Unofficial Preview Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 18 vs. Adelaide, Sat 16/07, 1:45pm AO

[Prexm]

Hes horrible at afl level, and macrae has well and truly passed him at vfl level. He’s rushed and struggles with pressure at vfl level let alone afl. Won’t be on the list end of season. Might get invited to train elsewhere, maybe north where I believe his old man is involved? not 100%

We have to at minimum make 3 changes to the main list of 36. Apart from Noble taking Roughys spot , you would think C Brown would be the next certain not to be on the list next year. Don’t see any benefit of playing him again.

 

[Scodog10]

Mason Cox in 70% game time against CCJ and Corr:

11 disposals
4 tackles
7 marks
5 contested marks
19 Hit outs
0 goals
0 support for Mihocek
2 goals conceded to Goldstein
I think he’ll keep his spot.

EFA.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

If Moore isn't ready, Will Kelly has to come in, Howe can not be let to sit on a big tall. McRae was silly to do that.

i made the comment at the game that it smacked of arrogance TBH.

Starting bounce was Murphy on Goldy.....straight out of the middle to Goldy, contested mark.....sigh!
We looked very small behind the ball.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

In: Moore, Macrae and Johnson
Out: Henry (rest), Adams and Cox (putrid)

I’d use WHE as a stationary target I50 in place of Henry and shift Noble up the field. The last change is a bit of fun because Cox offers nothing as a forward and is useless as a ruckman unless he wins the hitout. I doubt we go that way.

Sunday’s match has been a while coming with half a dozen guys going at about 50% capacity the last few weeks (Lipinski, Crisp, Pendles, Cox, Ginnivan and obviously Henry) plus Howe was away with the fairies for 3/4. For me it’s about application over the next couple because looking at our season we’re in the midst of the 4th of about 6 blocks (1st up to ANZAC day, 2nd the virus weeks and 3rd Fremantle up to the bye) the final 2 phases should be clear.

If we apply ourselves in the middle of the ground we probably win by 4-6 goals, but anything could happen if we see a repeat of Sunday’s stoppage work.

FWIW despite Murphy having a great game we dodged a bullet without an anchor KPD. If Larkey’s putting 5 past us Walker’s good to put 6+ up so if Moore doesn’t make it to the line we need to fix that setup. As much as it kills me because he isn’t up to it Kelly might be the option…

Understand the viewpoint and was thinking about how to get AJ in.

I had similar thoughts about our fwd line, but i was thinking Checkers for AJ.
I haven't seen checkers get beaten like that in a long time.
Refused to get up the ground, refused to take front position and was absolutely smashed by McKay.
As much as we want to blame cox / cameron for no support, that's as poor a game from checkers as i can remember.
Mostly because he didn't use his strengths and played into McKay's strengths.

So i wonder if the recent injury has just gotten the better of him?
Hence he may benefit more from a week off?
It would put massive pressure on the rest of our fwd line to cover checkers, but surely we don't get hammered like that from stoppage (again ?!?!!!!)

 

[Chrispiesssss]

EFA.

0 support for Mihocek? Mate, Mihocek was MIA. He may as well have not played.

 

[unplugged]

Checkers carrying something? beside those thighs I mean. Looked a touch slow and reactive I thought. Hope Darcy is 100% before he’s brought back myself. Worries me.

Just the weight of expectation. Has been up against Collins and McKay the last 2 weeks. Pound-for-pound two of the best 1-on-1 defenders in the league.

I'd back him in to bounce back this week.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

EFA.

Also, if he played on CCJ & Corr, why are we attributing Goldstein’s goals to him? You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Scodog10]

0 support for Mihocek? Mate, Mihocek was MIA. He may as well have not played.

Do you mean the same Mihocek that had 3 SOG and was left one out against the much bigger Mackay all game? The thing about a forward that’s there primarily to compete in the air and bring the ball to ground is you need to actually compete and bring the ball to ground when you’re teammate is outmatched. At the end of the day if we want to take your attitude toward Mihocek fair enough, but credits in the bank Mihocek >>>>>>>>>>>>>> daylight >>>>> Cox. Now let’s address the scoreboard impact of Cox v Goldstein?

 

[Scodog10]

Also, if he played on CCJ & Corr, why are we attributing Goldstein’s goals to him? You can’t have it both ways.

You can because he was against Corr when he was forward and CCJ for the majority of his time in the ruck. If you watch the replay you’ll see Goldstein kicks 2.1 directly opposed to Cox (two from free kicks and 1 from easily ourmarking him).

If we were to play it out and suggest he played the majority v Goldstein we’d say he was poor considering Goldstein was rightly amongst North’s best and integral in their stoppage dominance… Can’t have it both ways I guess

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Do you mean the same Mihocek that had 3 SOG and was left one out against the much bigger Mackay all game? The thing about a forward that’s there primarily to compete in the air and bring the ball to ground. You need to actually compete and bring the ball to ground when you’re teammate is outmatched. At the end of the day if we want to take your attitude toward Mihocek fair enough, but credits in the bank Mihocek >>>>>>>>>>>>>> daylight >>>>> Cox. Now let’s address the scoreboard impact of Cox v Goldstein?

I’m not comparing Mihocek to Cox. I’m saying Mihocek didn’t do much and Cox played his role. We need to stop comparing Cox to McKay or Cameron. His role at the moment is similar to Jackson, Ladhams or Lobb. He’s a 2nd ruckman who happens to be the tallest bloke on the ground so he’s expected to dominate in the forward line.

If you think AJ would give us more than Cox, we are on different wave lengths.

 

[brockbruiser]

In: Moore
Out: Adams

Lipinski, Pendlebury, Daicos and Carmichael to all chip in with more minutes and cover Adams.

Macrae to come in as sub for T.Brown.

 

[gouki88]

i made the comment at the game that it smacked of arrogance TBH.

Starting bounce was Murphy on Goldy.....straight out of the middle to Goldy, contested mark.....sigh!
We looked very small behind the ball.

Either arrogance, or a complete lack of faith in Kelly to be worth the trade-off. I think it is the latter

 

[Chrispiesssss]

You can because he was against Corr when he was forward and CCJ for the majority of his time in the ruck. If you watch the replay you’ll see Goldstein kicks 2.1 directly opposed to Cox (two from free kicks and 1 from easily ourmarking him).

If we were to play it out and suggest he played the majority v Goldstein we’d say he was poor considering Goldstein was rightly amongst North’s best and integral in their stoppage dominance… Can’t have it both ways I guess

But you just said Cox versed CCJ and should have dominated? However, your own evidence shows he wasn’t against CCJ for the whole game.

If you actually look at the stats, they’re very similar for all 4 ruckman. Cox kicks his goals and he’s almost the best big man on the ground.

 

[Scodog10]

Understand the viewpoint and was thinking about how to get AJ in.

I had similar thoughts about our fwd line, but i was thinking Checkers for AJ.
I haven't seen checkers get beaten like that in a long time.
Refused to get up the ground, refused to take front position and was absolutely smashed by McKay.
As much as we want to blame cox / cameron for no support, that's as poor a game from checkers as i can remember.
Mostly because he didn't use his strengths and played into McKay's strengths.

So i wonder if the recent injury has just gotten the better of him?
Hence he may benefit more from a week off?
It would put massive pressure on the rest of our fwd line to cover checkers, but surely we don't get hammered like that from stoppage (again ?!?!!!!)

IMO, criticism of Mihocek is rough. He’s the hardest working and most brutalised player in our team who gets limited support aside from Cameron.

That said if I were to highlight what went wrong for him on Saturday I’d say it was our system breaking down at the contest. That resulted in them having the territory ascendancy, which left us needing to score more in transition, giving them more time to setup there defense and making it tougher on Mihocek to get in behind Mackay. The other point to note from my perspective was the number of times we had the ball in the hands of Adams and Crisp inside 70 of goal. Like the Brisbane game when those two get it on the burst in that range instead of Pendles abd JDG we struggle.

I can understand the workload queries and unplugged made a good point re the size of his last two opponents, but for me he’s feeling the loss of JDG more than anyone else because all of the bullocking work I50 is now left to him and the delivery has dropped off. I have every confidence he bounces back as early as this week against the smaller bodied Butts and Murray.

 

[Scodog10]

But you just said Cox versed CCJ and should have dominated? However, your own evidence shows he wasn’t against CCJ for the whole game.

If you actually look at the stats, they’re very similar for all 4 ruckman. Cox kicks his goals and he’s almost the best big man on the ground.

He didn’t kick his goals though (just like 7 of his 9 matches this year) and he was against CCJ the majority of the time through the ruck from my perspective. Him being isolated v Goldstein in those specific contests is not indicative of who they were up against the majority of the match. Stats on their own only tell part of the story as I was at pains to point out re his “contested mark” numbers.

You summed it up well when you suggested we’re on different wave lengths. My perspective is that like a good McReery game a poor Cox game is not one where it’s judged by the stats because of how he plays and his sheer physical size advantage (although he still needs to hit the scoreboard, IMO).

Edit: just to reiterate these are all soft views and I won’t be batting an eyelid when Cox is named v Adelaide. Unlike the decision to go in without a recognised KPD which gouki88 summed up well. If I had to guess it was a little of both and we felt we’d be able to stop their flow I50 better (59 I50’s is more than their previous two matches combined).

 

[gouki88]

But you just said Cox versed CCJ and should have dominated? However, your own evidence shows he wasn’t against CCJ for the whole game.

If you actually look at the stats, they’re very similar for all 4 ruckman. Cox kicks his goals and he’s almost the best big man on the ground.

View attachment 1444182

I feel like saying "if Cox does x he becomes the best big on the ground" is a bit silly. If Goldy kicked 4 whilst being the best ruck in the game that would have been an epic performance!

 

[BuildEmUp]

It was also his inability to get to the contest with Mackay and his dropped marks early that allowed North to remain in the contest outside of stoppage. His 2 goals for the year also have me wondering whether I’d make a better forward than him

I think it is fair to say when Grundy is back Cox may be relegated to magoos ..

 

[Bianconeri]

In: Moore, Macrae and Johnson
Out: Henry (rest), Adams and Cox (putrid)

I’d use WHE as a stationary target I50 in place of Henry and shift Noble up the field. The last change is a bit of fun because Cox offers nothing as a forward and is useless as a ruckman unless he wins the hitout. I doubt we go that way.

Sunday’s match has been a while coming with half a dozen guys going at about 50% capacity the last few weeks (Lipinski, Crisp, Pendles, Cox, Ginnivan and obviously Henry) plus Howe was away with the fairies for 3/4. For me it’s about application over the next couple because looking at our season we’re in the midst of the 4th of about 6 blocks (1st up to ANZAC day, 2nd the virus weeks and 3rd Fremantle up to the bye) the final 2 phases should be clear.

If we apply ourselves in the middle of the ground we probably win by 4-6 goals, but anything could happen if we see a repeat of Sunday’s stoppage work.

FWIW despite Murphy having a great game we dodged a bullet without an anchor KPD. If Larkey’s putting 5 past us Walker’s good to put 6+ up so if Moore doesn’t make it to the line we need to fix that setup. As much as it kills me because he isn’t up to it Kelly might be the option…

We’ve already tried a more competitive ground level option in place of Cox with Begg and we fished up our two worst performances of the year and I doubt it will work with Johnson. Any ground level advantage will be canceled by the opposition out marking us and the ball not hitting the deck.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

IMO, criticism of Mihocek is rough. He’s the hardest working and most brutalised player in our team who gets limited support aside from Cameron.

That said if I were to highlight what went wrong for him on Saturday I’d say it was our system breaking down at the contest. That resulted in them having the territory ascendancy, which left us needing to score more in transition, giving them more time to setup there defense and making it tougher on Mihocek to get in behind Mackay. The other point to note from my perspective was the number of times we had the ball in the hands of Adams and Crisp inside 70 of goal. Like the Brisbane game when those two get it on the burst in that range instead of Pendles abd JDG we struggle.

I can understand the workload queries and unplugged made a good point re the size of his last two opponents, but for me he’s feeling the loss of JDG more than anyone else because all of the bullocking work I50 is now left to him and the delivery has dropped off. I have every confidence he bounces back as early as this week against the smaller bodied Butts and Murray.

Yup agree the contest / system let him down to an extent. We all missed JDG in the middle. But thats to be expected as he's our best CBA clearance mid.
Although he is absolutely one way at the stoppage, he gets his hands on it more than anyone else and is always on the move.
We were very stationary all day.

Comments around him having a week off are centered around him being brutalized.
Lets see whether he bounces back.....hope he does, but we're asking a lot from him and i just get the feeling he's carrying something. His work rate was no where near what it normally is.
Which off transition i would expect him to get to more contests.
Looking ahead, i'd prefer him have this week off and not travel than be forced out of the melb / carl games.

 

[Go Pies!!!!!]

OUT Adams, Ruscoe,
IN Moore Macrae
Doesn't need to be to complicated, Saturday was a "we will turn up and win" type of performance which is a wake up call. If Moore isnt ready then we need to have Kelly or McMahon this week. Massive 3 weeks coming up.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Either arrogance, or a complete lack of faith in Kelly to be worth the trade-off. I think it is the latter

Maybe, but think its more around "backing in our system and structure" and the guys will 'get the job done' cliches.

Wouldn't have been asking Kelly to do anything except play the pure defensive role. Allowing Howe / Murphy to drift across.
To me, that would have been a better bet than asking Howe to to stand shoulder to shoulder with Larkey.

Either way, wasn't the best match committee move to leave us so exposed.

 

[J Albert]

This one feels tough given we might have all of Adams, Degoey, Grundy and Moore out. Although it is Adelaide, and Nick Dacos will be out there.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Or perhaps with Moore and Dean injured and McMahon terrible he's the only option we have?

Happy for you to think any of that.

 

[Mollythedolly]

It was also his inability to get to the contest with Mackay and his dropped marks early that allowed North to remain in the contest outside of stoppage. His 2 goals for the year also have me wondering whether I’d make a better forward than him

Wasn’t his goal to get away from a contest with McKay rather than into one? Isn’t it then incumbent upon the the I50 to find him rather than just bomb long to a crowd?

 

[Jasper84]

Give Maynard his chance in the middle. Unleash the bull.