Coach 2022 Coaching

[StCicatriz]

fu** me. Just rename the club Nadia.

Hanners likes this post

 

[gringo2011]

Completely agree. We're a mentally weak side, we've shown that time and again in the last few years.

We were lucky for a long time to have Roo and Lenny leading us through brick walls. We replaced them with leaders that don't really seem to be leaders unfortunately. Gears, Ross, Members, Billings - even Steeley unfortunately. None of them seem to have the right combination of will and skill to be able to drive performance from the rest.

This was always the biggest argument in favour of Hanners, that if he could get out there running around for a few years, he could single-handedly lift standards at the club. But that didn't happen.

And we still don't have them even after bringing in experienced players. Paddy, Hill, Crouch, Jones, Wood, etc. None of them are leaders either.

It's not clear to me who our real emerging leaders are but fingers crossed there are some, otherwise another decade in the wilderness is likely.

The guys that we drafted 7 to 10 years ago were beta types who folded their underpants and made their beds but needed their mum's permission to go out on weekends. You go after players with low levels of assertiveness you don't get a great deal of jump out of the trenches type leaders.

 

[stavro#4]

The guys that we drafted 7 to 10 years ago were beta types who folded their underpants and made their beds but needed their mum's permission to go out on weekends. You go after players with low levels of assertiveness you don't get a great deal of jump out of the trenches type leaders.

Jack Billings epitomises this.

 

[SaintJunior]

The guys that we drafted 7 to 10 years ago were beta types who folded their underpants and made their beds but needed their mum's permission to go out on weekends. You go after players with low levels of assertiveness you don't get a great deal of jump out of the trenches type leaders.

Really interesting point.

Was at a coaching seminar on Sunday and Ernie Merrick was one of the speakers.

He made the point about when looking at players you don’t want the super compliant types you want to be recruiting the less complaint types not totally off of the rails but players that will require some management .

His reasoning was risk takers win things players who are totally compliant won’t take a risk so may be good but not great.

The examples he used were Archie Thompson and Kevin Muscat. Took more management but were game changers and leaders.

I was sitting there and my mind went to our recruiting.

I think as a club we are vanilla because of past off field stuff and lack of historical success.

If we take a risk and it fails it is typical St Kilda , if a big club with a history of success does it no such problem.

Need to start making bold decisions and aim for greatness rather than bland decisions.

 

[stavro#4]

Ahh the once upon a time great white hope. What a life he is living since getting dumped by us.

 

[George]

That's awesome. He had a great first year in the NFL for us too!

 

[Ads734]

I'd suggest

Really interesting point.

Was at a coaching seminar on Sunday and Ernie Merrick was one of the speakers.

He made the point about when looking at players you don’t want the super compliant types you want to be recruiting the less complaint types not totally off of the rails but players that will require some management .

His reasoning was risk takers win things players who are totally compliant won’t take a risk so may be good but not great.

The examples he used were Archie Thompson and Kevin Muscat. Took more management but were game changers and leaders.

I was sitting there and my mind went to our recruiting.

I think as a club we are vanilla because of past off field stuff and lack of historical success.

If we take a risk and it fails it is typical St Kilda , if a big club with a history of success does it no such problem.

Need to start making bold decisions and aim for greatness rather than bland decisions.

you need a mix of both tbh. You can't just have too many risk takers. Every team needs role players, like Dmac, Nick Maxwell, Nick Smith, Dylan Grimes. I think St Kilda's issue is not in the recruiting however, I thinkn its more in the development of this attribute. On the other hand I think the Dogs are exceptionally good at developing this skill.

 

[stavro#4]

I'd suggest

you need a mix of both tbh. You can't just have too many risk takers. Every team needs role players, like Dmac, Nick Maxwell, Nick Smith, Dylan Grimes. I think St Kilda's issue is not in the recruiting however, I thinkn its more in the development of this attribute. On the other hand I think the Dogs are exceptionally good at developing this skill.

Have you see their coach? Flys off the handle at journos. Looks like chopper Reid. Probably benches more then 95% of their playing list.

Meanwhile our last 2 coaches are the grandpa and dad types.

They Stick an arm around you, have a cuddle and tell you to be a good boy and Don’t get too dirty on the weekend. We don’t want mum to have to soak your clothes young Jack.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I don't buy this, we have had a hard talk BS anymore.

First quarter of the first game of a new season and the pressure index is 168.

If you can't start the first game with pressure there is something fundamentally wrong at the club.

Being a supporter is like being in a cult. they feed you the same word salad crisis meetings every year with the same result. And the cultists (you and I) let them and fall for it.

wears a bit thin.

And that even after them telling us that they knew what they were expecting and going to get from Collingwood pressure-wise.
Unforgivable to go into any game, let alone the first of the season, with that kind of pressure.

 

[Ads734]

Have you see their coach? Flys off the handle at journos. Looks like chopper Reid. Probably benches more then 95% of their playing list.

Meanwhile our last 2 coaches are the grandpa and dad types.

They Stick an arm around you, have a cuddle and tell you to be a good boy and Don’t get too dirty on the weekend. We don’t want mum to have to soak your clothes young Jack.

Yea I don't dissagree. I actually have some susbitions though that Beveridge knew exactly what he was doing and it was to rpotect Hunter in the end imo. Whatever you say about his attitde towards the media he has an amzing ability to let players get to their potential.

 

[stavro#4]

Yea I don't dissagree. I actually have some susbitions though that Beveridge knew exactly what he was doing and it was to rpotect Hunter in the end imo. Whatever you say about his attitde towards the media he has an amzing ability to let players get to their potential.

I don’t agree with what he did. But I love how he doesn’t take a backwards step in his beliefs.

Flag winning coach. 2 grand finals. Superstars getting developed as often as stkilda drafts the next kids with potential.

 

[FQFjt]

Really interesting point.

Was at a coaching seminar on Sunday and Ernie Merrick was one of the speakers.

He made the point about when looking at players you don’t want the super compliant types you want to be recruiting the less complaint types not totally off of the rails but players that will require some management .

His reasoning was risk takers win things players who are totally compliant won’t take a risk so may be good but not great.

The examples he used were Archie Thompson and Kevin Muscat. Took more management but were game changers and leaders.

I was sitting there and my mind went to our recruiting.

I think as a club we are vanilla because of past off field stuff and lack of historical success.

If we take a risk and it fails it is typical St Kilda , if a big club with a history of success does it no such problem.

Need to start making bold decisions and aim for greatness rather than bland decisions.

Can't help but wonder whether this topic was on Ernie's mind as a result of his spending time at our club.

 

[gringo2011]

I'd suggest

you need a mix of both tbh. You can't just have too many risk takers. Every team needs role players, like Dmac, Nick Maxwell, Nick Smith, Dylan Grimes. I think St Kilda's issue is not in the recruiting however, I thinkn its more in the development of this attribute. On the other hand I think the Dogs are exceptionally good at developing this skill.

You don't but I used to get to club events back when we were recruiting guys like Billings, DMac and Paddy Mac. All three are noticeably really sweet boys. DMac is the kind of boy you hope your daughter marries. He'd be the type that would call his mum on a Sunday night. He's an absolute testament to his parents, perfect manners, seems smart and organised and without the slightest bit of ego, mongrel or meanness in his demeanour.

Paddy was the same, possibly the nicest kid I've ever met, sweet natured, kind and giving...almost selflessly so. Billings would blush if you made eye contact and his voice would squeak like a little bit of pee might come out if there was a loud bang. It was theme amongst all of that era.

I've met some of the legends of AFL in a role I used to do. 90% of them were arseholes and egotistical pricks. Jordan DeGoey would probably be an absolute ****wit off field but his ability to forget to be shit and just take control of a game is what makes him great at sport.

Whoever prioritised nice boys without using some kind of extra psychometric testing shit was a list destroyer.

 

[FQFjt]

So Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

is much further away than expected? He is still listed as 4-6 weeks when the original prognosis 4 weeks ago was 4-6 weeks.

On the other hand, Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

(widely considered one of the most professional trainers in the league) has managed to shorten his time on the sidelines and is playing this week.

Quite the contrast...

 

[George]

So Hunter Clark is much further away than expected? He is still listed as 4-6 weeks when the original prognosis 4 weeks ago was 4-6 weeks.

On the other hand, Sam Walsh (widely considered one of the most professional trainers in the league) has managed to shorten his time on the sidelines and is playing this week.

Quite the contrast...

Yeah, the contrast probably has something to do with one injury being an ankle and the other being a shoulder lol

 

[stavro#4]

So Hunter Clark is much further away than expected? He is still listed as 4-6 weeks when the original prognosis 4 weeks ago was 4-6 weeks.

On the other hand, Sam Walsh (widely considered one of the most professional trainers in the league) has managed to shorten his time on the sidelines and is playing this week.

Quite the contrast...

Blokes collarbone kinda looked all kinds of screwed up. I wouldn’t be rushing him back or expecting him back sooner then later.

Kinda different to a syndemosis injury.

 

[Ads734]

I don’t agree with what he did. But I love how he doesn’t take a backwards step in his beliefs.

Flag winning coach. 2 grand finals. Superstars getting developed as often as stkilda drafts the next kids with potential.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[saintkildaman]

Completely agree. We're a mentally weak side, we've shown that time and again in the last few years.

We were lucky for a long time to have Roo and Lenny leading us through brick walls. We replaced them with leaders that don't really seem to be leaders unfortunately. Gears, Ross, Members, Billings - even Steeley unfortunately. None of them seem to have the right combination of will and skill to be able to drive performance from the rest.

This is a really good point and probably a big explanation as to why we are such an ordinary side when we’re off. You look across all the teams that have been decent the past few years and all of them have had strong leadership groups with a number of players worthy of captaincy.

Comparing our leaders now to the premiership favourites and it’s no surprise when the going gets tough we fall to shit. As you said, most of our senior players don’t seem to have the combo of will and skill.. hope I’m wrong but after we continue to shit the bed in either big or must win games I can’t see this group making it to September let alone rising to the occasion in the big dance.

 

[Ads734]

You don't but I used to get to club events back when we were recruiting guys like Billings, DMac and Paddy Mac. All three are noticeably really sweet boys. DMac is the kind of boy you hope your daughter marries. He'd be the type that would call his mum on a Sunday night. He's an absolute testament to his parents, perfect manners, seems smart and organised and without the slightest bit of ego, mongrel or meanness in his demeanour.

Paddy was the same, possibly the nicest kid I've ever met, sweet natured, kind and giving...almost selflessly so. Billings would blush if you made eye contact and his voice would squeak like a little bit of pee might come out if there was a loud bang. It was theme amongst all of that era.

I've met some of the legends of AFL in a role I used to do. 90% of them were arseholes and egotistical pricks. Jordan DeGoey would probably be an absolute ******* off field but his ability to forget to be sh*t and just take control of a game is what makes him great at sport.

Whoever prioritised nice boys without using some kind of extra psychometric testing sh*t was a list destroyer.

Gringo your subjective, antidotal analysis on the character of our players and how you extrapolate that to their personality on field is really flawed. I am not denying your experience of your meetings with them. However to draw these conclusions is so unfair. Also you making it as though being slightly shy in front of the camera or 'nice' or 'sweet' as you put it could be wrong fora thousand reasons. Assuming that they are like that does not neccesarily reflect their ability on the field/demenaour. Maybe sometimes it does. Also I don't know why being shy/not 'rough around the edges' off the field impacts either ina good or bad way. Youlve made this distiction that somehows proves our poor recruiting. I am not even certain that we ever had a policy of recruiting guys like that.

Some case examples that prove my point

'Nice' or 'shy' guys who have dominated

Gary Ablet Jr
Buddy
Mcrae
Bont
Kelly
Cripps
Sloan
Mcclugage
Lenny Hayes
Josh Kennedy
Jack Sinclair

You don't but I used to get to club events back when we were recruiting guys like Billings, DMac and Paddy Mac. All three are noticeably really sweet boys. DMac is the kind of boy you hope your daughter marries. He'd be the type that would call his mum on a Sunday night. He's an absolute testament to his parents, perfect manners, seems smart and organised and without the slightest bit of ego, mongrel or meanness in his demeanour.

Paddy was the same, possibly the nicest kid I've ever met, sweet natured, kind and giving...almost selflessly so. Billings would blush if you made eye contact and his voice would squeak like a little bit of pee might come out if there was a loud bang. It was theme amongst all of that era.

I've met some of the legends of AFL in a role I used to do. 90% of them were arseholes and egotistical pricks. Jordan DeGoey would probably be an absolute ******* off field but his ability to forget to be sh*t and just take control of a game is what makes him great at sport.

Whoever prioritised nice boys without using some kind of extra psychometric testing sh*t was a list destroyer.

 

[FQFjt]

Yeah, the contrast probably has something to do with one injury being an ankle and the other being a shoulder lol

Many points of contrast, type of injury included. I make no criticism of Hunter.

 

[g_TRAIN]

You don't but I used to get to club events back when we were recruiting guys like Billings, DMac and Paddy Mac. All three are noticeably really sweet boys. DMac is the kind of boy you hope your daughter marries. He'd be the type that would call his mum on a Sunday night. He's an absolute testament to his parents, perfect manners, seems smart and organised and without the slightest bit of ego, mongrel or meanness in his demeanour.

Paddy was the same, possibly the nicest kid I've ever met, sweet natured, kind and giving...almost selflessly so. Billings would blush if you made eye contact and his voice would squeak like a little bit of pee might come out if there was a loud bang. It was theme amongst all of that era.

I've met some of the legends of AFL in a role I used to do. 90% of them were arseholes and egotistical pricks. Jordan DeGoey would probably be an absolute ******* off field but his ability to forget to be sh*t and just take control of a game is what makes him great at sport.

Whoever prioritised nice boys without using some kind of extra psychometric testing sh*t was a list destroyer.

It's also a by-product of their own success though. (Not saying a lot are not born that way inclined)

DeGoey I think is a poor example as he could probably do with being a little less of a piece shit. I think his attitude and off-field stuff have been negative for his footy development. If he worked harder and took footy more seriously he could be like Dusty.

 

[George]

Many points of contrast, type of injury included. I make no criticism of Hunter.

What was the reasoning behind mentioning the professionalism of Walsh? Looks like a pretty obvious insinuation that Hunter isn't professional. Bit of mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion I reckon given they are completely different injuries and require different rehab.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Gringo your subjective, antidotal analysis on the character of our players and how you extrapolate that to their personality on field is really flawed. I am not denying your experience of your meetings with them. However to draw these conclusions is so unfair. Also you making it as though being slightly shy in front of the camera or 'nice' or 'sweet' as you put it could be wrong fora thousand reasons. Assuming that they are like that does not neccesarily reflect their ability on the field/demenaour. Maybe sometimes it does. Also I don't know why being shy/not 'rough around the edges' off the field impacts either ina good or bad way. Youlve made this distiction that somehows proves our poor recruiting. I am not even certain that we ever had a policy of recruiting guys like that.

Some case examples that prove my point

'Nice' or 'shy' guys who have dominated

Gary Ablet Jr
Buddy
Mcrae
Bont
Kelly
Cripps
Sloan
Mcclugage
Lenny Hayes
Josh Kennedy
Jack Sinclair

Yes and Steele fits in this group as well so did Robert Harvey

I don't think being an "alpha" has anything to do with the chances of you being a successful athlete.

Successful athletes often become alpha types because they are young, get paid a shit load, and get a ton of positive media attention. In other words, they start thinking they are better than everyone else.

 

[Ads734]

Yes and Steele fits in this group as well so did Robert Harvey

I don't think being an "alpha" has anything to do with the chances of you being a successful athlete.

Successful athletes often become alpha types because they get paid a sh*t load and get a ton of positive media attention. In other words, they start thinking they are better than everyone else.

I just don't thin there is a correlatoin either way. The reality is. A persona of the field is not indicative of the persona on the field and even so one is not necessarily better then the other. Lastly I don't think we ever had a policy of avoiding those types of players.

The arguement is just so flawed on so many levels. Sam Walsh is another example

 

[FQFjt]

You don't but I used to get to club events back when we were recruiting guys like Billings, DMac and Paddy Mac. All three are noticeably really sweet boys. DMac is the kind of boy you hope your daughter marries. He'd be the type that would call his mum on a Sunday night. He's an absolute testament to his parents, perfect manners, seems smart and organised and without the slightest bit of ego, mongrel or meanness in his demeanour.

Paddy was the same, possibly the nicest kid I've ever met, sweet natured, kind and giving...almost selflessly so. Billings would blush if you made eye contact and his voice would squeak like a little bit of pee might come out if there was a loud bang. It was theme amongst all of that era.

I've met some of the legends of AFL in a role I used to do. 90% of them were arseholes and egotistical pricks. Jordan DeGoey would probably be an absolute ******* off field but his ability to forget to be sh*t and just take control of a game is what makes him great at sport.

Whoever prioritised nice boys without using some kind of extra psychometric testing sh*t was a list destroyer.