Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn, Chad Wingard. 200 games! Announces retirement (2 Sept 2024)

[rjslcM]

2021 - After coming back from his injury and playing midfield Wingard average 28.4 disposals, 1 goal, 2 Goal Assist and 5 clearances, 4.8 Tackles

2019 - After his midfield shift he averaged 24.6 Disposals, .5 Goals, 5 Clearances, 5 Tackles

Are you suggetsing these aren't elite numbers?

you've just arbitrarily chosen random sample sizes though which aren't when he was actually playing midfield

there were clear shifts when he moved from playing fwd pocket to midfield – round 17 in 2019 and round 19 in 2021. Yes, not a heap of games either year, which is what you're suggesting the issue is (lack of consistency due to body struggles), but when he's managed to be in there he's had a good stretch of ~5 games both times

EDIT: it may have been R18 in 2019

I didn't mean to arbitrarily choose 'random' samples - I selected the time periods originally suggested (all of 2021; back half of 2019) in your post, Darthmann.

6 games - From R18-23 in 2019, he averaged 24.6 Disposals, .5 Goals, 5 Clearances, 5 Tackles.
5 games - From R19-23 in 2021, he averaged 28.4 disposals, 1 goal, 2 Goal Assist and 5 clearances, 4.8 Tackles

I would agree that these are elite numbers.

• I concede that he has produced these in 5-6 week blocks, albeit never consistently enough for a full season.
• I concede that he has played better in the midfield, albeit I'm not sure he can get on the park in the midfield for long enough for it to be his best position into the future. Which then brings forth the question, where can he play consistently well enough for long enough for he and his teammates to gel and play predictably with each other...

 

[Sixpence]

If that's really the connection then there's no connection.

I thought it went without saying. Burton and Pick 15 and 35, if that was the trade, is much better than what we have now.

Say we gave up Day for pick 50, in a completely separate trade in the same period we get Bailey Smith and Dunkley for pick 5. Do you say the Day trade was a disaster or the net result has us on top? No games are played between the two trades, so they're connected.

No, it doesn't go without saying, you need to explain why those picks are better than what Wingard has done for us?

Here is the draft for that year:

2018 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Who could we have picked at 15 and 35 (which ended up pick 40) that would have us in a significantly better position than what we are now to call the trade a 'disaster'?

 

[kirbatron]

Say we gave up Day for pick 50, in a completely separate trade in the same period we get Bailey Smith and Dunkley for pick 5. Do you say the Day trade was a disaster or the net result has us on top? No games are played between the two trades, so they're connected.

No, it doesn't go without saying, you need to explain why those picks are better than what Wingard has done for us?

Here is the draft for that year:

2018 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Who could we have picked at 15 and 35 (which ended up pick 40) that would have us in a significantly better position than what we are now to call the trade a 'disaster'?

Yes that Day deal is no good.
The point is why rob peter to pay paul. in other words, paying overs because we have paid unders for another deal is not great trading imo.

 

[Blackhawk42]

How does he represent a cultural win? He was yelled at on the field for not chasing, has resorted to long sleeves and flash hairstyles that were the hallmark of our lean years.

I would say it has something to do with the influence he has on our indigenous program and awareness.

'resorted to long sleeves and flash hairstyles'.
Would you rather players not feel comfortable being themselves? I actually think of the lean years towards the end of Clarkos tenure when I see a sleeveless Chad handcuffed by rules implemented to squash any form of personal identity.

Btw, I'm not the biggest Wingard fan or defender, but he's currently tracking for a 30+ goal season. Genuine question...
If Mitchell is down on touches but the midfield balance is better
And Chad is down on consistency and CBA's but is contributing with over a goal a game in a higher scoring side...

Is it enough? I'd actually suggest that it is.

 

[Sixpence]

I didn't mean to arbitrarily choose 'random' samples - I selected the time periods originally suggested (all of 2021; back half of 2019) in your post, Darthmann.

6 games - From R18-23 in 2019, he averaged 24.6 Disposals, .5 Goals, 5 Clearances, 5 Tackles.
5 games - From R19-23 in 2021, he averaged 28.4 disposals, 1 goal, 2 Goal Assist and 5 clearances, 4.8 Tackles

I would agree that these are elite numbers.

• I concede that he has produced these in 5-6 week blocks, albeit never consistently enough for a full season.
• I concede that he has played better in the midfield, albeit I'm not sure he can get on the park in the midfield for long enough for it to be his best position into the future. Which then brings forth the question, where can he play consistently well enough for long enough for he and his teammates to gel and play predictably with each other...

I can certainly understand being frustrated that his body isn't holding up to play full time in the middle. Though, in full flight, he is comfortably our most damaging mid. Sam knows his value, he'll continue to get games and he'll absolutely be on our list next year. He has a lot of class, you don't just throw that out the window because he's been down a few games.

 

[Sixpence]

Yes that Day deal is no good.
The point is why rob peter to pay paul. in other words, paying overs because we have paid unders for another deal is not great trading imo.

A trade period is designed to improve your overall list. It's not about making each individual trade a win.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Everyone says we got ripped off but has been posted previously,

Burton and Duursma are only just handy players.

What is frustrating is we are paying Chad big coin to produce consistent top end footy or be a real X factor and it doesn’t occur often enough.

 

[kirbatron]

A trade period is designed to improve your overall list. It's not about making each individual trade a win.

I suppose the extra layer is the actual strategy to top up with these boys which lends itself to the overpaid narrative.

 

[rjslcM]

I can certainly understand being frustrated that his body isn't holding up to play full time in the middle. Though, in full flight, he is comfortably our most damaging mid. Sam knows his value, he'll continue to get games and he'll absolutely be on our list next year. He has a lot of class, you don't just throw that out the window because he's been down a few games.

But Sam would have traded him at the end of last year?

He does have class. You don't just throw that out the window because he's been down a few games. But he's only been UP for a few games over how many years?

• 29 years old this year (July)
• He's had two patches of elite form lasting 5-6 games each across the span of 4 years at the club
• He can't play consistently at that level in which he had those elite patches.
• He doesn't play as well when he is switched between mid/forward and/or stays forward, and in fact, I believe other players could offer more when in those positions.

So when does his output (which has been variable, patchy) which is a known commodity at his age - fall below prioritizing a younger, unknown commodity?

It feels like we often play Chad on his potential, rather than what he produces - which is okay for a 21 year old, but not an almost 29 year old.

• We currently have a midfield that would benefit from players with different skillsets going through there
• Someone could potentially offer more in a role that switches between mid/forward, such as Newcombe, with another untried player being able to come into the team.

I've never spoken against Chad before but this is a developing side, age is no longer on his side and his output isn't there.

I've made my point. I'm going to leave it here as anything more would feel like a witchhunt from my end. I truly hope Chad recaptures some form and proves me wrong and maintains that form for as long as possible. I hope that starts next week. That's all.

 

[rjslcM]

Everyone says we got ripped off but has been posted previously,

Burton and Duursma are only just handy players.

What is frustrating is we are paying Chad big coin to produce consistent top end footy or be a real X factor and it doesn’t occur often enough.

Yeah, maybe I'm just a frustrated with what he's paid more than anything.

Maybe I hoped for much more from him at his 750K p/y and needed a vent.

Back on 350K or so next year as somebody alluded to earlier, he'll be a more-than-serviceable very handy role player and I'll be happier with his output and not expect too much. Maybe that's it.

 

[Sixpence]

Yeah, maybe I'm just a frustrated with what he's paid more than anything.

Maybe I hoped for much more from him at his 750K p/y and needed a vent.

Back on 350K or so next year as somebody alluded to earlier, he'll be a more-than-serviceable very handy role player and I'll be happier with his output and not expect too much. Maybe that's it.

I can understand that angle. If it helps any, I think we're still well under cap, so it's not forcing anyone out at the moment.

 

[Lethality]

Who could we have picked at 15 and 35 (which ended up pick 40) that would have us in a significantly better position than what we are now to call the trade a 'disaster'?

Given our recent history at the draft, probably some handy players.

When i say the trade was a disaster it's not to criticise Chad. I'm sure his heart is in the right place.

It's a reminder of the arrogance of the coach or list management, who thought we were closer to challenging in September than we were.

We have to learn from this or we'll repeat the mistake in years to come.

 

[Brishawk]

Yes that Day deal is no good.
The point is why rob peter to pay paul. in other words, paying overs because we have paid unders for another deal is not great trading imo.

Because the net change to the list was negligible. It is about list management not trades. I think we didn’t drive a hard enough deal with port but the net change to the list was not as big a deal as people make out. In any case, it’s time to move on

 

[Brishawk]

Given our recent history at the draft, probably some handy players.

When i say the trade was a disaster it's not to criticise Chad. I'm sure his heart is in the right place.

It's a reminder of the arrogance of the coach or list management, who thought we were closer to challenging in September than we were.

We have to learn from this or we'll repeat the mistake in years to come.

Both Clarko and Wright are gone. They made a bet. It didn’t lay off. But we started the youth focus 3 years ago now so let’s move on

 

[flinchfree]

.............. has resorted to long sleeves and flash hairstyles that were the hallmark of our lean years.

Ohhhhh, boy.

Remember this guy?


And this fella?

 

[Lethality]

Ohhhhh, boy.

Remember this guy?
View attachment 1363630

And this fella?

The two guys with 12 flags between them?

 

[flinchfree]

The two guys with 12 flags between them?

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........what you meant to say was?

 

[Lethality]

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........what you meant to say was?

If Chad can at least perform consistently I'd probably care less. At this point it smacks more of the pretty boy culture under Schwab.

 

[The German Hunter]

Chad not kid, no play him

 

[MrPremiership]

Chad not kid, no play him

need more youf


Drop Morrison

 

[threesixpio]

If Chad can at least perform consistently I'd probably care less. At this point it smacks more of the pretty boy culture under Schwab.

Come off it. Focus on his performance rather than this crap.

 

[flinchfree]

If Chad can at least perform consistently I'd probably care less. At this point it smacks more of the pretty boy culture under Schwab.

Only less?
Yup, you're pretty douchey on this topic.
Did you care AT ALL when Tucky and Derm were running around tearing the comp a new one, or did you secretly think Tuck was a weakling and Derm uncomfortably metrosexual?

You're making it hard after putting out that sympathy post and then following up with real dick thinking, I mean I wanna like you, but you're making it so tough.

 

[rjslcM]

Chad not kid, no play him

need more youf


Drop Morrison

Congrats for making yourselves look silly. The arguments have been more nuanced than that. Shame on you for attempting to belittle someone in a respectful debate.

Mitchell had a good game - despite his dropped chest mark - 7 score involvements, 20 odd touches with half of them contested at 70% DE. Morrison was in my top 5 players for the game.

 

[MrPremiership]

5 goals in 2.5 games (subbed out very early vs Port) has been a pretty handy return. Not too many small forwards going better than that right now.

I don't understand the angst here.

Can only shudder about the vitriol Chad and others would get if we were 0-3

 

[Topiary]

I agree but I understand Chad is playing with tight hammies.