List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R) Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Current contract status (Updated 18/10/24) : Total 39 Players -...

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

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[WCE_phil]

Scott Jones athleticism is the problem, doubt he ever gets picked up. TBH I think when Broadbents development stalled Jones name would have been one that sprang to a lot of recruiters minds. Broadbent is a better kick and better around the ground at the same age but similar athletic profile.

I think we finish 17th and have Duursma at pick 2 atm. Mainly on midfield projection but whilst I see a slightly lower ceiling than Moir, I see more a midfield progression whilst having an outstanding athletic profile and is a proven goal kicker with great skills.

Just remember talent only gets you so far. Just look at Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

. I probably should have had him in my list of players that were better at 16/17 than Harley Reid. Unbelievable talent that just never progressed to true midfield at AFL level and is just an average to good player. I would have mentioned Harley Bennell

17

Harley Bennell

Age

32

Ht

185cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

11.9

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.7

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.3

1star

CL

1.0

3star

D

17.6

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.8

4star

as a similar scenario but don't think that's fair as discounting the off field drama his body just constantly let him down.

Speaking of injury and how it destroyed top draft picks careers and tarnished their legacy. Luke Ball amongst others. Looked every bit a better player than hodge and a genuine challenger to Judd as a true competition leading inside mid as a junior Before OP killed his athleticism and just ended up an average player. Mind you even though it was done in dodgy fashion i'm sure that 2010 premiership medallion against the saints feels pretty good after they royally ****ed up his OP and injury rehab multiple times.

 

[briztoon]

And he's not...
View attachment 1657616

He’s had a rough start to the season.

I don’t know what you want me to say. He’s said it himself (I can link the interview if people won’t get upset).

 

[dinnaz]

And he's not...
View attachment 1657616

'Clug burns so many shots on goal, I thought everyone knew that

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Scott Jones athleticism is the problem, doubt he ever gets picked up. TBH I think when Broadbents development stalled Jones name would have been one that sprang to a lot of recruiters minds. Broadbent is a better kick and better around the ground at the same age but similar athletic profile.

I think we finish 17th and have Duursma at pick 2 atm. Mainly on midfield projection but whilst I see a slightly lower ceiling than Moir, I see more a midfield progression whilst having an outstanding athletic profile and is a proven goal kicker with great skills.

Just remember talent only gets you so far. Just look at Jack Martin. I probably should have had him in my list of players that were better at 16/17 than Harley Reid. Unbelievable talent that just never progressed to true midfield at AFL level and is just an average to good player. I would have mentioned Harley Bennell as a similar scenario but don't think that's fair as discounting the off field drama his body just constantly let him down.

Speaking of injury and how it destroyed top draft picks careers and tarnished their legacy. Luke Ball amongst others. Looked every bit a better player than hodge and a genuine challenger to Judd as a true competition leading inside mid as a junior Before OP killed his athleticism and just ended up an average player. Mind you even though it was done in dodgy fashion i'm sure that 2010 premiership medallion against the saints feels pretty good after they royally ****ed up his OP and injury rehab multiple times.

I would be very happy with Duursma at 2 if we finish 17th. He looks absolute quality and the family have a proven track record of managing interstate relocation.

Like you, I see us at the bottom and only just above the Hawks. So not getting Harley Reid but still getting a very classy player.

What will be interesting is what happens with the Suns. At the moment, they sit in second bottom place and I can see them moving slightly higher but still bottom 4 (more based on a club steeped in annual disappointment that quality on their list).

That would mean they could pick up a top 4 draft prospect as well as their 3 academy prospects of Walters, Read and Rogers. The speculation for the Suns "pick for a points premium" might not be on offer. In fact, what about if the Suns were to just go into deficit in 2024? As it stands, they have 2,712 points in addition to their first pick. I cannot see us or another club bidding on Jed Walters at pick 2 or 3 and hence the Suns being a definite sellers is no longer a definite! 2,712 points matches a load of bids for their home grown choices. They are holding onto 8 points bearing picks and I doubt that they will have than many list spots available so further complications.

Apart from all their own picks, they hold 3 Crows, and a Pies and Swans pick. I cannot see those three nosediving too far from their current place.

 

[briztoon]

'Clug burns so many shots on goal, I thought everyone knew that

Don’t believe I’ve seen any other player so gun shy to have a kick at goal.

Even in praccy matches, his first instinct is to look for another player to pass/kick the ball to.

We were at one praccy game, yelling for him to shoot as he was wide open, 40 out on a 45 degree angle. Friggen did a 360 looking for a team mate to pass to.

 

[briztoon]

I would be very happy with Duursma at 2 if we finish 17th. He looks absolute quality and the family have a proven track record of managing interstate relocation.

Like you, I see us at the bottom and only just above the Hawks. So not getting Harley Reid but still getting a very classy player.

What will be interesting is what happens with the Suns. At the moment, they sit in second bottom place and I can see them moving slightly higher but still bottom 4 (more based on a club steeped in annual disappointment that quality on their list).

That would mean they could pick up a top 4 draft prospect as well as their 3 academy prospects of Walters, Read and Rogers. The speculation for the Suns "pick for a points premium" might not be on offer. In fact, what about if the Suns were to just go into deficit in 2024? As it stands, they have 2,712 points in addition to their first pick. I cannot see us or another club bidding on Jed Walters at pick 2 or 3 and hence the Suns being a definite sellers is no longer a definite! 2,712 points matches a load of bids for their home grown choices. They are holding onto 8 points bearing picks and I doubt that they will have than many list spots available so further complications.

Apart from all their own picks, they hold 3 Crows, and a Pies and Swans pick. I cannot see those three nosediving too far from their current place.

View attachment 1657689

Can still see the Suns trading their pick 20 on draft night for a points upgrade. Sydney with 32, 38 and 51 would be the obvious choice looking at that current board.

 

[THE A5]

Not in the best but not in the worst

Thats going straight into my tinder bio

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Can still see the Suns trading their pick 20 on draft night for a points upgrade. Sydney with 32, 38 and 51 would be the obvious choice looking at that current board.

I am sure they will sell off their second rounders. Main point of my post was that we had all assumed the Suns would sell off their R1 but it may not happen given they are sitting at a pick before the bid of Walters in likely.

Yes their R2 pick and Crows R2 picks are likely to be sold at a premium.

Will the Suns be still in the business of pushing their picks into the future year? The AFL should have intervened years ago and forced them to use or lose picks. It started with selling their picks for 18 years old in favour of the mini draft 17 year olds. O'Meara and Martin - that worked out well for them.

 

[briztoon]

I am sure they will sell off their second rounders. Main point of my post was that we had all assumed the Suns would sell off their R1 but it may not happen given they are sitting at a pick before the bid of Walters in likely.

Yes their R2 pick and Crows R2 picks are likely to be sold at a premium.

Will the Suns be still in the business of pushing their picks into the future year? The AFL should have intervened years ago and forced them to use or lose picks. It started with selling their picks for 18 years old in favour of the mini draft 17 year olds. O'Meara and Martin - that worked out well for them.

Nah, that’s not fair on the Suns. Trading a couple of picks during their start up years was fair enough.

That it didn’t work out for the Suns, because the players requested to be traded isn’t on the list management people. That’s on the AFL, coaches and football department for not setting them up properly to start with, which impacted on their ability to build a proper club culture.

I would agree the AFL should have put limited restrictions on trading their PP’s during their bailout package in 2019.

I have no issue with them pushing picks in to the future now. That’s just smart list management in their situation.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Nah, that’s not fair on the Suns. Trading a couple of picks during their start up years was fair enough.

That it didn’t work out for the Suns, because the players requested to be traded isn’t on the list management people. That’s on the AFL, coaches and football department for not setting them up properly to start with, which impacted on their ability to build a proper club culture.

I would agree the AFL should have put limited restrictions on trading their PP’s during their bailout package in 2019.

I have no issue with them pushing picks in to the future now. That’s just smart list management in their situation.

So you think good list management is to be holding a bunch of picks for 18 year olds and instead of picking 18 year olds (or better still trading for established players), they went and got two 17 years olds!!!

They should have been banned from buying the GWS mini draft picks as I believe this was poor governance by the AFL in letting them get even younger. The Suns got sucked into thinking most of their team would be the best and brightest youngsters and failed to get the older more established B and C graders into their team.

Since we have had the ability to trade for future picks, the Suns have been constantly in credit for the following year.

 

[Biggie]

Hey briz what's up with mccluggage this year he is stinking up my supercoach team big time ?

I ****ed him off for LDU before his price plummeted

 

[Avalor]

Just watched the latest edition of Gettables - i think Moir has to be our man. He has family in Perth, and supports the Eagles. He is so well spoken and not a big-headed twat. There would be no flight risk.
Come on down Moir.

 

[WCE_phil]

Just watched the latest edition of Gettables - i think Moir has to be our man. He has family in Perth, and supports the Eagles. He is so well spoken and not a big-headed twat. There would be no flight risk.
Come on down Moir.

Highest talent in the pool imo but needs to show more and more consistency. IMO only 2 of the top 5 (open) talents in last years draft got picked up in the top 5 (open) picks.

Those being Sheezel and Wardlaw. IMO the highest level talent (also the biggest **** tease for his talent) last year was Isaac Keeler. But putting all that talent together into a complete player is like getting someone with advanced stage parkinson's to complete a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle.

 

[WCE_phil]

OH FFS BIGFOOTY. Now you've ruined the word utensil for me.

 

[bzparkes]

OH FFS BIGFOOTY. Now you've ruined the word utensil for me.

Missed it but presuming it changed to 'uterus'.

 

[bzparkes]

Just watched the latest edition of Gettables - i think Moir has to be our man. He has family in Perth, and supports the Eagles. He is so well spoken and not a big-headed twat. There would be no flight risk.
Come on down Moir.

Excellent, the last high draft pick who supported the Eagles went extremely well for us.

 

[bzparkes]

Genuinely dual-sided, Eagles fan and sees himself as the BBIMWBLF, I'm sold!

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Just watched the latest edition of Gettables - i think Moir has to be our man. He has family in Perth, and supports the Eagles. He is so well spoken and not a big-headed twat. There would be no flight risk.
Come on down Moir.

Moir has sublime skills. As Phil commented, he probably has the highest ceiling in this year's cohort.

Not sure he is going to make it as a big bodied midfielder. He will probably have stints in the midfield but I see him as a class forward.

In terms of supporting a club - I like his judgement to side with his mum and and shun the toxic Port Adelaide. It also shows some strength in taking a minority view and supporting a club that is interstate.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Connor McDonald was really good on the weekend on ball and forward. Looks pretty agile for his size.

James Spadanuda had a good game as a midfielder and Aiden O'Driscoll as a winger.

 

[Rowan18]

Moir has sublime skills. As Phil commented, he probably has the highest ceiling in this year's cohort.

Not sure he is going to make it as a big bodied midfielder. He will probably have stints in the midfield but I see him as a class forward.

In terms of supporting a club - I like his judgement to side with his mum and and shun the toxic Port Adelaide. It also shows some strength in taking a minority view and supporting a club that is interstate.

I don't love the idea of using a top 4 pick on a fwd/mid, when we have clear needs of another KPF or top line mid.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

So I have the following as being out of contract

Senior List
Waterman
SPS
Shuey
Cripps
McGovern
Petruccelle
Witherden
O'Neill
Hurn
Foley
BWilliams
JWilliams

Shuey and Hurn are looking as retiring
Gov and Cripps are reportedly about to re-sign
I have probably lost patience with Petruccelle thinking a trade might be on the cards. Any contract to stay is going to be quite modest based on output.
That will mean Foley, Witherden, Clark and XON battle it out to see who stays
Too early to tell with Jack Williams

It may well be that the club comes to an agreement with NicNat if his Achilles does not come good.

With Culley coming on the senior list, we will need to make at least 6 or 7 cuts to the senior list. That well might mean some of the out of contract seniors get to be delisted with a plan to pick them up after draft and trade as rookies. We do have 6 points bearing picks as it stands.

Rookie List
Winder
Trew
West
Culley
I expect all 4 rookies to be off the list. Culley upgraded and Winder, Trew and West likely delisted and not re-rookies.

Red = out of contract in 2023

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I don't love the idea of using a top 4 pick on a fwd/mid, when we have clear needs of another KPF or top line mid.

I am sensing there will be a KPF available at one of our second round picks and the mids available in the 20's should also be strong. The 2023 draft has something for most positions in the first 2 rounds.

We should put Cripps on the LTI list and take at lease one very low pick in the mid season draft. Is that a McDonald or a Gilbert or a Ryan?

There is something about Jack Williams that makes me think we haven't seen the best of him yet. Ease him into the season when he recovers from his spleen op and with a better WAFL team around him, we might just get more inside 50's.

Also - is Barnett a massive KPF who can pinch hit in the ruck or a genuine 1st ruck? I saw enough of Barnett in 2022 to think he can be the 203 cm KPF that towers in the forward line and leave Oscar more as the leading up forward.

I have not seen enough positive evidence that BWilliams or Jamieson will only be a backup ruck and neither look like doing much damage in the forward line.

 

[WCE_phil]

I am sensing there will be a KPF available at one of our second round picks and the mids available in the 20's should also be strong. The 2023 draft has something for most positions in the first 2 rounds.

We should put Cripps on the LTI list and take at lease one very low pick in the mid season draft. Is that a McDonald or a Gilbert or a Ryan?

There is something about Jack Williams that makes me think we haven't seen the best of him yet. Ease him into the season when he recovers from his spleen op and with a better WAFL team around him, we might just get more inside 50's.

Also - is Barnett a massive KPF who can pinch hit in the ruck or a genuine 1st ruck? I saw enough of Barnett in 2022 to think he can be the 203 cm KPF that towers in the forward line and leave Oscar more as the leading up forward.

I have not seen enough positive evidence that BWilliams or Jamieson will only be a backup ruck and neither look like doing much damage in the forward line.

If Barnett can not only get back to his high level fitness base but improve on it he could well be a full field utility like Blicavs. Not quite as agile but better forward of the ball and has a great ability to read the play anywhere on the ground. It's a stretch but i dont believe it's beyond the realms of possibility.

You don't pick a third tall forward, defender or second ruck. He can play any position depending on the situation and can link kup around the ground. Allows 2 genuine small forwards, 2 genuine Half forwards and 4 small/medium defenders no matter who you play. You have 6 genuine talls in your best 22 and need one of your mid sized forwards or mids to be able to play as a marking forward and a guy in defence who can player taller than he is.

So in essence
2 key forwards
2 key defenders
1 genuine first ruck
Barnett
4 small/medium forwards
4 small/medium defenders
8 midfielders
Sub.

Barnett becomes your player who depending on your opponent you use to take advantage of whichever weakness they have.

Also Jack Williams showed a shitload more than I was expecting last year. I really didn't rate him in his draft year but thought he was very good as a developing tall. Absolutely want to see another year or two before making a decision. I didn't think he was agile enough but he so far has shown me to be wrong and secondly I agree there is something about him, a drive and will to make the contest and compete that I like a lot.

 

[briztoon]

So you think good list management is to be holding a bunch of picks for 18 year olds and instead of picking 18 year olds (or better still trading for established players), they went and got two 17 years olds!!!

They should have been banned from buying the GWS mini draft picks as I believe this was poor governance by the AFL in letting them get even younger. The Suns got sucked into thinking most of their team would be the best and brightest youngsters and failed to get the older more established B and C graders into their team.

Since we have had the ability to trade for future picks, the Suns have been constantly in credit for the following year.

Depends on how many 18 year olds you want to bring in at one time.

Whether you can entice decent quality mature agers to come to your club.

If you can’t get decent quality mature age players, better off going for the best possible kids.

And the quality of those 17 year olds.

WCE_phil only just today spoke about how high he rated Jack Martin as a junior. And everyone rated O’Meara as a can’t miss prospect.

So yeah, in their position, Gold Coast probably did the right thing at the time.

What happened after, isn’t on the list management side of the discussion.

 

[bzparkes]

I have not seen enough positive evidence that BWilliams or Jamieson will only be a backup ruck and neither look like doing much damage in the forward line.

Well, you'll be pleased to know that long-term, Simmo sees Williams as a KPF who pinch-hits in the ruck. He said this on Ask Simmo this week.

Might've even been in response to Miguel Sanchez's question.