List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

 

[RanaNaved]

Remember the "Matthew Kreuzer

8

Matthew Kreuzer

Age

35

Ht

200cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.6

4star

CL

3.1

5star

HO

21.0

5star

D

1.0

1star

K

0.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

HO

7.0

5star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

HO

9.8

5star

cup" match

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Even if you don’t like Sumich, even if you don’t agree with his opinions and think he is going too far and the tone is too aggressive etc, the fact that this stuff is being printed in small quantities now is a good thing because it opens up the debate and puts pressure on the people in charge at the club to be accountable for the results. It would not be a good thing if Nisbett and co were allowed to continue to just pull the shutters down and hide and rely on the threat of cutting off access to the club to ensure there is no criticism of them in the local media. Even if you don’t think Sumich’s views are fair and measured a modicum of pressure on the people in charge is a good thing.

 

[Chump Change]

You sound aggressively in denial to honest.

Of course you try to keep the window open but we kept hold of the old guard for too long, and the contracts we handed out to the likes of Gov, Gaff were irresponsible. Two more years for Nic Nat - irresponsible. The issue is definitely the list. 22 and younger - there is very little to get excited about holistically apart from our recent draftees. Our youth is extremely weak. Maybe one of the weakest in the comp. You're deluded if you cant see the list is a mess. Absolutely deluded.

Kelly has probably been our best mid for the last two years, but to give up so much? Again, irresponsible and its absolutely killed us.

You exemplify the problem with the eagles supporter base overall. House is burning down but nothing to see here - lets turn on anyone who suggests otherwise and punch on at the Camfield after the game after a few mid strengths.

I wanted Simmo sacked in mid 2020. If I had a time machine, I'd go back and sack him. Right now, I don't want him sacked because we're in a different situation so sacking him now is bad timing. I'm not an in denial fanboy. Just a guy who can see the patterns.

Do you know how many teams have won a flag without a rebuild? Two. Swans and Cats. Swans were extremely well coached and defied the odds. Cats won 3 flags with young superstars like Selwood and Hawkins as bottom agers and then were able to trade in elite talent such as Danger and Jezza. That's almost impossible to replicate. And we had no 22 year old Selwood or Hawkins types in our flag side.

On Kelly - it was the right trade at the time. Window was still open and in a top 4 side he's an elite decision maker. The problem wasn't the trade, the problem was we kept playing that game plan that had been surpassed. If I had a time machine I'd change it, but if I were put back in that spot without hindsight - I'd do the trade every time. We have to accept that trade was a good option at the time and move on.

As for the list being a mess? It's your simplistic way of looking at it that is the problem.

Shuey, Yeo, Nic, Gov all battered and broken down. JK retired, Hurn pushing 50. Gaff spudding it up. I think Gaff and Gov should have been traded out over the last 3 years. I think we should be looking to trade out Ryan now. Happy to see Rioli go. There's not much we can do about those injuries but here's the kicker:

The injuries sink us to the bottom and allow us to get top draft picks.

After 94 we dicked around for 5 years making finals thinking we could rebuild and have another go at the flag. That was a wasted 5 years. It wasn't until we bottomed out and drafted in some real talent that things started to happen for us. Same thing happened after 06. Not as bad, but faded out over too many years. Have a look at Hawks right now - last flag was 2015. They wasted 6 years before they twigged and offloaded Mitchell and O'meara. Richmond are doing it with Taranto and Hopper. We didn't do this bullshit. We just fast tracked our way to the bottom which is the best option if you want to build a side that can win one or more flags.

So is the list a mess? No. It's shit. It's bottom 2. But it's exactly where I want it to be - where we can draft in top talent and build a complete new team capable of winning multiple flags quicker than our last 2 flag gaps of 12 years.

I was once at Capri restaurant in Freo. Suma and his fam were on the next table. I looked across and Suma is putting some food into his mouth. He missed his mouth and stabbed himself in the cheek. That's the sort of calibre you're thinking is. Simple. It's sounds like you'd be happy in 10th wasting time with a list that can't be changed into a flag list.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Maybe someone should explain this to Sumich.

No doubt we have under performed since 2018 and last year was terrible.

This season we have admitted and embraced the rebuild. We arent getting flogged every quarter just cant put together 4 quarter efforts.

Sumich has always been a bit dim.

I think we'll lose this week without getting blown out in a single quarter. But that will be down to Carlton being a boring side.

Opponents have a lot to do with how we lose at the moment, Port and Geelong are hot and cold sides that have forward power.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Chump Change]

Injuries may or may not be accidental, but our current position is no accident. It is strategically thought through and planned.

Absolutely. And if we don't think Mitchell traded out Mitchell and O'meara because he knew he couldn't build them into a flag side, and felt going to the bottom of the table to get top draft picks wasn't completely thought through and planned, we are delusional.

 

[Chump Change]

I agree that the trade value on the veterans has declined so badly that it is not worth trying to trade them.

But I think you are delusional if you think “it is all good”. It definately isn’t. Look at the results from our drafting and development departments, our list management and contract negotiation departments and the S&C departments. To say we are below League average is an understatement. There are lots of areas where massive improvement and personal changes are required. It is definately not all good.

I'm only talking about the list and it is fine.

Barass, OA, Chesser, Culley, Bazzo, Hough, Ginbey, Hewitt, Barnet, Long

Darling, Kelly, Gov, Ryan to oversee.

2 -3 more drafts.

Being bottom 2 doesn't matter. it's not relevant apart from delivering top drafts picks. The draft was designed to do this. What matters is how good the talent is that we draft in. Seriously, it's the most important thing by far.

I don't understand why people are crying about the list? What do you want? 10th and another 5 years of mid table nothingness until we bottom out?

 

[Lazzas]

I'm only talking about the list and it is fine.

Barass, OA, Chesser, Culley, Bazzo, Hough, Ginbey, Hewitt, Barnet, Long

Darling, Kelly, Gov, Ryan to oversee.

2 -3 more drafts.

Being bottom 2 day doesn't matter. it's not relevant apart from delivering top drafts picks. The draft was designed to do this. What matters is how good the talent is that we draft in. Seriously, it's the most important thing by far.

I don't understand why people are crying about the list? What do you want? 10th and another 5 years of mid table nothingness until we bottom out?

And with the Tassie side coming in it's a good time to rebuild, before the draft becomes compromised.

The 2023 draft is touted as being a strong one you would think at least 4 players come in.

Players will be moved out.

 

[WCE_phil]

When things are not working you have to willing to recognise it and try and improve.

We won two games last year. We may well only win two games this year. We had players running around with beer guts last year. We had players going to nightclubs in the middle of the Covid insanity. Our drafting must be close to the worst in the league over the last 10 years. We have not come even close to getting par value, let alone winning, on any of the long term contracts we were throwing around like confetti for senior players.

You can’t just sit there and pretend that no change is needed.

The most senior of the players who went out on the nightclub incident and to me was nowhere near the worst player on our list last year was essentially delisted from that point on.

Yes the club stuck with him and he is now the captain of the Wafl Eagles side. Yes the WAFL eagles side has been horrendous but Nelson has quite easily been the best player for the side this year and is as fit as ever and is leading from the front.

I would also ask if you have ever worked in a modern club environment. I'm not talking at AFL level here but with teens and young adults who are all a young group in the same field? You can't just tear kids apart these days. Even guys in their late 20's, they will just buck against it rather than knuckle down. As much as people don't like it they need to be led and fed positivity to get the best out of themselves. Long gone are the days where you destroy blokes at half time or after a match and get a good result long term. The coaching team loses the players.

Yes the players weren't fit enough last year and standards had slid and perhaps even the year before as well. I don't think anyone now is denying that. However there have been huge changes at the club and the club tried for even more footy staff personnel changes over the summer. We came out of the preseason the fittest i've seen the team in a long time. Shit they were still trying to shore up the recruiting department in March.

Shuey offered to step down as captain but was backed in by the club and the players themselves vote on who the captain should be. If the club came out and said sorry, we're vetoing your vote and installing someone else as captain how do you think that goes for club morale?

Nicnat being given a 2 year contract and redden not being given a contract for this year are probably the only two things I would have liked the club to handle differently. (internally) Redden would have been really useful this year and I certainly would have backed him in with his durability over others we kept. Also it basically came down to Shuey or Redden. How did we go the last time we essentially delisted sacked and delisted a club captain? Not very well. Also on keeping Nicnat with an ongoing issue with his Achilles it goes both ways.

Nicnat basically put every ounce of his soul into the game last year to see Kennedy sent off with a win and the achilles hasn't been right since. But lets look at that, it's something he has been managing for years and is likely in relation to his knee injuries. Kennedy was diagnosed with a degenerative knee condition in 2013/2014, yet won 2 (should have been 3) colemans after that point and became our greatest ever goal kicker. With injuries like this you don't know how long a player has left and secondly Nicnat gets paid the AFL ambassador money which is outside the salary and soft cap at 300k per year and is on basically minimum AFL salary for an established player above that. He is worth more around the club as a leader, teacher of a young ruck brigade and well and truly worth more from a revenue perspective. Also we don't have another player the AFL would pay on the list to be an ambassador for the game.

The McGovern and Gaff deals were the right thing at the time, the Yeo contract was the right decision at the time. The Tim Kelly trade was expensive and we were ****ed over by the BODE but it was the right call for a team going all in on a premiership. I still truly believe Geelong had no interest in trading him to us the year before. The club on the last day even caved and offered Geelong everything it asked for and was turned down.

What more do people want? This is at the very least no matter who you put in the roles another 3 years before we start to rise again. Or would you like to cripple the clubs future by trading for the now (if you can even get players to move and then they would be on inflated salaries plus the loss of draft capital) only to end up being a mid table team and having to have another rebuilt in 5 years time.

With the system that is in place now plus a tasmanian club coming in the club basically has to draft and develop perfectly plus get lucky on a few trades and free agents otherwise we won't be winning a flag. Academies, FS, more teams picking in each round of the draft plus every club doing their best to be at the height of professionalism means winning a flag for a WA team is nigh on impossible. We were damned lucky to win one when we did and then the AFL completely destroyed our game plan with rule changes and a group of family oriented blokes got pissed off during the first Covid hub for which we were given no end date. Literally the guinea pigs for a once in a lifetime event. At the end of that season a guy who probably had 1 more good year in him was moved on despite being well liked by the players because of it. You combine all this with a soft cap 30% lower than the club is used to spending on the football department (not accounting for inflation) and we literally have our hands tied behind our back.

The only other thing I would say we have ****ed up was in keeping Nisbett around. Vozzo should have been handed the reigns, maybe with Nisbett in the background for a year when he was ready. But Nisbett held on, Vozzo got rightly pissed, had some time off and came back in a less significant role before being poached later on.

The drafting hasn't been great but the picks haven't been great either. For most of those drafts and picks we were playing lucky dip and didn't get so lucky. But we did get lucky enough to trade in the right players and have a couple of late draft picks light it up and win us a premiership.

This will be the last time i respond to you on this, I literally have no-one on ignore but your posting is just a revolving cycle of shitting on the club with no solutions. Seriously come up with a viable solution or even close to one and I'll respect it and respond.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Can we just delete the last 3 pages

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I'm only talking about the list and it is fine.

Barass, OA, Chesser, Culley, Bazzo, Hough, Ginbey, Hewitt, Barnet, Long

Darling, Kelly, Gov, Ryan to oversee.

2 -3 more drafts.

Being bottom 2 day doesn't matter. it's not relevant apart from delivering top drafts picks. The draft was designed to do this. What matters is how good the talent is that we draft in. Seriously, it's the most important thing by far.

I don't understand why people are crying about the list? What do you want? 10th and another 5 years?

Are you one of the posters from last year that was saying everything was great, top 8 was on the cards once Covid passed and there was no need for any rebuild. Because there were lots of posters on here saying that.

The position that the list was a mess and a full rebuild was needed was a fringe opinion on here last year. If you expressed that view you had a gang of rabid fan boy losers I call the Sanchez Crew stalking you through threads hurling insults at you.

All of a sudden that position is now mainstream on here. Lots of posters have done a quiet 180 on it. And it seems some are now saying that the bottom 2 finishes are all part of a cunning plan.

Are you one of those Sanchez Crew posters who have done a 180?

 

[bzparkes]

Are you one of the posters from last year that was saying everything was great, top 8 was on the cards once Covid passed and there was no need for any rebuild. Because there were lots of posters on here saying that.

The position that the list was a mess and a full rebuild was needed was a fringe opinion on here last year. If you expressed that view you had a gang of rabid fan boy losers I call the Sanchez Crew stalking you through threads hurling insults at you.

All of a sudden that position is now mainstream on here. Lots of posters have done a quiet 180 on it. And it seems some are now saying that the bottom 2 finishes are all part of a cunning plan.

Are you one of those Sanchez Crew posters who have done a 180?

He was saying last year we needed to finish as low as possible actually and I don't recall him being hounded by this 'Sanchez crew'.

Most of those people don't actually express their opinion, they just spew vitriol and want the club thrown in the bin.

 

[RanaNaved]

I was robbed by a Sanchez crew member when I was in L.A a few years ago

 

[MrWoollie]

So have we reached the point where we've had (inc this year) two absolute crappola years and can ask (and expect to get) compensation picks from the AFL?

Let's do a comparison to Gold Coast and their 2019 compo package.
In 2018 GC finished 17th with 4 wins.
In 2019 they finished 18th with 3 wins and got a compo package.
Compo... In 2019 they got picks 1 and 22 (to go with pick 2. And remember they had picks 2, 3 and 6 in 2018).
In 2020 they got pick 11 and in 2021 pick 19.
Plus Darwin, plus pre-listing of academy players.

Compare.
In 2022 we finished 17th with 2 wins.
In 2023 it looks like 17th or 18th with maybe 3 wins but probably 1 or 2.
In addition we have lost two of our 4 first round draftees of the past 12 years to career ending concussion injuries.

In other words we are noticeably worse than GC were when they got handed the compo package from heaven.

Should we not get a package at least as good?

 

[Chump Change]

Are you one of the posters from last year that was saying everything was great, top 8 was on the cards once Covid passed and there was no need for any rebuild. Because there were lots of posters on here saying that.

No. Not even close. I was "flag window is gone, we are bottom 2, and we'll be bottom 4 for the next 3-4 years". I was happy that we sunk so low, so quickly. I was delighted with those injuries just as I am delighted with current injuries.

Go read my posts. It's all there. The way I think about football is different to the rank and file stuff that mimics the weekly media football cycle. Why you draft certain types of players at certain draft pick bands, how you build a list, why you're better off sinking to the bottom as soon as the premiership window closes, why thinking you have to try and win every game is a mugs game, why getting upset about fringe players is a waste of energy unless you're in the window, why 80% of players are soldiers and their performance is often based on their team's success etc. It's all there.

Most people listen to the media personalities. The problem with that - they have to package everything into a weekly cycle because punters want opinions on what what is topical. "richmond are doing this, richmond aren't doing that, this player is underperforming, Dimma has to do this...." The truth is they won 3 flags, their list is old and jaded and can no longer compete with the top teams. No punter wants to hear that. They want to apportion blame. They want to think that something can be done and they can win another flag next year. They want to go to the football on the weekend and see their team win. This is a mugs game with how the draft works.

But right here on BF, the people who can see the weekly media cycle for what it is, know that there's an alternate truth. Not an opposite truth, just a better and more relevant way at thinking about football.

The position that the list was a mess and a full rebuild was needed was a fringe opinion on here last year. If you expressed that view you had a gang of rabid fan boy losers I call the Sanchez Crew stalking you through threads hurling insults at you.

I wanted Simmo sacked in mid 2020 because he refused to changed from "corale and intercept". That was not popular at the time.

All of a sudden that position is now mainstream on here. Lots of posters have done a quiet 180 on it. And it seems some are now saying that the bottom 2 finishes are all part of a cunning plan.

Are you one of those Sanchez Crew posters who have done a 180?

No.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

The most senior of the players who went out on the nightclub incident and to me was nowhere near the worst player on our list last year was essentially delisted from that point on.

Yes the club stuck with him and he is now the captain of the Wafl Eagles side. Yes the WAFL eagles side has been horrendous but Nelson has quite easily been the best player for the side this year and is as fit as ever and is leading from the front.

I would also ask if you have ever worked in a modern club environment. I'm not talking at AFL level here but with teens and young adults who are all a young group in the same field? You can't just tear kids apart these days. Even guys in their late 20's, they will just buck against it rather than knuckle down. As much as people don't like it they need to be led and fed positivity to get the best out of themselves. Long gone are the days where you destroy blokes at half time or after a match and get a good result long term. The coaching team loses the players.

Yes the players weren't fit enough last year and standards had slid and perhaps even the year before as well. I don't think anyone now is denying that. However there have been huge changes at the club and the club tried for even more footy staff personnel changes over the summer. We came out of the preseason the fittest i've seen the team in a long time. s**t they were still trying to shore up the recruiting department in March.

Shuey offered to step down as captain but was backed in by the club and the players themselves vote on who the captain should be. If the club came out and said sorry, we're vetoing your vote and installing someone else as captain how do you think that goes for club morale?

Nicnat being given a 2 year contract and redden not being given a contract for this year are probably the only two things I would have liked the club to handle differently. (internally) Redden would have been really useful this year and I certainly would have backed him in with his durability over others we kept. Also it basically came down to Shuey or Redden. How did we go the last time we essentially delisted sacked and delisted a club captain? Not very well. Also on keeping Nicnat with an ongoing issue with his Achilles it goes both ways.

Nicnat basically put every ounce of his soul into the game last year to see Kennedy sent off with a win and the achilles hasn't been right since. But lets look at that, it's something he has been managing for years and is likely in relation to his knee injuries. Kennedy was diagnosed with a degenerative knee condition in 2013/2014, yet won 2 (should have been 3) colemans after that point and became our greatest ever goal kicker. With injuries like this you don't know how long a player has left and secondly Nicnat gets paid the AFL ambassador money which is outside the salary and soft cap at 300k per year and is on basically minimum AFL salary for an established player above that. He is worth more around the club as a leader, teacher of a young ruck brigade and well and truly worth more from a revenue perspective. Also we don't have another player the AFL would pay on the list to be an ambassador for the game.

The McGovern and Gaff deals were the right thing at the time, the Yeo contract was the right decision at the time. The Tim Kelly trade was expensive and we were ****ed over by the BODE but it was the right call for a team going all in on a premiership. I still truly believe Geelong had no interest in trading him to us the year before. The club on the last day even caved and offered Geelong everything it asked for and was turned down.

What more do people want? This is at the very least no matter who you put in the roles another 3 years before we start to rise again. Or would you like to cripple the clubs future by trading for the now (if you can even get players to move and then they would be on inflated salaries plus the loss of draft capital) only to end up being a mid table team and having to have another rebuilt in 5 years time.

With the system that is in place now plus a tasmanian club coming in the club basically has to draft and develop perfectly plus get lucky on a few trades and free agents otherwise we won't be winning a flag. Academies, FS, more teams picking in each round of the draft plus every club doing their best to be at the height of professionalism means winning a flag for a WA team is nigh on impossible. We were damned lucky to win one when we did and then the AFL completely destroyed our game plan with rule changes and a group of family oriented blokes got pissed off during the first Covid hub for which we were given no end date. Literally the guinea pigs for a once in a lifetime event. At the end of that season a guy who probably had 1 more good year in him was moved on despite being well liked by the players because of it. You combine all this with a soft cap 30% lower than the club is used to spending on the football department (not accounting for inflation) and we literally have our hands tied behind our back.

The only other thing I would say we have ****ed up was in keeping Nisbett around. Vozzo should have been handed the reigns, maybe with Nisbett in the background for a year when he was ready. But Nisbett held on, Vozzo got rightly pissed, had some time off and came back in a less significant role before being poached later on.

The drafting hasn't been great but the picks haven't been great either. For most of those drafts and picks we were playing lucky dip and didn't get so lucky. But we did get lucky enough to trade in the right players and have a couple of late draft picks light it up and win us a premiership.

This will be the last time i respond to you on this, I literally have no-one on ignore but your posting is just a revolving cycle of shitting on the club with no solutions. Seriously come up with a viable solution or even close to one and I'll respect it and respond.

I never suggested trading out picks. That is a straw man argument.

My position is that Nisbett goes, we admit to ourselves that we are nowhere near league best in many areas and we have full review into everything with nobody controlling the outcome before it starts as Nisbett would if he was there.

Some of your arguments are ridiculous. We were grossly unfit last year but we aren’t this year so we should pretend it never hapenned. Not examine what kind of systems, environment and culture we have in place that allowed it to happen in the first place.

The Hippy club incident was bad but Jackson Nelson has played well in the Beagles this year so we should pretend that that never hapenned aswell. It wasn’t just Nelson. And everybody there was over 18 and responsible for their decisions.

And it is impossible to control young players and stop them going to nightclubs during Covid. Except the other 17 clubs all did it with their young players. And we were the worst affected club by Covid so there should have been more emphasis by our club to the players not to do things like that than at any club.

Our players spat the dummy in the hubs. But some of them have a wife and kids so that justifies it. As if none of the other clubs in the hubs had players on their lists with a wife and kids. It was just us that was affected.

Natanui is over 30 with a chronic achilles issue and may never manage 10 games in a season again, but he tried really hard in the JK farewell game so that makes a wise list decision to give him another two years.

Thank god you are no longer at the club. If the people in decision making positions have logic as tortured as yours then no wonder we are where we are.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Posters on my ignore list are accusing other posters on my ignore list of being in my “crew”.

This is wild.

 

[SumaGodCoach]

I wanted Simmo sacked in mid 2020. If I had a time machine, I'd go back and sack him. Right now, I don't want him sacked because we're in a different situation so sacking him now is bad timing. I'm not an in denial fanboy. Just a guy who can see the patterns.

Do you know how many teams have won a flag without a rebuild? Two. Swans and Cats. Swans were extremely well coached and defied the odds. Cats won 3 flags with young superstars like Selwood and Hawkins as bottom agers and then were able to trade in elite talent such as Danger and Jezza. That's almost impossible to replicate. And we had no 22 year old Selwood or Hawkins types in our flag side.

On Kelly - it was the right trade at the time. Window was still open and in a top 4 side he's an elite decision maker. The problem wasn't the trade, the problem was we kept playing that game plan that had been surpassed. If I had a time machine I'd change it, but if I were put back in that spot without hindsight - I'd do the trade every time. We have to accept that trade was a good option at the time and move on.

As for the list being a mess? It's your simplistic way of looking at it that is the problem.

Shuey, Yeo, Nic, Gov all battered and broken down. JK retired, Hurn pushing 50. Gaff spudding it up. I think Gaff and Gov should have been traded out over the last 3 years. I think we should be looking to trade out Ryan now. Happy to see Rioli go. There's not much we can do about those injuries but here's the kicker:

The injuries sink us to the bottom and allow us to get top draft picks.

After 94 we dicked around for 5 years making finals thinking we could rebuild and have another go at the flag. That was a wasted 5 years. It wasn't until we bottomed out and drafted in some real talent that things started to happen for us. Same thing happened after 06. Not as bad, but faded out over too many years. Have a look at Hawks right now - last flag was 2015. They wasted 6 years before they twigged and offloaded Mitchell and O'meara. Richmond are doing it with Taranto and Hopper. We didn't do this bullshit. We just fast tracked our way to the bottom which is the best option if you want to build a side that can win one or more flags.

So is the list a mess? No. It's s**t. It's bottom 2. But it's exactly where I want it to be - where we can draft in top talent and build a complete new team capable of winning multiple flags quicker than our last 2 flag gaps of 12 years.

I was once at Capri restaurant in Freo. Suma and his fam were on the next table. I looked across and Suma is putting some food into his mouth. He missed his mouth and stabbed himself in the cheek. That's the sort of calibre you're thinking is. Simple. It's sounds like you'd be happy in 10th wasting time with a list that can't be changed into a flag list.

 

[Chump Change]

View attachment 1671964

I can still see the 4 tine scars from the Capri Spaghetti Incident.

Anyone seen AFL23 Legends? Mark Bickley, Brad Ottens, David Cloke, Jarrod Highbrow. Apparently Suma was sole selector.

 

[Monsterdarlz]

Shit posters shitposting what a time to be alive

 

[WCE_phil]

The club does a full review every two years and did a very exhaustive one last year as well. Issues have been identified, people have been moved on, we have seen the semblance of a new game plan coming through and we are giving young talent an opportunity.

Things don't change overnight. As much as I hate to say it we'll probably stay as bad or only get slightly better in the next couple of years before what will have hopefully been a successful draft rebuild when we then start to jump up the ladder.

The change in game style and draft process started in 2021 when we were still on the way down but still if they were on the field a very competitive best 22. Unfortunately we haven't been able to get even close to fielding a best 22 in that time. So we if anything are now prematurely reaching the bottom where as it would likely have happened in 2024 and 2025.

Finding out who can stand up to the rigours of the game long term along with some serious collision injuries has probably been a blessing in disguise long term. You'd hate to be doing the major part of your rebuilding during compromised drafts due to a new side. We got beyond lucky with our drafting in 2010.

 

[Chump Change]

s**t posters shitposting what a time to be alive

"ucking jackson nelson, why's he playing? We have to delist him! My world is caving in! I just can't cope!"
"Why aren't we playing the kids! They're all 3rd and 4th rounders? We should be developing them into the next Shuey and yeo's!"
"I want a ruckman right now! Wah wah wah"
"I can't believe we lost by 10 goals! We just won a flag, our window closed shut, our senior players are injured, but I just can't cope with losing! I don't think I should ever have to see my team bottom 4"


Some people don't want to listen to this shit either mate. Suck it up Karen, it's not all about you. There's different people here who think about football in different ways. Let other people speak and shut yo' piehole.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Nvm

 

[Keys]

The club does a full review every two years and did a very exhaustive one last year as well. Issues have been identified, people have been moved on, we have seen the semblance of a new game plan coming through and we are giving young talent an opportunity.

Things don't change overnight. As much as I hate to say it we'll probably stay as bad or only get slightly better in the next couple of years before what will have hopefully been a successful draft rebuild when we then start to jump up the ladder.

The change in game style and draft process started in 2021 when we were still on the way down but still if they were on the field a very competitive best 22. Unfortunately we haven't been able to get even close to fielding a best 22 in that time. So we if anything are now prematurely reaching the bottom where as it would likely have happened in 2024 and 2025.

Finding out who can stand up to the rigours of the game long term along with some serious collision injuries has probably been a blessing in disguise long term. You'd hate to be doing the major part of your rebuilding during compromised drafts due to a new side. We got beyond lucky with our drafting in 2010.

My own view is that our low point was the back half of 2021 when we went from being in top 4 contention to missing finals all together. It was the culmination of issues that arose in the first hub that manifested in a clear drop in standards and a splintered club.

Changes were made at the end of 2021 (new coaches) and the rebuild through the draft began. There were gains made in fitness ahead of 2022 but covid and injury scuppered those and we got what we got

As you’ve been pointing out there’s been work done to improve things off field but that’s not translating to onfield results yet

Not sure everything is right yet but we’re heading in the right direction I think

 

[Chump Change]

The club does a full review every two years and did a very exhaustive one last year as well. Issues have been identified, people have been moved on, we have seen the semblance of a new game plan coming through and we are giving young talent an opportunity.

Things don't change overnight. As much as I hate to say it we'll probably stay as bad or only get slightly better in the next couple of years before what will have hopefully been a successful draft rebuild when we then start to jump up the ladder.

The change in game style and draft process started in 2021 when we were still on the way down but still if they were on the field a very competitive best 22. Unfortunately we haven't been able to get even close to fielding a best 22 in that time. So we if anything are now prematurely reaching the bottom where as it would likely have happened in 2024 and 2025.

Finding out who can stand up to the rigours of the game long term along with some serious collision injuries has probably been a blessing in disguise long term. You'd hate to be doing the major part of your rebuilding during compromised drafts due to a new side. We got beyond lucky with our drafting in 2010.

One thing I think about, is if I was watching us play this year and last year to come about 10th? I'd be watching but deep down I'd know that the team is just treading water until the inevitable drop. it's not a good feeling watching your team mid table knowing that it's not going to end up in a flag. That would be like being a Freo supporter. Ewww.