Autopsy 2022 Rd 21 Last quarter surge masks woeful performance

[slashin_velvet]

Havent read the thread, but Fisher looked a hell of a lot like Mitch Robinson

5

Mitch Robinson

Age

35

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

15.8

4star

K

11.3

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.6

5star

with his no look slam it on the boot kicking. When we play a slow possession game, these kicks end up straight down the throat of the oppositions best marking defenders and we get murdered on the rebound.

Tackling and intensity without Hewett and Kennedy has left a lot to be desired. Injury has a bit to answer for this season, but the gameplan and calibre of disposal needs to lift if this squad plans on making any progress into/through September.

 

[BlueTang]

Dow is way too soft to make it anywhere.

How many full time inside midfielders are as frightened of contact and rattled as easily as Paddy?

He is far more likely to go the way as SPS and be as just average at another club.

They are saying he may win the VFL best and fairest, so is he really that soft? one contest should not define him. If Cripps pulled out of one, he’d be playing the next 2 games

Remember last year against Essendon, Dow was flying until he got smashed in the eye and he had to come off. Don’t get what so many have against him, one game where he barely got a go at centre bounces; why does then everyone call him a dud, it’s odd

 

[La Dispute]

They are saying he may win the VFL best and fairest, so is he really that soft? one contest should not define him. If Cripps pulled out of one, he’d be playing the next 2 games

Remember last year against Essendon, Dow was flying until he got smashed in the eye and he had to come off. Don’t get what so many have against him, one game where he barely got a go at centre bounces; why does then everyone call him a dud, it’s odd

He’s been soft for 5 years - that’s the issue.

 

[myblueroan]

Absolutely heartbreaking that Dow and SPS were complete wastes of picks 3 & 6 respectively. Dow has had 5 seasons to justify why he was selected at pick 3 and is still completely not up tp AFL level: he actually reminds me a lot of Nick Graham - killed it in the 2's but couldn't handle the elevation to the 1's. We could've taken any of Aaron Naughton, Noah Balta, Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan, Ed Richards, or Bayley Fritsch for where we took Dow in the 2017 draft. SOS didn't have many missteps while recruiting for us but Dow & Seton were 2 huge ones. And tbf I think the jury is still out on Lochie O - taken by SOS as another top 10 pick. Setterfield is a top 5 pick also that has failed to justify that early selection. I fully expect Dow & Setters to be moved on at season's end and probably for 3rd round picks at best.

We often think in this way about choices but what if it was the xlub development that made the difference for some players. If so it wouldn't matter who we picked. Most players need really good coaching to improve and a rare few like Walsh will get there no matter who is helping.
We've only just improved development now haven't we?
A lot of wasted time.

 

[Magruder]

He’s been soft for 5 years - that’s the issue.

FFS...

He's not soft. Just completely bereft of confidence at this level. Perhaps confused as to when he should go and when he needs to cover space.

You can argue that he's not versatile enough, hasn't developed, makes poor decisions, isn't making sufficient defensive effort, hesitates etc.

But he's not soft, very few AFL footballers are "soft".

 

[HarryFlashman]

They are saying he may win the VFL best and fairest, so is he really that soft? one contest should not define him. If Cripps pulled out of one, he’d be playing the next 2 games

Remember last year against Essendon, Dow was flying until he got smashed in the eye and he had to come off. Don’t get what so many have against him, one game where he barely got a go at centre bounces; why does then everyone call him a dud, it’s odd

No point trying to make a reasoned argument. He’s been breaking tackles & working hard in the 2s, people want to hold onto what they think they know. No one who has been watching him this year would be saying he’s soft at the contest.
Contest in question is 4 min left 2nd Q, it’s over his head and high left- it’s not a duck- commentators saying nothing but precise kicking- if he shirked it, it would have been mentioned

 

[Magruder]

No point trying to make a reasoned argument. He’s been breaking tackles & working hard in the 2s, people want to hold onto what they think they know. No one who has been watching him this year would be saying he’s soft at the contest.
Contest in question is 4 min left 2nd Q, it’s over his head and high left- it’s not a duck- commentators saying nothing but precise kicking- if he shirked it, it would have been mentioned

Remember it. Was disappointed he didn't get to it but it looked much worse than it was... he would have needed the grace and flexibility of a ballerina and somewhere close to a 12 foot wingspan.

I'm disappointed with his development but his issues are between the ears.

I know the modern game rarely has space for taggers, but it really wouldn't be a bad idea for Dow. Give him clarity of purpose, follow a Neale around all day with the intention of making life very difficult.

Strikes me as needing singularity of role. At the moment, when in the ones, it seems like he runs around trying to navigate some sort of decision tree/venn diagram.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Remember it. Was disappointed he didn't get to it but it looked much worse than it was... he would have needed the grace and flexibility of a ballerina and somewhere close to a 12 foot wingspan.

I'm disappointed with his development but his issues are between the ears.

I know the modern game rarely has space for taggers, but it really wouldn't be a bad idea for Dow. Give him clarity of purpose, follow a Neale around all day with the intention of making life very difficult.

Strikes me as needing singularity of role. At the moment, when in the ones, it seems like he runs around trying to navigate some sort of decision tree/venn diagram.

You could be right, in the 2s he just goes out and plays, looks scared to make mistakes and worries about being in the right place to much.
We have a pretty good track record of belting the footy sense out of our kids.
When we let them all off the chain and just play we seem to do pretty well

 

[HarryFlashman]

Here’s the clip- sorry my editing skills aren’t great & crap angles
It’s not great, but it’s not a shit yourself, high and left, he misses it as off balance, doesn’t look back and pull out- just can’t get there.

 

[FRUMPY]

Here’s the clip- sorry my editing skills aren’t great & crap angles
It’s not great, but it’s not a s**t yourself, high and left, he misses it as off balance, doesn’t look back and pull out- just can’t get there.

****, you can say that again

definitely doesnt duck as others have mentioned. It just looks weird he doesnt put his hands up but i presume he wouldnt have touched it and that why he didnt go for it.

 

[Coops93]

You could be right, in the 2s he just goes out and plays, looks scared to make mistakes and worries about being in the right place to much.
We have a pretty good track record of belting the footy sense out of our kids.
When we let them all off the chain and just play we seem to do pretty well

It could just be that his strengths are enough in div 2 to get by but not at AFL level.

His main attribute being his burst is good but beyond that initial burst he isn't overly fast, isn't that big/strong and doesn't really have an outside game. At VFL level that burst alone may be enough but at AFL level it doesn't trouble too many. That's my theory on him anyway obviously it could well be wrong.

 

[FRUMPY]

It could just be that his strengths are enough in div 2 to get by but not at AFL level.

His main attribute being his burst is good but beyond that initial burst he isn't overly fast, isn't that big/strong and doesn't really have an outside game. At VFL level that burst alone may be enough but at AFL level it doesn't trouble too many. That's my theory on him anyway obviously it could well be wrong.

it would have been interesting to see him in a 6 week block where he gets used to the speed of the game again and could get a bit of confidence behind him - make or break

one game here or there where you are feeling this game is make or break would be hard to put your best foot forward - couldnt play on instinct.

Either way you dice it up though, he doesnt help himself with his pretty basic skill errors (handball to cotts and kick to harry that went over his head by about 4 metres) and lack of intense running (half assed chase on opponents who have the ball)

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Had a good chat with Dad last night.

We are both resigned to the fact that finals will be a miracle and it is deadset deflating watching our season peter out into another year without being there in September. Alas it is not all doom and gloom a few thoughts from our conversation last night:

• We finally watched a Blues victory together live for the first time in five years
• Injuries have belted us this year since round 2, Voss has had to deal with (and done exceptionally well at) constant changes with key personnel out both before and during games and coaching accordingly, we haven't lost a game by over 40 points with these difficulties. Id like to see how other top 8 sides deal with the injuries we have had this year and still perform.
• The first half of the year and some of the quarters put together (4th qtr vs Tigers, 1st half vs Bulldogs, 2nd qtr vs Swans, 1st half vs Power) is the best I have seen since 2011. The talent and work ethic is there guys, I have full confidence that next year it will be sustained.
• Regarding the point above new coach will have a transition period, Collingwood have done exceptionally well (and I am very jealous) but they also have more wise heads on the field to guide the youngsters through difficult parts of the game than we do.

Yes it is sad, deflating, annoying to be where we are after being 8-2 however Dad and I firmly believe that we are heading in the right direction, we have the right cattle and a very good coaching and back end staff team. Next year we will be a force (surely we cant have the same injury curse as this year). I am at peace with this year, we have improved.

 

[AB_Blue]

People saying Gov had a good game…honestly I can’t see it.

He looked poor at the ground.
Have seen the highlights and his defensive efforts are of a bloke in self preservation mode.

The last 3 goals we conceded in the last he had a chance to take effect the contest (take a body and spill the footy or create a stoppage) but failed to do so

The boys haven’t been committed enough in the last few weeks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coops93]

it would have been interesting to see him in a 6 week block where he gets used to the speed of the game again and could get a bit of confidence behind him - make or break

one game here or there where you are feeling this game is make or break would be hard to put your best foot forward - couldnt play on instinct.

Either way you dice it up though, he doesnt help himself with his pretty basic skill errors (handball to cotts and kick to harry that went over his head by about 4 metres) and lack of intense running (half assed chase on opponents who have the ball)

I can see how that'd be a decent approach and I would like to see him at least have these last 2 games at it, but your last point is probably what stops him from getting that opportunity.

He shoots himself in the foot with that, particularly the defensive aspects. You could forgive the skill errors/odd fumble and say he's getting used to the speed of the game but half arsed defensive chases aren't an issue of adjusting to AFL, it's an intent issue.

 

[HarryFlashman]

*, you can say that again

definitely doesnt duck as others have mentioned. It just looks weird he doesnt put his hands up but i presume he wouldnt have touched it and that why he didnt go for it.

You obvious have not been told where to go this morning- so….
Had to go to kayo, record on screen then turn into a gif - its fine when u click on it- everyone’s a critic
Worth noting Hipwood took a big contested mark 2 min before that and was just prowling around.

 

[Rustica]

That 2017 top end was pretty hard to pick. Rayner was an upside selection, Brayshaw could have easily just been a good accumulator (and tbh I think he’s a little overrated currently), Dow has been terrible, LDU took a while to come on, Cerra is passable but a bit vanilla and Stephenson was pretty flash-in-the pan and doesn’t look like he could give two shits.

Not a good pool to have a couple of Top 10 picks which we’ve probably butchered.

Setterfield was all hype as a junior - compared to Bontempelli when he was emerging as a star - and probably got too many plaudits despite a moderate week-to-week statline.

Needless to say if any of those guys have’ve come on as mids or showed the capacity to develop into at least decent flankers we’d be in a much better position and wouldn’t have needed to recruit Hewett and Cerra.

So many good players right now came late round 1 or even after that.

If I were to redraft that list

1. Brayshaw (Originally Pick 2)
2. Zach Bailey (Originally Pick 15)
3. Naughton (Originally Pick 9)
4. Noah Balta (Originally Pick 24)
5. Bailey Fritsch (Originally Pick 32)
6. Adam Cerra (Originally Pick 5)
7. Harrison Petty (Originally Pick 37)
8. Cam Rayner (Originally Pick 1)
9. Tim Kelly (Originally Pick 24)
10. Sam Taylor (Originally Pick 28)

Lions and Melbourne won that draft year big time

Lions got (Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich in the top 20)
Dees got (Spargo, Fritsch, Petty between pick 28-40)

Saints busted with Clark and especially Coffield at 7 and 8.

Us with Dow and O’Brien

 

[bigblueboy]

So many good players right now came late round 1 or even after that.

If I were to redraft that list

1. Brayshaw (Originally Pick 2)
2. Zach Bailey (Originally Pick 15)
3. Naughton (Originally Pick 9)
4. Noah Balta (Originally Pick 24)
5. Bailey Fritsch (Originally Pick 32)
6. Adam Cerra (Originally Pick 5)
7. Harrison Petty (Originally Pick 37)
8. Cam Rayner (Originally Pick 1)
9. Tim Kelly (Originally Pick 24)
10. Sam Taylor (Originally Pick 28)

Lions and Melbourne won that draft year big time

Lions got (Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich in the top 20)
Dees got (Spargo, Fritsch, Petty between pick 28-40)

Saints busted with Clark and especially Coffield at 7 and 8.

Us with Dow and O’Brien

1. Brayshaw (Originally Pick 2)
2. Naughton (Originally Pick 9)
3. Sam Taylor (Originally Pick 28)
4. Bailey Fritsch (Originally Pick 32)
5. Zach Bailey (Originally Pick 15)
6. Adam Cerra (Originally Pick 5)
7. Harrison Petty (Originally Pick 37)
8. Noah Balta (Originally Pick 24)
9. Cam Rayner (Originally Pick 1)
10. Tim Kelly (Originally Pick 24)

 

[Coops93]

Drafts would be so easy if only we could know who was going to be good in the future.

Why have they never thought of that?

 

[BringFevBack2021]

They are saying he may win the VFL best and fairest, so is he really that soft? one contest should not define him. If Cripps pulled out of one, he’d be playing the next 2 games

Remember last year against Essendon, Dow was flying until he got smashed in the eye and he had to come off. Don’t get what so many have against him, one game where he barely got a go at centre bounces; why does then everyone call him a dud, it’s odd

He’s been soft for 5 years - that’s the issue.

The contest he 'squibbed' the ball flew about 1.5 meters above his head, he wasn't going to get it and 'squibbing' at the point he had committed to attempting to gather the ball wasn't going to prevent him getting harmed. He could've still got smashed.

Dow was huge at the center bounce, needs to attend EVERY center bounce with Cripps out next week.

He's not soft, he's a tall mid at 187cm (Clarry's height) and his strength is his ground ball game. If he plays more TOG and hits every center bounce he will have plenty of center clearances.

 

[FRUMPY]

1. Brayshaw (Originally Pick 2)
2. Naughton (Originally Pick 9)
3. Sam Taylor (Originally Pick 28)
4. Bailey Fritsch (Originally Pick 32)
5. Zach Bailey (Originally Pick 15)
6. Adam Cerra (Originally Pick 5)
7. Harrison Petty (Originally Pick 37)
8. Noah Balta (Originally Pick 24)
9. Cam Rayner (Originally Pick 1)
10. Tim Kelly (Originally Pick 24)

Now put them in Carlton's development program at age 18....

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Coona Blues]

also while I’m venting, the amount of praise we got about our stoppage work at the start of the season…… we have totally been worked out. It doesn’t matter if it’s Baker or Clarke or whoever. If you’re slow and not great runners you will struggle

Firmly believe it is not so much worked out, as worn out. We were labelled brutal, and that we were. Just as it is irrepressible, it is unsustainable. We cannot use five blokes as battering rams for a full season. I really hope Vossy is up to creating layers on top.

We have arguably our best two extractors with chronic back conditions, if anyone thinks we are winning flags based on this alone, they are kidding themselves.

 

[Coops93]

Firmly believe it is not so much worked out, as worn out. We were labelled brutal, and that we were. Just as it is irrepressible, it is unsustainable. We cannot use five blokes as battering rams for a full season. I really hope Vossy is up to creating layers on top.

We have arguably our best two extractors with chronic back conditions, if anyone thinks we are winning flags based on this alone, they are kidding themselves.

I think David King called this very early, within the first 5 rounds even.

Said they were playing brutal and hard footy that was dominant, but likely to fade late in the season as it isn't sustainable. But moreover what was important was it was about setting a standard and a base for what they want to base the game around. Even if we faded out it doesn't matter as it's about building the foundation and then adding layers onto it next year.

This year is all about setting standards and showing who we want to be, which we have done, now this off-season hopefully there's a few wrinkles added and next year we'll see some expansion.

The first part has been shown to be correct, I just hope the second part is as well.

 

[Bletch]

Firmly believe it is not so much worked out, as worn out. We were labelled brutal, and that we were. Just as it is irrepressible, it is unsustainable. We cannot use five blokes as battering rams for a full season. I really hope Vossy is up to creating layers on top.

We have arguably our best two extractors with chronic back conditions, if anyone thinks we are winning flags based on this alone, they are kidding themselves.

Exactly.

And this gets compounded by having around a third of the list out injured for over half the season. No opportunity to give the 'worn out' guys a break. Give us Brisbane, Sydney or Richmond's injury list for the year, and that style can be sustained - with a reliance on the group in the 23-30 range on the list to come in regularly for relief.

Whether it's by better conditioning or by delisting perennially injured players, we must build a more durable list if we are to play this style of footy and succeed.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Firmly believe it is not so much worked out, as worn out. We were labelled brutal, and that we were. Just as it is irrepressible, it is unsustainable. We cannot use five blokes as battering rams for a full season. I really hope Vossy is up to creating layers on top.

We have arguably our best two extractors with chronic back conditions, if anyone thinks we are winning flags based on this alone, they are kidding themselves.

At the start of the season we were able to link up from handballs and actually run the ball out of stoppages. That’s completely gone. Even when we are winning stoppages now we still don’t have the ability to clear the ball and run it forward. Teams have worked that out imo.

Exactly.

And this gets compounded by having around a third of the list out injured for over half the season. No opportunity to give the 'worn out' guys a break. Give us Brisbane, Sydney or Richmond's injury list for the year, and that style can be sustained - with a reliance on the group in the 23-30 range on the list to come in regularly for relief.

Whether it's by better conditioning or by delisting perennially injured players, we must build a more durable list if we are to play this style of footy and succeed.

Teague hard done by also then?