List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition

[Keys]

Contract status of all players now fully updated

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[DanWCE]

The problem is that de Goey is likely to be at a mates funeral that he was holidaying with.

I have no problems placing behaviour requirements in his contract. The guy is a proven loose cannon - good footballer but a liability.

By all means add something for being shopped around. The Pies have proven to be less than loyal so add in a loyalty clause.

I don't think he's pushing back on the inclusion of clauses, more the ambiguity around said clauses.

They're offering him dickhead free money, but he's a dickhead. So there needs to be dickhead clauses. Otherwise he can get signed up to dickhead money, with no dickhead clauses. His choice. But as I read it the clauses are probably designed to be able to cut him loose should they decide he has underperformed on field after two years and they don't want to pay him for another three so let's make up a behavioral excuse and flog him. Which I can see why Pies would try it on, his form and fitness is up and down.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

hey briztoon - how are Brisbane able to think about bringing in Gunston (UFA) which will effectively wipe out a lot of any McStay compo?

Your club is trying to get Dunkley in the door and both Ashcroft and Fletcher as F/S. A big ask this year.

Without the McStay compo, you only have 2,086 points in 2022 and roughly 1,983 in 2023. I had thought that the Lions would get a real advantage in selling off pick 15 at a premium, but that pick will need to be the centrepiece of the Dunkley deal so the 500 point premium vanishes.

Ashcroft and Fletcher are likely to cost around 3,100 points (already discounted 20%) meaning roughly 1,050 points to get Dunkley and that is about pick 16. That would be your picks of value for the next 2 drafts. I am assuming you finish the same place in 2023

2022

2023



How do you see Lions getting Gunston, Ashcroft and Fletcher?

 

[WCE_phil]

hey briztoon - how are Brisbane able to think about bringing in Gunston (UFA) which will effectively wipe out a lot of any McStay compo?

Your club is trying to get Dunkley in the door and both Ashcroft and Fletcher as F/S. A big ask this year.

Without the McStay compo, you only have 2,086 points in 2022 and roughly 1,983 in 2023. I had thought that the Lions would get a real advantage in selling off pick 15 at a premium, but that pick will need to be the centrepiece of the Dunkley deal so the 500 point premium vanishes.

Ashcroft and Fletcher are likely to cost around 3,100 points (already discounted 20%) meaning roughly 1,050 points to get Dunkley and that is about pick 16. That would be your picks of value for the next 2 drafts. I am assuming you finish the same place in 2023

2022
View attachment 1519439
2023

View attachment 1519440

How do you see Lions getting Gunston, Ashcroft and Fletcher?

Just in regards to port trading Ah Chee to us he wasn't a required player there.

He wanted to come home and his manager (I know his manager at the time) was a ****ing idiot suggesting the 1 year original deal with the thought that if he did well he would be able to negotiate for more. The eagles were prepared to put a low paying 3 year contract on the table but Brendan and his manager thought after 1 good year they could negotiate with west coast for far more. A very silly turn of events for Ah Chee and his manager. His manager was only a low level guy who's primary job was selling house and land for BGC but was managing a few WA players around that age group as he had played WAFL with some of them and they knew how much money he was making in house and land and his other investments. So it was a mates helping mates situation which ended up ****ing over more than Ah Chee.

Now to just on the above Levi Ashcroft is looking just as good as hit brother at the same age so will likely wipe out their 2024 draft hand as well.

 

[briztoon]

If Pies lose Grundy , Henry & DeGoey for Mcstay ,Hill & T Mitchell .... i can see them going backwards lol That is a big downgrade.

Grundy didn't play this year.

Henry played, what 8 games?

Losing those two aren't going to hurt them.

De Goey, during the finals, that's a big loss.

Don't know if you've watched McStay, but he's most effective when he gets to play second ruck. He’s not exactly what they need, but he’s the best player available on the market this year that fits their need.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Why not work something with Port - Rioli and pick 20 for pick 9. That values Rioli as pick 34 which is unders but I like pick 9.


Pick 9 would get us one of Phillipou, MacKenzie, Clark or Hollands.

BOND 007 - any possibility?

 

[Farang83150]

I'd be wary being JDG too. Pies have already shown a contract means nothing. Treloar shopped, Grundy being shopped. No surprise they're trying to sign their loose cannon to an all encompassing deal that allows them to flick him and his salary after two seasons if he so much as farts at a funeral.

 

[briztoon]

hey briztoon - how are Brisbane able to think about bringing in Gunston (UFA) which will effectively wipe out a lot of any McStay compo?

Your club is trying to get Dunkley in the door and both Ashcroft and Fletcher as F/S. A big ask this year.

Without the McStay compo, you only have 2,086 points in 2022 and roughly 1,983 in 2023. I had thought that the Lions would get a real advantage in selling off pick 15 at a premium, but that pick will need to be the centrepiece of the Dunkley deal so the 500 point premium vanishes.

Ashcroft and Fletcher are likely to cost around 3,100 points (already discounted 20%) meaning roughly 1,050 points to get Dunkley and that is about pick 16. That would be your picks of value for the next 2 drafts. I am assuming you finish the same place in 2023

2022
View attachment 1519439
2023

View attachment 1519440

How do you see Lions getting Gunston, Ashcroft and Fletcher?

Got me beat at this stage.

There’s talk that we might be letting Gardiner explore free agency, and we might get band 4 (if we’re lucky) compensation for him. We can then trade that 3rd round pick we hold for Gunston.

But it’s going to leave us really shallow for KPD depth (i.e none).

 

[Schtinker]

Got me beat at this stage.

There’s talk that we might be letting Gardiner explore free agency, and we might get band 4 (if we’re lucky) compensation for him. We can then trade that 3rd round pick we hold for Gunston.

But it’s going to leave us really shallow for KPD depth (i.e none).

So pick 38 for Robertson will come in handy.

 

[briztoon]

Now to just on the above Levi Ashcroft is looking just as good as hit brother at the same age so will likely wipe out their 2024 draft hand as well.

And I’ll keep repeating it, we’re supposed to have two very decent academy crops in 2024 and 2025. That’s coming from the QAFL guys who post in our academy thread, and most of them aren’t Lions supporters.

 

[briztoon]

Why not work something with Port - Rioli and pick 20 for pick 9. That values Rioli as pick 34 which is unders but I like pick 9.


Pick 9 would get us one of Phillipou, MacKenzie, Clark or Hollands.

BOND 007 - any possibility?
View attachment 1519460

Port aren’t giving up pick 9 in a Rioli trade, unless your pick 2 is going back to them.

Pick 2 and Rioli for pick 9 and Georgiades.

 

[WCErevival]

Apart from the Ebert deal which hurt, when have Port been flogs at the trade table?

We seemed to do remarkably well last year gaining a second for sliding back 2 spots. We gave back a 4th to get Clark which was noise.

I am sensing they have been pretty decent in the last 5 years.

And the Ebert trade has been the most overblown thing ever. We traded an average midfielder for a mid 20s pick. Hardly a disaster.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

And the Ebert trade has been the most overblown thing ever. We traded an average midfielder for a mid 20s pick. Hardly a disaster.

In 2011, the trade was Ebert and 45 for Pick 28 and 49 which effectively valued him at pick 34.

He played 76 games which is pretty high for a player in his first 4 years. I think the sticking point was that he was drafted with pick 13 so pick 28 or 34 felt like robbery.

The other point - the 2011 was heavily compromised with GWS having access to 12 early 17 year old which got them Bugg, Cameron, Darley, Golds, Growden, Hombsch, Shiel, Treloar, Ugle and Wilson. They also had handful zone selections.

So likely half the top 10 were already gone pre-draft. I recall 2011 and feeling flat about the compensation.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

In 2011, the trade was Ebert and 45 for Pick 28 and 49 which effectively valued him at pick 34.

He played 76 games which is pretty high for a player in his first 4 years. I think the sticking point was that he was drafted with pick 13 so pick 28 or 34 felt like robbery.

The other point - the 2011 was heavily compromised with GWS having access to 12 early 17 year old which got them Bugg, Cameron, Darley, Golds, Growden, Hombsch, Shiel, Treloar, Ugle and Wilson. They also had handful zone selections.

So likely half the top 10 were already gone pre-draft. I recall 2011 and feeling flat about the compensation.

If we had drafted Elliot Yeo (Pick 30), Brad Hill (33) or reached for Lachie Neale (58) instead of opting for Big Boy Fraser McInnes with that Pick 28, we'd be laughing.

Imagine Yeo (23) + Neale (28) instead of Newman + McInnes?

Oh well.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Port aren’t giving up pick 9 in a Rioli trade, unless your pick 2 is going back to them.

Pick 2 and Rioli for pick 9 and Georgiades.

I have no interest in Georgiades - good player but not a need as of now.

Port have 8, 52, 56 and the Amon compo pick. Not a load of picks to get role players. The prospects at 8/9 are not going to help them go the next step now.

So what about making it Rioli/26/38 for 8? That values Rioli as pick 45 (way unders) and gives them a pick for Graham (pick 38 might do it) and they get a D'Aloia or Barnett at 26?

So pick 8 gives them Rioli, Graham and Barnett. The first 2 will make them a better list immediately.

 

[THE A5]

Just in regards to port trading Ah Chee to us he wasn't a required player there.

He wanted to come home and his manager (I know his manager at the time) was a ******* idiot suggesting the 1 year original deal with the thought that if he did well he would be able to negotiate for more. The eagles were prepared to put a low paying 3 year contract on the table but Brendan and his manager thought after 1 good year they could negotiate with west coast for far more. A very silly turn of events for Ah Chee and his manager. His manager was only a low level guy who's primary job was selling house and land for BGC but was managing a few WA players around that age group as he had played WAFL with some of them and they knew how much money he was making in house and land and his other investments. So it was a mates helping mates situation which ended up ******* over more than Ah Chee.

Now to just on the above Levi Ashcroft is looking just as good as hit brother at the same age so will likely wipe out their 2024 draft hand as well.

this explains alot then

 

[TerryFilk]

Can not believe we are not all over Bowes and pick 7, haven’t even seen us linked

 

[Keys]

Can not believe we are not all over Bowes and pick 7, haven’t even seen us linked

No club outside Victoria has been linked

Just why that is I don’t know but I suspect it has something to do with most trade talk being generated from Victorian based media

 

[ArdentEagle]

Can not believe we are not all over Bowes and pick 7, haven’t even seen us linked

That's usually a good sign for us.
Probably means we're actually balls deep

 

[TerryFilk]

No club outside Victoria has been linked

Just why that is I don’t know but I suspect it has something to do with most trade talk being generated from Victorian based media

Hopefully that’s the case, I won’t be angry if we don’t do the deal as I know Bowes has to actually want to come here, but I’d be angry if we didn’t at least ask the question and pursue it aggressively

I think Rhino said the other day the WA clubs weren’t interested though

 

[WCErevival]

In 2011, the trade was Ebert and 45 for Pick 28 and 49 which effectively valued him at pick 34.

He played 76 games which is pretty high for a player in his first 4 years. I think the sticking point was that he was drafted with pick 13 so pick 28 or 34 felt like robbery.

The other point - the 2011 was heavily compromised with GWS having access to 12 early 17 year old which got them Bugg, Cameron, Darley, Golds, Growden, Hombsch, Shiel, Treloar, Ugle and Wilson. They also had handful zone selections.

So likely half the top 10 were already gone pre-draft. I recall 2011 and feeling flat about the compensation.

Sure at the time people were a little bummed but in hindsight its not like we lost another Judd. It would be like us losing Duggan now. Ok player but not a big deal and a second rounder would probably be about right

 

[southcoast]

There’s no chance where getting Bowes, he’s going to a Victorian club

We’re waiting for a response to an email we sent?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Obeanie1]

Even if these figures are accurate (and apparently he's on $800k), there is no point for Bowes to do this. He's giving up $1.2m to get $1.6m with two extra years (works out at $200k extra per year for the additional two years). I think he'd back himself in to make a fair bit more than $200k a year in two years time, he's actually a good player.

Not withstanding that GCS also want to move picks into next year, not this year.

Numbers wrong way round but you are correct. He wont give up 2 x $825k for 4 x $400k.

4 x $600k may get his attention as it is more money and longer security.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

They were also pretty chill with trading Ah Chee to us from memory?

Yeah because we gave them something when he was worth nothing

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Numbers wrong way round but you are correct. He wont give up 2 x $825k for 4 x $400k.

4 x $600k may get his attention as it is more money and longer security.

I see Bowes as a $400k prospect. That means we would be saying the cost of pick 7 is 2 x $425,000 or $850,000.

How can we work it?

Are we confident he is a 4 year player? If yes at $400k pa, then we renegotiate to $612,500 for 4 years. Bowes gets $2.45 mln over 4 years. You might be able to get it down to $600k due to giving more certainty

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Why not work something with Port - Rioli and pick 20 for pick 9. That values Rioli as pick 34 which is unders but I like pick 9.


Pick 9 would get us one of Phillipou, MacKenzie, Clark or Hollands.

BOND 007 - any possibility?
View attachment 1519460

That would be awesome but I highly doubt port do that. They missed out on dunkley so phillipou at 9 would be a decent consultation prize