Traded Zach Tuohy [traded to Geelong with 2017 2nd rd pk for Smedts, 2017 1st rd pk and pick 63]

[Foucault1989]

Williamson is a significant downgrade on Tuohy in that position this season.

Tuohy would have to be close to AA selection as a creative ball winning half back at the half way mark of the season.

What a short-sighted way of viewing this trade and situation. It's like the world is black and white for you. Context needs to be taken into consideration. We are thinking about 2020 onwards...Williamson is looking like he will be a key pillar in that, as is Marchbank. We have a plethora of creative half backs- Docherty, Simpson, Byrne when he returns, Sheehan and Williamson. As good as Zach is he is worth more to Geelong than us in the present and future

 

[Jeremias]

Didn't say that.
Read my post again.

I did, and it's not pretty reading for you.

Just more rubbish from someone who has - time and time again - shown that a dislike for Carlton gets in the way of rational thought on the topic.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We needed him desperately we still lack running defenders even with him in, in career best form.

For probably a 6 pick downgrade plus 63 and smedts (just a salary dump for us will be delisted in a couple of years) very happy.

Carlton did ok to get marchbank from it so win win.

GWS probably nervous about their part of it (marchbank pickett and a 3rd rounder for deledio) unless deledio can get on the park and play well.

 

[Prochard123]

The deal seemed extremely skewed towards Carlton initially.

Now it's probably 60-40 to Carlton's way since Tuohy has been quite good.

The thing is just there're alot of players of Tuohy's standard and quite a few replacements are available in FA that aren't much worse than Tuohy. The acquisition was good all around but was slightly expensive.

 

[HARKER]

Neither Carlton nor Geelong would want their time again.
The trade met both teams objectives so 50/50, Win/Win.........just the way it should be.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

The deal seemed extremely skewed towards Carlton initially.

Now it's probably 60-40 to Carlton's way since Tuohy has been quite good.

The thing is just there're alot of players of Tuohy's standard and quite a few replacements are available in FA that aren't much worse than Tuohy. The acquisition was good all around but was slightly expensive.

6 pick downgrade and Billie Smedts is expensive? You're underrating Tuohy as well.

 

[Tushay]

Yeah you said Williamson is playing his position. He's a kid, but a downgrade in that position this year no doubt.

For a 4-5 pick downgrade the cats have got a AA quality half back flanker based on 2017 form.

A bargain considering they were demanding two first rounders for Gibbs - and probably indicative of their unreasonable demand for Bryce.

Yes, we're not as generous as the Richmond recruiters. Everyone likes to trade with Richmond.

 

[Rich01]

Yes, we're not as generous as the Richmond recruiters. Everyone likes to trade with Richmond.

Sure, but this thread is about Tuohy.
4-5 pick downgrade not a bad return for a bloke pushing AA at the halfway point of the season.

 

[Tushay]

Sure, but this thread is about Tuohy.
4-5 pick downgrade not a bad return for a bloke pushing AA at the halfway point of the season.

You clearly have no idea what we turned that future Geelong pick into, do you?

If you did you'd say win-win.

 

[Rich01]

You clearly have no idea what we turned that future Geelong pick into, do you?

If you did you'd say win-win.

Tell me what the net result for the blues was again?
Blues supporters just can't resist making my comment about Tuohys form relevant to their part of the trade.

 

[Smalls0304]

Tell me what the net result for the blues was again?
Blues supporters just can't resist making my comment about Tuohys form relevant to their part of the trade.

Marchbank

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

At the time most blues fans thought the trade was poor in isolation. It's amazing how Touhy has now all of a sudden become a gun at a top side, we all knew he was this good.

If you look at the trade period and our situation overall we traded in one of the best young KPD's in the comp in Marchbank with that pick, and also drafted Williamson who has already cemented his spot at 18.

Long term I think we win the trade but if the Cats win a flag with Touhy continuing playing the role he has then its win win.

 

[Smalls0304]

Cats won the trade in isolation easily. It's not even an argument. But for the overall picture for the club, which needed a first round selection for Marchbank, i don't think we will be losing any sleep over it. Genuine Win-Win

 

[Turbocat]

Looking at one particular deal can sometime be deceiving. 2E is part of a list strategy for both clubs... for Carlton ( i will let their supporters bring the facts) but letting him go and ending up with Marchbank as well as SC consequences is part of a total trade process.They look to be building more for the future perhaps 3+ years. The Marchbank trade shows its difficult to look at one specific trade.. id estimate that Car would know what GWS position would be ..we will do X if you can get a X for the deal .. so its the total trade period not just one deal

Geelong too have their goals , the loss of a late pick and a talented fringe player who would struggle , coupled with a drop from late R1 to early R2 must be looked at as part of our process... losing Enright meant we needed to have a pnp replacement now , to keep enough talent on the park to max the previous recuitment of Danger, Henderson,SS, Smith...

 

[Turbocat]

At the time most blues fans thought the trade was poor in isolation. It's amazing how Touhy has now all of a sudden become a gun at a top side, we all knew he was this good.

If you look at the trade period and our situation overall we traded in one of the best young KPD's in the comp in Marchbank with that pick, and also drafted Williamson who has already cemented his spot at 18.

Long term I think we win the trade but if the Cats win a flag with Touhy continuing playing the role he has then its win win.

All one can hope for from a trade is that its debatable who is the winner. To a lesser degree.. its a Judd trade for us ..and as WC still has Kennedy , you most likely will have Marchbank years down the track.

 

[Monkey King]

The Marchbank trade shows its difficult to look at one specific trade.. id estimate that Car would know what GWS position would be ..we will do X if you can get a X for the deal .. so its the total trade period not just one deal

Exactly! Looking at the Tuohy trade in isolation will only yield a partial picture. Carlton knew what the net result was going to be for shipping out Tuohy and that would have been a key to their negotiations with Geelong. From Geelong's perspective it's Tuohy for a slight downgrade, from Carlton's perspective it's Marchbank, Pickett and a second rounder in this years draft. Appears to be a solid win for both clubs to this point.

Good to see Tuohy doing well btw. I'm sure all Carlton fans feel the same way.

 

[Turbocat]

Exactly! Looking at the Tuohy trade in isolation will only yield a partial picture. Carlton knew what the net result was going to be for shipping out Tuohy and that would have been a key to their negotiations with Geelong. From Geelong's perspective it's Tuohy for a slight downgrade, from Carlton's perspective it's Marchbank, Pickett and a second rounder in this years draft. Appears to be a solid win for both clubs to this point.

Good to see Tuohy doing well btw. I'm sure all Carlton fans feel the same way.

My main concern at the trade was the 2 in 4 requirement.. once that was clarified I think the deal became win/win debatable trade which is ideal.

 

[Jeremias]

Blues supporters just can't resist making my comment about Tuohys form relevant to their part of the trade.

Actually, we just can't resist pointing out how wrong you are on the topic.

That you suggested the "only difference" between the Gibbs and Tuohy scenarios is that the former was contracted, tells us all we need to know about your intentions.

You either don't know what you're talking about, or you're trolling. Either way you probably shouldn't be in here.

 

[dazbroncos]

Stoked to see Zac doing well. Always one of my faves. So durable and consistent. Will have a good career for the cats. Good trade for both clubs. Fancy giving us Duncan or Guthrie for our kind service

yeah..





nah....

GO Catters

 

[Rich01]

You either don't know what you're talking about, or you're trolling. Either way you probably shouldn't be in here.

And again.

Just like the Gibbs to Adelaide trade thread, seems you can't have an opinion that's outside of the SOS circle jerking without being chastised.

You should probably just leave it be.

 

[Jeremias]

Just like the Gibbs to Adelaide trade thread, seems you can't have an opinion that's outside of the SOS circle jerking without being chastised.

What relevance does SOS have to the point I pulled you up on? Just in case there was previously any doubt, your inability to separate the two issues confirms you're clearly having a laugh.

If you don't like being pulled up for posting garbage, the simple solution is to stop posting garbage. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but when you're so clearly wrong you're going to be called out for it.

You can claim to the contrary all you like, but the very clear reality is there are plenty of differences between the Gibbs and Tuohy situations. That one had a contract and the other didn't was not the only factor at play.

 

[Rich01]

You can claim to the contrary all you like, but the very clear reality is there are plenty of differences between the Gibbs and Tuohy situations. That one had a contract and the other didn't was not the only factor at play.

Great, so instead of just blatently shutting someone down, how about outlining the 'plenty of differences' between the Gibbs and Tuohy situations that saw Tuohy go to Geelong for a slight pick downgrade, whereas Carlton demanded two first rounders for SOS.

Genuinely interested in why there was such a discrepancy.

 

[Tushay]

Tell me what the net result for the blues was again?
Blues supporters just can't resist making my comment about Tuohys form relevant to their part of the trade.

Tell you? You? But you're the expert!

Tuohy (28 years old) & our 2017 2nd (c. 20) effectively* for Marchbank, Pickett, Williamson and Smedts. (* balancing later picks in and out)

Marchbank - likely 200 game FB
Williamson - likely 200 game rebounding HBF
Pickett - could be a steal with some fitness post lisfranc
Smedts - seconds and some depth

Bloody good business by Carlton, and Geelong.

 

[Rich01]

Tell you? You? But you're the expert!
.

If you truly feel that way you aren't obliged to respond. But it was a simple question.

No need to be snide.

 

[Monkey King]

Great, so instead of just blatently shutting someone down, how about outlining the 'plenty of differences' between the Gibbs and Tuohy situations that saw Tuohy go to Geelong for a slight pick downgrade, whereas Carlton demanded two first rounders for SOS.

Genuinely interested in why there was such a discrepancy.

Clear differences that I can see off the top of my head.

1) Structure - Gibbs is a midfielder, an area in which Carlton have very little depth. Tuohy is a HBF, probably the only area in which they have an oversupply.

2) Quality - Gibbs is a BnF winner at Carlton and has finished top 5 in almost all his seasons and has made the All Australian squad playing midfield. Tuohy finished top 5 once in six seasons.

3) Leadership - Gibbs is deputy vice captain and been in a leadership group voted on by the players for some time. Tuohy, was not and never has been, in the leadership group.

4) Salary Cap - with Gibbs' contract having been front loaded, him leaving is not going to open up much space. Certainly more bang for your buck in overall list management with Gibbs than Tuohy. You'd be reluctant letting that advantage go for cheap.

And of course, the contract looms large in any comparison. Had Tuohy been under a largely front loaded contract like Gibbs, I doubt he would have been traded for what he was.