List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Waste of time talking about the rookie draft with our hit rate lately, in the last 10 rookie drafts the only player of any possible long term value whatsoever was Harry Edwards and the jury is still out on him.

Rookies can dictate how deep we go in the ND.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[WCE_phil]

Don't mind that Demons deal but highly doubt they'd be willing to part with JVR as he's just re-signed as well as their key forward stocks being, meh

It wasn't supposed to be realistic but those are the sort of deals I would want to give up pick 1 this year. It was an idea in principal not a suggestion.

 

[new breed]

Keep Trew and Clark both midfielders and Clark an experienced , solid frame midfielder we need , without them the players we draft as 18 yr olds will struggle .

 

[YeoGabbaGabba]

It wasn't supposed to be realistic but those are the sort of deals I would want to give up pick 1 this year. It was an idea in principal not a suggestion.

Gotcha. Also agree with that Sam Taylor take, think he'd hypothetically be a dream target along with Tim English for me

 

[Obeanie1]

The only difference I would make would be to Potentially keep Foley as a re-rookie instead of Clark. Not for the sake of the WAFL side but because of the list I think he's the only one who's still a genuine chance of playing at a decent level at AFL. Maybe I have a soft spot for him.

Here is the base principle. If you can get an A grade player at 24 years old or under that compliments your list and still keep a top 5 pick in the draft then no matter who is in the draft i'd take it.

Even if you go well I want 2001 and I want to take Judd at pick 1 with hindsight. OK, then the same thing works the other way too. I'll take 3rd place in the 1998 rising star in Warren Tredrea and with pick 5 I'll draft Jimmy Bartel.

Or even still I want the 2009 draft and at pick 1 take Dustin Martin. Ok, at pick 5 I'll draft Ben Cunnington and I'll take David Mundy from the 2005 3rd place in the rising star.

Now If anyone is telling me they would take Judd over the combined Tredrea and Bartel or even Martin over Cunnington and Mundy when you are basically building a talent base from scratch pretty much every recruiter would think you're an idiot.

Now those are say the 2 huge generational talents who have Both won brownlows, flags and norm smiths. But neither went pick 1 and s**t if it were West Coast after the drug saga and we took Martin, he would have been delisted before becoming an elite player with all his off field s**t.

All eggs in one basket?

Versus three eggs!

I'm nervous about drafting Ried with our recent injury history and poor record of keeping even the kids fit and on the park.

Starting to lean towards splitting either pick 1 or pick 2. We need multiple top 10 picks and sooner rather than later.

 

[new breed]

All eggs in one basket?

Versus three eggs!

I'm nervous about drafting Ried with our recent injury history and poor record of keeping even the kids fit and on the park.

Starting to lean towards splitting either pick 1 or pick 2. We need multiple top 10 picks and sooner rather than later.

Yes our injury crisis is a concern .
Needs little steps rather then Giant leaps next few seasons !

 

[Chump Change]

I would suggest 1 player including the 2000 draft onwards has been the best player from their draft crop at pick 1 and that's Nick Riewoldt who was drafted in 2000.

People place too much emphasis on pick 1 and mostly on guys who are much further along the development path than others in their age bracket all at 18-19 years old. Players develop at different rates.

When you get pick 1, you basically get the best 17 year old in the country. And as you said - this rarely turns out to be the best player in the pool. But what you get over pick 5 or 6 is a lesser risk of picking a bust.

Take the coming draft:

Moir - fwd, 50m dead eye dick both feet. Will he be Bailey Fritsch? Will he be Isaac Smith? Can he run in the midfield?
Duursma - looks good. How good will he be though?
Curtin - is he OA or is he MacDougal? Or does he end up a third tall?

That's what you're getting when you get pick 5 or 6.

It's essentially as you say - 17 is a snapshot in time. Some players peak here, some can't adapt to AFL footy, some end up just not being as good as the top players in the big pool, and then some players picked later end up going on with it.....

BUT

There are those rare players that are top of tree when they're 12, and then 17, and then 23, and then 28. Not matter what pool you throw them in, they rise to the top.

Those players typically sit in the top 5 picks. When I look at this upcoming draft right now, Reid is the guy who by far looks like he is this person. The risk of passing him up is too high.

 

[EagleEgo]

In relation to the discussion of 2023 pick 1, how many of the pick 1 in the last 20 years has turned out to be the best player of the associated draft?

 

[Chump Change]

Now If anyone is telling me they would take Judd over the combined Tredrea and Bartel or even Martin over Cunnington and Mundy when you are basically building a talent base from scratch pretty much every recruiter would think you're an idiot.

I'll take Judd (just), and Dusty any day of the week.

Those other players are easier to find from elsewhere.

I don't think Richmond or West Coast win any of the flags without Judd or Dusty, but think Geelong still win whereas Port would struggle without Tredrea.

 

[Chump Change]

In relation to the discussion of 2023 pick 1, how many of the pick 1 in the last 20 years has turned out to be the best player of the associated draft?

It's rare but that's not the only consideration.

 

[WCE_phil]

When you get pick 1, you basically get the best 17 year old in the country. And as you said - this rarely turns out to be the best player in the pool. But what you get over pick 5 or 6 is a lesser risk of picking a bust.

Take the coming draft:

Moir - fwd, 50m dead eye dick both feet. Will he be Bailey Fritsch? Will he be Isaac Smith? Can he run in the midfield?
Duursma - looks good. How good will he be though?
Curtin - is he OA or is he MacDougal? Or does he end up a third tall?

That's what you're getting when you get pick 5 or 6.

It's essentially as you say - 17 is a snapshot in time. Some players peak here, some can't adapt to AFL footy, some end up just not being as good as the top players in the big pool, and then some players picked later end up going on with it.....

BUT

There are those rare players that are top of tree when they're 12, and then 17, and then 23, and then 28. Not matter what pool you throw them in, they rise to the top.

Those players typically sit in the top 5 picks. When I look at this upcoming draft right now, Reid is the guy who by far looks like he is this person. The risk of passing him up is too high.

I think you need to understand the base perspective of what i'm saying. I'm not saying lets split picks here. I was providing a couple of scenarios of what it would take, knowing who is in the draft now, where the clubs list is and to then get me to make the decision.

Yes Reid right now is a clear number 1. He will likely still be number 1 by the end of the year. However with how much players develop in their final year before the draft that difference between him and others will significantly close up or he may even get overtaken.

As i've said before IMO there are at least 20 players who could fill the slots right now from 2-10 come draft night. Then past those 20 there are at least another 40 players right now who I would consider AFL quality talents from the level of 20-30 last year. Then you get your lucky dip.

At the start of last year who was seen as the number 1 talent. Harry Lemmey (went pick 47 after quite a few issues throughout the year)
Who was seen as the top talent going into the draft year the year before. I would suggest Tyler Sonsie (He went at pick 28 and didn't even have that bad a year)

Harry Lemmey was seen as the most sure thing as a CHF since Nick Riewoldt.

I am going on and on so i'll cut it short. The base principle is this. A lot changes during a players draft year all the way up to and including during the draft. Secondly I was only providing a principle idea of what it would take for me to split pick 1 this year.

 

[Rowan18]

I really don't see us finishing last unless Hawks decide to actually win some games and our injury list stays this bad all year. We're likely to get a bunch of depth back after the bye and there's at least a couple of games we'll probably win (North at Home and Freo in the derby).

 

[Chump Change]

I think you need to understand the base perspective of what i'm saying. I'm not saying lets split picks here. I was providing a couple of scenarios of what it would take, knowing who is in the draft now, where the clubs list is and to then get me to make the decision.

Yes Reid right now is a clear number 1. He will likely still be number 1 by the end of the year. However with how much players develop in their final year before the draft that difference between him and others will significantly close up or he may even get overtaken.

As i've said before IMO there are at least 20 players who could fill the slots right now from 2-10 come draft night. Then past those 20 there are at least another 40 players right now who I would consider AFL quality talents from the level of 20-30 last year. Then you get your lucky dip.

At the start of last year who was seen as the number 1 talent. Harry Lemmey (went pick 47 after quite a few issues throughout the year)
Who was seen as the top talent going into the draft year the year before. I would suggest Tyler Sonsie (He went at pick 28 and didn't even have that bad a year)

Harry Lemmey was seen as the most sure thing as a CHF since Nick Riewoldt.

I am going on and on so i'll cut it short. The base principle is this. A lot changes during a players draft year all the way up to and including during the draft. Secondly I was only providing a principle idea of what it would take for me to split pick 1 this year.

I'm talking about today as if the draft was tomorrow. Come November, if that changes (and it often does) then my opinion changes with it. But even still, I think this Harley Reid guy will still be a cut above. I expect some midfielders will announce themselves come Champs and slide into top 5 contention along with a KPF, but I think Reid will stay the distance. I think he just looks more likely than anyone else to assert himself in the top 5 players in the AFL than most other kids we see in the draft over a number of years.

 

[WCE_phil]

I think the big thing here is we're going to have to agree to disagree. From my perspective purely on this. The draft just like the premiership isn't decided in April.

 

[SumaGodCoach]

Pencil May 21 into your calendars. We could get flogged by the Hawks down in Tassie or they could pull an all time tank job for the ages.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I think the big thing here is we're going to have to agree to disagree. From my perspective purely on this. The draft just like the premiership isn't decided in April.

Word of caution - chumpy here has a load of people agreeing to disagree with him. Save yourself a few hours and leave it at that

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Pencil May 21 into your calendars. We could get flogged by the Hawks down in Tassie or they could pull an all time tank job for the ages.

 

[Dark Sharks]

That's a good point about Clark. He's probably not AFL quality, but he'd be an absolute ideal role model for any young mid/player we draft that ends up in the WAFL.

Big bodied, strong leader and total professional who has gotten so much out of himself. Just what a struggling Beagles team needs.


As for West, XON, Winder, Foley and Trew..

 

[Wormkilla]

For once Suma is right. We are an absolute basket case. There’s no other way of putting it. I’ve been supporting the eagles since 1990 and I’ve never seen it like this.

Sumich calls for Eagles overhaul after another failed season

West Coast members, sponsors and fans deserve to know more accurately what has led the club to a playing crisis never seen before, writes Peter Sumich.

thewest.com.au

I reckon eagles supporters in general are being way too soft, accepting mediocrity, brave losses and hoping things will turn things around. Watching them on the weekend at AO - we are a pharking debacle. Basic skill errors being made by highly paid players, structure is a mess. Simpson has to go by the bye. There has to be some pressure from members to sack him, the sports science staff and list managers. How do we have so many soft tissue injuries in this day and age?

But because we’re not a club that has its board elected by its members probably reduces the influence they have in proceedings, despite having the biggest membership numbers.

We need massive change. Complete overhaul. And we need to do it quickly. I think they think “we can’t trade NicNat, McGov, Yeo etc because the supporters will be up in arms” but Hawks did it with Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. Other clubs done it too. Its ludicrous to give Gov another contract. Maybe there is some agreeement because he took a big pay cut during covid, but surely they cant be considering doing this given his injury history. Hes already hinted at wanting to go play with his brother somewhere. Let him go ffs. As for Nic Nat - whats he there for? Literally no other reason but to sell merchandise and Hungry Jacks. Eagles have previously disclosed a large chunk of his total salary has come out of a promotional budget outside of the salary cap.

Got to look at it as a business. Supporters will get over it, they just want the club to win again.

Sure there’s not much value in the whopper brigade but even if we get late picks it’s something. Mitch Lewis was pick 76 that Hawks got off us for Sam Mitchell. James Worpel

5

James Worpel

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.2

5star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.8

4star

was 45 for Hodge.

But irrelevant of the picks, the list will actually be stronger in the long term without them there. Got to get games into the kids. If we finish last we can hope Harley Reid becomes the next Judd or Dusty, or look at trying to get a couple or a few first rounders. Id take the latter given on frightening lack of depth. Whisper is the Demons would give 3 first rounders (one of which is the Dockers which they got for Jackson, and one will be a future first rounder).

It’s now or never with a Tassie team coming in which will dilute the quality of draft picks and talent. We cant be trying to rebuild when they come in.

Ill be laughed at but we are one of the most successful clubs in history and at the moment the depth is just not there to give me confidence that we'll be anywhere near finals in 4/5 years time. Just look at the atrocity that is the WAFL team.

 

[Godfather32]

Sure there’s not much value in the whopper brigade but even if we get late picks it’s something. Mitch Lewis was pick 76 that we got off the Eagles for Sam Mitchell. James Worpel was 45 for Hodge.

Hawthorn troll?

 

[Wormkilla]

Hawthorn troll?

Grammar error, but I appreciate the conversational response.

 

[Godfather32]

Grammar error, but I appreciate the conversational response.

When you start with this - For once Suma is right - and then go on to call Eagles fans soft, it doesn't merit much of a response to be honest.

And I still think you're a Hawthorn troll based on your "grammar error" and this:

 

[Chris_6678]

For once Suma is right. We are an absolute basket case. There’s no other way of putting it. I’ve been supporting the eagles since 1990 and I’ve never seen it like this.

Sumich calls for Eagles overhaul after another failed season

West Coast members, sponsors and fans deserve to know more accurately what has led the club to a playing crisis never seen before, writes Peter Sumich.

thewest.com.au

I reckon eagles supporters in general are being way too soft, accepting mediocrity, brave losses and hoping things will turn things around. Watching them on the weekend at AO - we are a pharking debacle. Basic skill errors being made by highly paid players, structure is a mess. Simpson has to go by the bye. There has to be some pressure from members to sack him, the sports science staff and list managers. How do we have so many soft tissue injuries in this day and age?

But because we’re not a club that has its board elected by its members probably reduces the influence they have in proceedings, despite having the biggest membership numbers.

We need massive change. Complete overhaul. And we need to do it quickly. I think they think “we can’t trade NicNat, McGov, Yeo etc because the supporters will be up in arms” but Hawks did it with Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. Other clubs done it too. Its ludicrous to give Gov another contract. Maybe there is some agreeement because he took a big pay cut during covid, but surely they cant be considering doing this given his injury history. Hes already hinted at wanting to go play with his brother somewhere. Let him go ffs. As for Nic Nat - whats he there for? Literally no other reason but to sell merchandise and Hungry Jacks. Eagles have previously disclosed a large chunk of his total salary has come out of a promotional budget outside of the salary cap.

Got to look at it as a business. Supporters will get over it, they just want the club to win again.

Sure there’s not much value in the whopper brigade but even if we get late picks it’s something. Mitch Lewis was pick 76 that Hawks got off us for Sam Mitchell. James Worpel was 45 for Hodge.

But irrelevant of the picks, the list will actually be stronger in the long term without them there. Got to get games into the kids. If we finish last we can hope Harley Reid becomes the next Judd or Dusty, or look at trying to get a couple or a few first rounders. Id take the latter given on frightening lack of depth. Whisper is the Demons would give 3 first rounders (one of which is the Dockers which they got for Jackson, and one will be a future first rounder).

It’s now or never with a Tassie team coming in which will dilute the quality of draft picks and talent. We cant be trying to rebuild when they come in.

Ill be laughed at but we are one of the most successful clubs in history and at the moment the depth is just not there to give me confidence that we'll be anywhere near finals in 4/5 years time. Just look at the atrocity that is the WAFL team.

Ok Suma

 

[Chump Change]

For once Suma is right. We are an absolute basket case. There’s no other way of putting it. I’ve been supporting the eagles since 1990 and I’ve never seen it like this.

Sumich calls for Eagles overhaul after another failed season

West Coast members, sponsors and fans deserve to know more accurately what has led the club to a playing crisis never seen before, writes Peter Sumich.

thewest.com.au

I reckon eagles supporters in general are being way too soft, accepting mediocrity, brave losses and hoping things will turn things around. Watching them on the weekend at AO - we are a pharking debacle. Basic skill errors being made by highly paid players, structure is a mess. Simpson has to go by the bye. There has to be some pressure from members to sack him, the sports science staff and list managers. How do we have so many soft tissue injuries in this day and age?

But because we’re not a club that has its board elected by its members probably reduces the influence they have in proceedings, despite having the biggest membership numbers.

We need massive change. Complete overhaul. And we need to do it quickly. I think they think “we can’t trade NicNat, McGov, Yeo etc because the supporters will be up in arms” but Hawks did it with Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. Other clubs done it too. Its ludicrous to give Gov another contract. Maybe there is some agreeement because he took a big pay cut during covid, but surely they cant be considering doing this given his injury history. Hes already hinted at wanting to go play with his brother somewhere. Let him go ffs. As for Nic Nat - whats he there for? Literally no other reason but to sell merchandise and Hungry Jacks. Eagles have previously disclosed a large chunk of his total salary has come out of a promotional budget outside of the salary cap.

Got to look at it as a business. Supporters will get over it, they just want the club to win again.

Sure there’s not much value in the whopper brigade but even if we get late picks it’s something. Mitch Lewis was pick 76 that Hawks got off the Eagles for Sam Mitchell. James Worpel was 45 for Hodge.

But irrelevant of the picks, the list will actually be stronger in the long term without them there. Got to get games into the kids. If we finish last we can hope Harley Reid becomes the next Judd or Dusty, or look at trying to get a couple or a few first rounders. Id take the latter given on frightening lack of depth.

It’s now or never with a Tassie team coming in which will dilute the quality of draft picks and talent.

Ill be laughed at but we are one of the most successful clubs in history and at the moment the depth is just not there to give me confidence that we'll be anywhere near finals in 4/5 years time. Just look at the atrocity that is the WAFL team.

He's not right and you're being a little Nancy bitch.

The crisis is not a crisis. Crisies are for Karens.

But why are we in this position?

Because we built a list over 10 years to win flags, and we won one. When you're in the flag window, you not only get late draft picks but you trade for the now. You have to strike while the iron is hot. So 10 years without a top 10 draft pick is going to have an effect.

We could have traded out Gaff and Gov a few years back (and I strongly suggested we do it), but we didn't. The biggest issue we had/have is not the list state now but the fact that we didn't realise the game plan was a bust while we had a list capable of winning another flag.

Right now, we're on a full rebuild. We haven't made the same mistake Hawks made (drafting Mitchell, O'meara, Wingard), or Richmond (Taranto and Hopper), we've accepted this list can't compete and we're turning it over in draft rather than the trade table.

Shuey, Nic, Gov, Yeo. All on last legs. Almost no trade value so may as well have them to guide youth.

We're doing fine, just some people are so entitled they think they're above supporting a side that has to pay its penance down the bottom.

We're rebuilding and probably on target. It's all good.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Can someone do a pick/player swa, we end up with a low pick, Naughton and Taylor please.

Bit flat today. I need a pick me up.