact at every contest. kicked 2 good goals, the second being a pure strength fend off and kick under pressure. His condition isn't good but that made no difference as his effort and workrate was high. Caused genuine pain when at HF and created numerous goals due to impact at contests. Marking and foot skills were evident and his clean hands gave him extra time. I suspect a club will take a chance on him as he has Dane Swan like traits.

 

[Bateman]

I was quite keen on Hodgson last year. Think in a weaker draft group, his versatility and immediate impact would be appealing. Even as a rookie, he'd get playing time at some of the bottom clubs.

With Mattingly, I don't see him getting a gig this year - as good as his season has been. His best bet looks to be going to one of the state leagues and performing well there. Sort of like Chris Jansen this year who moved from Canberra to the SANFL and was rewarded with a state screening invite. Mattingly has the physical attributes to warrant attention if the performances match. Mitch Mahady was a smokey of mine last year, I liked him and would maybe have considered a rookie spot for him. Again, not sure he has much of a chance this year. But another who could look at joining one of the other state leagues. He's a good athlete at his size, and can swing forward from what I've seen. So neither are probably overly draft relevant, but could be handy recruits for other teams.

Hi Chris not really related to this post but I hope you can shed some light for me and other supporters.
Mason Shaw has been delisted by Port. Have you seen him play and San you give us a rundown on him from his time in SA?
Also what his current height and weight?
There is talk that he may be worth us picking up as a rookie but I would like your honest assessment of him?
Thanks

 

[Father Harvs]

hi Chris, been awhile since i was last on. Pretty wrapped with our year and I think a things unfolded we showed we had the best but not quite there game to get over the hawks in finals - where it counts. But as we all know it is hard to get the key position to a level required and recruiting can only be achievable if have the salary cap and picks and players to trade. This leads me to ask you about a guy who i have not seen play but think his record and ability is someone who we could develop quickly and be a very good key forward - your thoughts on
Luke STRNADICA (East Fremantle)
DOB: 1st January 1998
Debut: N/A
From: Winnacott
Height: 199
Weight: 88
Number: 29

I tinkered with my top 50 again yesterday, it had been about a month. I don't think a lot changed, Gresham and Holmes probably the biggest movers.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Really like your short sharp mock write ups. I have read them a few times and it's good that I can get through them quickly. Are you waiting for the combine for a few whispers and stats ect to come out before a remodel?

 

[princy_99]

Hi Chris who do you think Gold Coast will take with pick 3, possibly 10, 19 and 22 I think at the moment?

 

[Chris25]

Really like your short sharp mock write ups. I have read them a few times and it's good that I can get through them quickly. Are you waiting for the combine for a few whispers and stats ect to come out before a remodel?

More just waiting until I have some time to do a proper update, now that the season is over and draft picks are set it makes it a bit easier. Hopefully in the next week, I can get something done. Not too much should change though, my opinions are fairly well set.