Traded Zach Tuohy [traded to Geelong with 2017 2nd rd pk for Smedts, 2017 1st rd pk and pick 63]

[SickQwon]

Trading Tuohy for the Marchbank pick meant we didn't trade pick 6

So we were able to retain pick 6 (SPS) and get Marchbank who was a former pick 7

What a great trade for both clubs.

Lucky i'm not stupid and unable to see this.

 

[Rich01]

Trading Tuohy for the Marchbank pick meant we didn't trade pick 6

So we were able to retain pick 6 (SPS) and get Marchbank who was a former pick 7

What a great trade for both clubs.

Lucky i'm not stupid and unable to see this.

No doubt both clubs would be happy at the net result.

 

[Ambrosia]

I still don't understand why the Blues forced this bloke out of their club while forcing Gibbs to stay.

If the Blues traded Gibbs for Adelaide's 2017 first and Jaryd Lyons they would have been able to keep Tuohy and their 2017 second rounder.

What would you rather Gibbs and Smedts or Tuohy, Lyons and pick 20 this year?

 

[Love the Drake]

I still don't understand why the Blues forced this bloke out of their club while forcing Gibbs to stay.

If the Blues traded Gibbs for Adelaide's 2017 first and Jaryd Lyons they would have been able to keep Tuohy and their 2017 second rounder.

What would you rather Gibbs and Smedts or Tuohy, Lyons and pick 20 this year?

There was a lot more involved than smedts for tuohy.

The trade was Tuohy and Carltons 2017 2nd, for Smedts and Geelongs 2016 1st - which we used for marchbank and Pickett.

We needed Geelongs first round pick to appease GWS for marchbank. We traded in a highly regarded 20 year old CHB and an explosive 20 year old small forward. Both to fill needs.

Geelong filled a need, as Enright had just retired and tuohy has slotted in nicely.

The Gibbs non-trade was a seperate issue.

As stated previously. Win/win.

 

[Jeremias]

I still don't understand why the Blues forced this bloke out of their club while forcing Gibbs to stay.

Bit of a simplistic way of looking at things, especially considering we didn't force Tuohy out.

We offered him a contract and he chose to take a bigger one on offer at Geelong.

No doubt we saw him as expendable (fair enough too for a 27 year old half back given where we're at) but we'd have been happy enough for him to stay on our terms.

We've done that over the past couple of years with certain players, so presumably we're implementing a more rigid pay structure which will hopefully hold us in better stead heading forward than what we've done previously.

The situation is clearly very different to that of Gibbs who had 3 years remaining on a lucrative contract. As one of our best players, f we're going to lose him it's on our terms.

If the Blues traded Gibbs for Adelaide's 2017 first and Jaryd Lyons they would have been able to keep Tuohy and their 2017 second rounder.

Why would we trade one of our best players for Lyons who Adelaide traded for the equivalent of pick 40?

If we wanted Lyons we could have comfortably trumped the offer that came from the Suns by packaging some of our 3rd and 4th round picks.

He's a good footballer but not what we were looking for and clearly the Crows weren't too fussed about moving him on.

Ultimately we didn't do that trade and I can pretty comfortably say we're better off for it.

What would you rather Gibbs and Smedts or Tuohy, Lyons and pick 20 this year?

The former, even if you take Smedts out of the equation.

 

[Hamingja]

Bit of a simplistic way of looking at things, especially considering we didn't force Tuohy out.

We offered him a contract and he chose to take a bigger one on offer at Geelong.

That is a bit disingenuous.

It would be like a Geelong supporter saying we didn't force Menzel out as we offered him a contract.

If the contract is insulting like Tuohy/Menzel you can't turn around and say well the reason they left was the player taking a better deal.

 

[DanA]

That is a bit disingenuous.

It would be like a Geelong supporter saying we didn't force Menzel out as we offered him a contract.

If the contract is insulting like Tuohy/Menzel you can't turn around and say well the reason they left was the player taking a better deal.

Geelong: Touhy + pick 20 for Smedts + pick 15
Carlton: Marchbank + Pickett + Smedts for Touhy + pick 20
GWS: Marchbank + Pickett + pick 32 for pick 17

Feels to me like GWS were the ones that lost out. Carlton and Geelong both did well.

 

[Hamingja]

Geelong: Touhy + pick 20 for Smedts + pick 15
Carlton: Marchbank + Smedts for pick 20
GWS: Marchbank pick + 32 for Deledio

Feels to me like GWS were the ones that lost out. Carlton and Geelong both did well.

efa

 

[Jeremias]

That is a bit disingenuous.

Tuohy is a good footballer and was well liked at Carlton, but clearly he was seen as someone who wasn't integral to our rebuild.

We'd have been happy enough for him to stay - and if he did it would have been for far less than he could get elsewhere.

Maybe it's semantics, but we offered Zach a contract. I don't see this as being comparable to the Robinson and Garlett situation a few years back, who we did force out but didn't handle particularly well.

We offered Tuohy a contract and (rightly) he chose to look elsewhere for a better one.

 

[tenderwarrior]

Geelong: Touhy + pick 20 for Smedts + pick 15
Carlton: Marchbank + Pickett + Smedts for Touhy + pick 20
GWS: Marchbank + Pickett + pick 32 for pick 17

Feels to me like GWS were the ones that lost out. Carlton and Geelong both did well.

Looking at the trades in their entirety is complicated, as picks can now be used for draft points, so it is not as black and white as it used to be.

I haven't explained how all these picks came about, but it was all a butterfly effect of essentially the Geelong/Carlton trade.

.............................................................................
Geelong lose: Kersten, Smedts, 2017 Pick 17?
Geelong get: Touhy, 2017 Pick 21?

Geelong obviously do well here, have taken a slight pick downgrade (between 3-8 places depending on finishing position and AFL hand-outs) and have received Touhy and given up a couple of depth players

.............................................................................
Carlton lose: Touhy, 2017 Pick 21?
Carlton get: Marchbank, Smedts, Pickett, Williamson, Kerr,

Carlton also gave up picks Pick 45 and Pick 58 to GWS who used for Academy bids, but grabbed Macreadie and Polson at picks 47 and 59 with picks received ultimately out of their GWS deal (they on-traded a GWS 2017 second rounder to Hawks for a flurry of picks) , so I have just let this as even.

Carlton have done well here, Williamson looks like a good prospect, and Marchbank will be a great player down back, maybe even a future All Australian CHB.

.............................................................................
GWS lose: Marchbank, Pickett, 2017 Pick 33?, 2017 Pick 51?
GWS get: Deledio, Handy draft points to bid on Perryman and Cummings

On paper it looks like GWS haven't done as well out of this as the other two teams, but GWS needed those picks 45 and 58 to help them get enough points for Perryman and Cummings. Pick 45 probably got 1/3 of Perryman, and Pick 58 got 1/4 of Cummings.

*GWS also got Deledio, which I originally overlooked as the Wiki AFL 2016 Draft page has the Deledio trade happening BEFORE the Geelong/Carlton trade, so I missed it!

.............................................................................

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Geelong: Touhy + pick 20 for Smedts + pick 15
Carlton: Marchbank + Pickett + Smedts for Touhy + pick 20
GWS: Marchbank + Pickett + pick 32 for pick 17

Feels to me like GWS were the ones that lost out. Carlton and Geelong both did well.

Gws bit was effectively deledio in (as they on traded the first rounder they got for marchbank and pickett for him) for marchbank pickett and a 3rd rounder.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

efa

It was actually marchbank pickett and their 2017 3rd (pick 51 currently) for deledio.

 

[Ambrosia]

There was a lot more involved than smedts for tuohy.

The trade was Tuohy and Carltons 2017 2nd, for Smedts and Geelongs 2016 1st - which we used for marchbank and Pickett.

We needed Geelongs first round pick to appease GWS for marchbank. We traded in a highly regarded 20 year old CHB and an explosive 20 year old small forward. Both to fill needs.

Geelong filled a need, as Enright had just retired and tuohy has slotted in nicely.

The Gibbs non-trade was a seperate issue.

As stated previously. Win/win.

The whole point of my post was to point out that Carlton could have used the pick for Gibbs to acquire Marchbank and Pickett

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

The whole point of my post was to point out that Carlton could have used the pick for Gibbs to acquire Marchbank and Pickett

We weren't going to let a player with a 3 year deal walk for unders. We got in Marchbank and Pickett and now stand to get something in addition for Gibbs that is better than what was being offered up last year to hopefully take to the draft.

 

[Malifice]

The whole point of my post was to point out that Carlton could have used the pick for Gibbs to acquire Marchbank and Pickett

We have 3 pretty good rebounding defenders in Docherty and Byrne (plus Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank, Macreadie, Jones, Rowe, A Silvagni) and veteran Simpson.

Defenders we have.

 

[Ambrosia]

We weren't going to let a player with a 3 year deal walk for unders. We got in Marchbank and Pickett and now stand to get something in addition for Gibbs that is better than what was being offered up last year to hopefully take to the draft.

I seriously doubt you're going to get more than the equivalent of Tuohy, Pick 20 and Lyon's for Gibbs this year.

We have 3 pretty good rebounding defenders in Docherty and Byrne (plus Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank, Macreadie, Jones, Rowe, A Silvagni) and veteran Simpson.

Defenders we have.

Docherty would have relished the opportunity to play midfield and Simpson looks cooked to me.

 

[Malifice]

I seriously doubt you're going to get more than the equivalent of Tuohy, Pick 20 and Lyon's for Gibbs this year.

If Gibbs leaves, we'll get at least a 1st (this year or next).

We needed Gibbs this year. Despite playing a lot of kids, we only got flogged 3 times, and were in most games right till the very end (we lost 8 close ones, that we were leading in the last).

Take Gibbs out, and we get smashed a lot more often, and lose even more games. This isnt good for the culture or the kids.

Just ask Melbourne.

Docherty would have relished the opportunity to play midfield and Simpson looks cooked to me.

Docherty made AA off the backline. Im more than happy to leave him there in a position he owns.

Simpson cooked?

In addition to averaging 24 disposals and 7.4 marks this year, he also ranked:

Ranked 6th in Total Kicks

Ranked 5th in Total Marks

Ranked 15th in Total Rebound 50s

Ranked 20th in Total Bounces

Ranked 7th in Kicks Per Game

Ranked 7th in Marks Per Game

Ranked 16th in Time On Ground % Per Game

Best games this year were:

29 disps (20 kicks 9 hballs) and 9 marks in Rd 23 81-pt loss to Sydney at the SCG (26 Aug 2017)

25 disps (17 kicks 8 hballs) and 8 marks in Rd 22 7-pt win over Hawthorn at Etihad Stadium (19 Aug 2017)

35 disps (28 kicks 7 hballs) and 10 marks in Rd 16 8-pt loss to Melbourne at the MCG (9 Jul 2017)

33 disps (26 kicks 7 hballs) and 15 marks in Rd 13 10-pt win over Gold Coast at Metricon Stadium (17 Jun 2017)

27 disps (21 kicks 6 hballs) and 7 marks in Rd 8 19-pt loss to St Kilda at Etihad Stadium (13 May 2017)

26 disps (21 kicks 5 hballs), 9 marks and a goal in Rd 7 23-pt win over Collingwood at the MCG (6 May 2017)

31 disps (25 kicks 6 hballs), 12 marks, 8 tackles and a goal in Rd 6 19-pt win over Sydney at the MCG (29 Apr 2017)

33 disps (22 kicks 11 hballs) and 7 marks in Rd 1 43-pt loss to Richmond at the MCG (23 Mar 2017)

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-carlton-blues--kade-simpson

At his age, he is always a few bad games away from the end, but I'm not sticking a fork in him just yet

 

[Sector 7G]

I seriously doubt you're going to get more than the equivalent of Tuohy, Pick 20 and Lyon's for Gibbs this year.



Docherty would have relished the opportunity to play midfield and Simpson looks cooked to me.

2E is worth about the mid second that EFC got for Hibbert or Melbourne got for Howe. That is all good Flankers get you. If we don't get more than that Gibbs will be at Carlton. We also got a valuable year out of Gibbs.

Simpson looked cooked at times because he and the rest of the midfielders were doing too much when the young players ran out of juice after 3qtr time. This problem would only be made worse without Gibbs.

 

[tenderwarrior]

Gws bit was effectively deledio in (as they on traded the first rounder they got for marchbank and pickett for him) for marchbank pickett and a 3rd rounder.

Yeah I missed the Deledio part when I was trying to make sense of it all.

GWS lost: Marchbank, Pickett, 2017 Pick 33?, 2017 Pick 51?
GWS got: Deledio, Handy draft picks (Picks 45 and 58) to use as points to bid on Perryman and Cummings

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Yeah I missed the Deledio part when I was trying to make sense of it all.

GWS lost: Marchbank, Pickett, 2017 Pick 33?, 2017 Pick 51?
GWS got: Deledio, Handy draft picks (Picks 45 and 58) to use as points to bid on Perryman and Cummings

In conclusion every club got what they wanted out of the trade sequence and every clubs supporters are happy................except other supporters whose club had no bearing on the trade who wish to start a shit fight..........................

 

[tenderwarrior]

In conclusion every club got what they wanted out of the trade sequence and every clubs supporters are happy................except other supporters whose club had no bearing on the trade who wish to start a shit fight..........................

I haven't read the first 47 pages of this thread, but I think you are correct

 

[Malifice]

I haven't read the first 47 pages of this thread, but I think you are correct

I reckon we should have squeezed you guys for more. 15 odd and Smedts for Touhy and 20 is unders. Because of our lowballing of Touhy and the fact he was uncontracted we were limited in how hard we could push back.

Smedts looks like a bloke with talent that refuses to pull his finger out. Delisted in short order if he doesnt.

Of course, we didnt know where those Draft picks were going to land last year. But I would have thought 10-18 for the cats was a fair estimate, and 19-23 was a fair estimate for us.

In the long run we got the currency we needed to do the deal with GWS for Mbank and Pickett (and retain pick 5 used on SPS) so it works out.

 

[tenderwarrior]

I reckon we should have squeezed you guys for more. 15 odd and Smedts for Touhy and 20 is unders. Because of our lowballing of Touhy and the fact he was uncontracted we were limited in how hard we could push back.

Smedts looks like a bloke with talent that refuses to pull his finger out. Delisted in short order if he doesnt.

Of course, we didnt know where those Draft picks were going to land last year. But I would have thought 10-18 for the cats was a fair estimate, and 19-23 was a fair estimate for us.

In the long run we got the currency we needed to do the deal with GWS for Mbank and Pickett (and retain pick 5 used on SPS) so it works out.

You also traded the future second rounder you received from GWS for picks that together with the Pick 63 you got from Geelong landed you Macreadie, Polson, Williamson and Kerr, and so potentially have half your backline for the next 10 years out of those trades, as Macreadie and Williamson look very very promising as well. I think as time goes on, the Blues will look to have come out of it better and better as those young players continue to develop. I agree that you could have probably got more for Tuohy, but I felt the same when we traded out Christensen and Caddy!

 

[The 747]

I reckon we should have squeezed you guys for more. 15 odd and Smedts for Touhy and 20 is unders. Because of our lowballing of Touhy and the fact he was uncontracted we were limited in how hard we could push back.

Smedts looks like a bloke with talent that refuses to pull his finger out. Delisted in short order if he doesnt.

Of course, we didnt know where those Draft picks were going to land last year. But I would have thought 10-18 for the cats was a fair estimate, and 19-23 was a fair estimate for us.

In the long run we got the currency we needed to do the deal with GWS for Mbank and Pickett (and retain pick 5 used on SPS) so it works out.

I thought it was unders but that Carlton were being helpful for Touhy because they didn't want to pay him much, had his position covered, and he had been a good servant.

Smedts is no good, just can't cut it at AFL level.

 

[Agent 007]

Hell yeah ... I would go for that !!! I would even throw in Liam Jones as the steak knives.

Would you now? Haha