List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[WCE_phil]

That's nuts with Reid on the table. With a hamstrung Warlord and flight risk Sheezel, who aren't in the same league as Reid at 17, sure.

The hope is that who you draft with a top 5 pick ends up the calibre of Oliver, Cripps etc. They are the hardest players to acquire and the most important players to premiership success. And we don't even know if Reid will get there. We just know he's a surer thing than most others. And not just a better chance at being an A grade 200 game mid, we're talking about a generational player. That's a realistic potential.

Guys like Sam Taylor are easier to find. We have Barrass, we have Bazzo. We will probably find another player capable of being a stand out KPD in the next few drafts. Probably post #15.

Why would you give up a really strong chance to get a generational midfielder for a player we will find anyway? It's crazy talk.

Because from my perspective a drop of 4 places in the draft is well and truly worth it for the best 22-24 year old key defender in the league. He's a genuine full back as well and with the full perspective listed of Gov leaving I honestly don't understand how people wouldn't take a 4 pick downgrade for a guy who is going to be at worst one of the top 3 full backs in the league for the next 7-8 years.

You take this years draft, perhaps pick up one more tall and then fill the bucket with the best flankers, mid sized forwards and outside mids which this draft is stacked with as well as maybe 1 more ruckman.

 

[Cuzz09]

we come bottom and if Hawks want Reid we get a multi multi club trade happening so we end up with picks 2,3,4,5,6

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[WCE_phil]

The club with the change in game style is trying to change the entire profile of the list. You can't do that with 1 player.

 

[Dark Sharks]

We won't let Gov go unless he wants to go. Same with JD.

We need some experience.

This angle comes up every single time we talk about offloading a senior player. The "we won't have any leaders left" chestnut.


Is premiership players like Duggan, Barrass, Cripps along with AA Kelly invisible? Hunt has been around a ling while. Not to mention Naitanui collecting a pay packet again in 2024 (doubt we'll pay him out given he's a merchandise machine).

It's not like we're doing a Hawthorn and offloading the current heavy lifters in the team like Jaeger, Mitchell, Shiels etc etc.

Presuming we're talking about one of Gaff, McGovern or Darling here. Gaff being the obvious one. Darling and Gov both WA based, with Darling on the verge of a bit of history at the club being our 2nd all time goal kicker behind JK.

Lose Gaff plus Shuey and Hurn and we've still got loads of Simmos credit leaders around, whilst improving our draft hand and list for the future.

 

[Chump Change]

Because from my perspective a drop of 4 places in the draft is well and truly worth it for the best 22-24 year old key defender in the league. He's a genuine full back as well and with the full perspective listed of Gov leaving I honestly don't understand how people wouldn't take a 4 pick downgrade for a guy who is going to be at worst one of the top 3 full backs in the league for the next 7-8 years.

You take this years draft, perhaps pick up one more tall and then fill the bucket with the best flankers, mid sized forwards and outside mids which this draft is stacked with as well as maybe 1 more ruckman.

A drop of 4 drafts places means:

You go from really good chance of getting a generational midfielder. We're talking possibly a Judd type player here.

to

#5 who might be a superstar, might be a 200 game A grader, or could just end up an Andrew Embley (nothing to be sneered at, but he wasn't Chris Judd) AND a gun KPD who we will find from elsewhere, anyway.

When you have pick #5 in this draft, how do you know which player to pick? If you have pick #1 then it's really obvious as he has no peer. If he ends up a dud, you still made the right pick. Take pick 5 and choose a Jaidyn Stephenson over Uniacke and you look stupid. At around that pick 5 mark, there's lots of options and it gets harder to choose correctly. Just look at last year - Tsatis, Ginbey, Phillpou. How do you know which one?

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

The club with the change in game style is trying to change the entire profile of the list. You can't do that with 1 player.

We've brought in 11 guys through the ND (including Culley) in the last two years. + Dewar and Baker.
We have 5 top 50 picks this year again.

That's a decent haul of youth (16 of them) with good picks, all who need to be given game time in the seniors to develop.

Not sure its accurate saying those who want to keep the #1 pick are wanting to change the list profile with just one player.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Guys like Sam Taylor are easier to find. We have Barrass, we have Bazzo. We will probably find another player capable of being a stand out KPD in the next few drafts. Probably post #15.

Why would you give up a really strong chance to get a generational midfielder for a player we will find anyway? It's crazy talk.

I'm not convinced Reid is that generational player, statistically it's unlikely he'll even be the best player of the draft. In saying that he's a sure thing and that itself is rare.

Agree on Sam Taylor. We draft good defenders every other year.

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[Hook461123]

If a club came to us wanting any of Gov, Darling or Gaff I reckon we’d be into it. Gov and Darling in particular could hold value to contending teams. 2nd rounders plus free up cap space for a go at English.
Would be weird seeing them in other colours but they’ll be Eagles greats forever.

 

[new breed]

Wait and See ...pretty sure WC won't finish last watch out Carlton , going to wreck your season along with a few other teams .

 

[Eastern Rangers]

We'll do five national draft picks and another two in the rookie. Perhaps a trade in there as well.

I'd prefer to go a smidge harder.

2023 I'd retire Hurn, Shuey & Nicnat & delist XON, Clark, J.Williams, West (r) & Trew (r).

I'd give one year contracts to Foley, Withers, SPS, Petch, Winder (r).

We could then retire Gaff, evaluate McGovern and Yeo on fitness. On-top of those three there is a cohort of around up to six players we could move off the main list.






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[Chump Change]

The club with the change in game style is trying to change the entire profile of the list. You can't do that with 1 player.

That's irrelevant. I'd go as far as saying silly.

It's not like you only bring in 1 player as opposed to multiple players. When you prioritise finding your top end players, you're still bringing in 5 or 6 new players every season. So you are still changing the profile of your list. You're acting as if this is relinquished altogether.

It's just rather than picks 16 and 25, you're going with picks 24 and 36. If you go have a look at all the drafts for the past 20 years, there's not much in it. Go have a look at Richmond's 3-flag profile. Most of the players are 2nd and 3rd rounders and rookie picks.

The best profile is 1 or 2 A++, 4-5 A, and the rest are solid role players. It's the top end that matters most and these players are hardest to find. Prioritise finding them and the other players will turn up from all sorts of places. You can't get an average player and turn them into a Judds and Bont. You develop role players, and draft the elite.

 

[Chump Change]

I'm not convinced Reid is that generational player, statistically it's unlikely he'll even be the best player of the draft. In saying that he's a sure thing and that itself is rare.

Agree on Sam Taylor. We draft good defenders every other year.

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I'm not saying he's a sure thing. That doesn't exist. But he's as good as 17 year we've seen. You have to take him on that. If he's a bust, so be it.

 

[WCE_phil]

We've brought in 11 guys through the ND (including Culley) in the last two years. + Dewar and Baker.
We have 5 top 50 picks this year again.

That's a decent haul of youth (16 of them) with good picks, all who need to be given game time in the seniors to develop.

Not sure its accurate saying those who want to keep the #1 pick are wanting to change the list profile with just one player.

The reality is we need 30 players over a period of 4 years at a 50% strike rate of them being top 15 players in a team to rebuild. A 50% strike rate on that is actually a good return. The rest will make up a mix of bad luck stories with injury, role players or complete busts.

Dewar has talent and baker to a lesser extent but both are a very low chance of succeeding. If not for being NGA's they would have gone undrafted and be playing wafl reserves atm. Baker may even be playing Colts as an overager.

Every single player we have picked looks good on paper but every single one has at least one major deficiency in their game at AFL level and they all need development.

I would suggest 1 player including the 2000 draft onwards has been the best player from their draft crop at pick 1 and that's Nick Riewoldt who was drafted in 2000.

People place too much emphasis on pick 1 and mostly on guys who are much further along the development path than others in their age bracket all at 18-19 years old. Players develop at different rates.

 

[DanWCE]

We'll do five national draft picks and another two in the rookie. Perhaps a trade in there as well.

I'd prefer to go a smidge harder.

2023 I'd retire Hurn, Shuey & Nicnat & delist XON, Clark, J.Williams, West (r) & Trew (r).

I'd give one year contracts to Foley, Withers, SPS, Petch, Winder (r).

We could then retire Gaff, evaluate McGovern and Yeo on fitness. On-top of those three there is a cohort of around up to six players we could move off the main list.






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Do we lose much by keeping J Williams around for an extra season to see how he develops? He's still 19 and a key tall. Feels premature giving him the flick when he hasn't had much continuity.

 

[Cuzz09]

Wait and See ...pretty sure WC won't finish last watch out Carlton , going to wreck your season along with a few other teams .

would be an amazing win if we got up this week

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[WCE_phil]

Also with government funding now approved we may see the draft starting to be even further diluted from 2025 onwards. We may only have this years and next years draft to bring in the majority of our drafted talent before seeing further heavy compromises.

 

[WCE_phil]

Do we lose much by keeping J Williams around for an extra season to see how he develops? He's still 19 and a key tall. Feels premature giving him the flick when he hasn't had much continuity.

I'd give him a 1 year contract to see what he can do with a full preseason at WAFL level. Then you make the call.

 

[Dark Sharks]

We kept Fraser for 17 years.

Surely J.Williams gets another crack considering he was decent in his first year and is yet to play in his second.

Showed more than Chesser has, I'll say that much.

 

[DanWCE]

I'd give him a 1 year contract to see what he can do with a full preseason at WAFL level. Then you make the call.

That would be my preference also. Only turned 19 in December. I'm not advocating for Large Frase levels of contracts to develop but he's worth persevering with for a little longer

 

[Godfather32]

We'll do five national draft picks and another two in the rookie. Perhaps a trade in there as well.

I'd prefer to go a smidge harder.

2023 I'd retire Hurn, Shuey & Nicnat & delist XON, Clark, J.Williams, West (r) & Trew (r).

I'd give one year contracts to Foley, Withers, SPS, Petch, Winder (r).

We could then retire Gaff, evaluate McGovern and Yeo on fitness. On-top of those three there is a cohort of around up to six players we could move off the main list.






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Waste of time talking about the rookie draft with our hit rate lately, in the last 10 rookie drafts the only player of any possible long term value whatsoever was Harry Edwards and the jury is still out on him.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Swaps i'd do for pick 1.

I'd happily do a straight swap of Sam Taylor and Pick 5 for pick 1.

Say Melbourne end up with 6 and 17. I'd want both picks and JVR.

Mcgovern comes back, has a very strong last few games and leaves for money. We get band 3 compensation.

Take Sam Taylor, pick 5, 19,20,30,37 and 48 to the draft. Sam Taylor is one of the very few players i'd offer a 6/7 year contract to in the league.

The second option in that scenario leaves us with 6,17,19,20,30,37,48 and JVR. JVR will likely only end up a being a great second tall forward but I would take that with Darling only a couple of years away from retirement.

Give me an A grader and 6 shots in this draft and i'd be very happy.
Or a likely B grader who could get better than that and 7 shots in the draft.

Both scenarios give the club the ability to remove most of the dead wood all at once.

Hurn, Shuey, McGovern, Nicnat gone due to retirement.
Clark, Exxon, Rotham, Witherden, Foley, West, Winder.

Nicnat kept on in a role at the club as a development and ruck coach even if it means delisting him and putting him on the rookie list, I doubt someone else is picking up the contract tab.

Then in 2024 drag as much of our 2025 draft stock into next year and start going hard at free agents with the retirement of Gaff.

Good post. Nothing like a desperate buyer to have to part with a player of need when the seller is reluctant. As the saying goes, if you want quality, you need to give up quality.

Like you, I am a big fan of Taylor. I have been since the carnival when WA had Sam and Naughton as the KPD posts. Unlike another poster, I cannot flippantly say that players the quality of Taylor are easy to find. Not sure where he's been looking but the No 1 contested player is not found anywhere. I would dearly love to reunite Naughton and Taylor so a FA pitch is well worth it.

JvR plus both Freo and Dee's R1 (6 and 17) is more a lineball call. I guess with JvR we get to shape the draft earlier at 6 and not need to go a KPF. I am seeing some decent talls potentially in the early second round so it might work. JvR is an interesting call. If he doesn't work out as a KPF, he did pretty well at CHB for Claremont in his draft year.

In terms of moving on all of Clark, Exxon, Rotham, Witherden, Foley, West and Winder, I am there or might even go the delist -> rookie route for a couple just to bolster the WAFL team. Also needing to keep some players that are only depth but you need to move a few on again in 2024. See if we can keep our interstate boys in Exxon and Witherden as Beagles (surely there are some jobs at the club that can add to a PT WAFL salary) and keep Witherden and Clark as rookies.

 

[WCE_phil]

Good post. Nothing like a desperate buyer to have to part with a player of need when the seller is reluctant. As the saying goes, if you want quality, you need to give up quality.

Like you, I am a big fan of Taylor. I have been since the carnival when WA had Sam and Naughton as the KPD posts. Unlike another poster, I cannot flippantly say that players the quality of Taylor are easy to find. Not sure where he's been looking but the No 1 contested player is not found anywhere. I would dearly love to reunite Naughton and Taylor so a FA pitch is well worth it.

JvR plus both Freo and Dee's R1 (6 and 17) is more a lineball call. I guess with JvR we get to shape the draft earlier at 6 and not need to go a KPF. I am seeing some decent talls potentially in the early second round so it might work. JvR is an interesting call. If he doesn't work out as a KPF, he did pretty well at CHB for Claremont in his draft year.

In terms of moving on all of Clark, Exxon, Rotham, Witherden, Foley, West and Winder, I am there or might even go the delist -> rookie route for a couple just to bolster the WAFL team. Also needing to keep some players that are only depth but you need to move a few on again in 2024. See if we can keep our interstate boys in Exxon and Witherden as Beagles (surely there are some jobs at the club that can add to a PT WAFL salary) and keep Witherden and Clark as rookies.

The only difference I would make would be to Potentially keep Foley as a re-rookie instead of Clark. Not for the sake of the WAFL side but because of the list I think he's the only one who's still a genuine chance of playing at a decent level at AFL. Maybe I have a soft spot for him.

Here is the base principle. If you can get an A grade player at 24 years old or under that compliments your list and still keep a top 5 pick in the draft then no matter who is in the draft i'd take it.

Even if you go well I want 2001 and I want to take Judd at pick 1 with hindsight. OK, then the same thing works the other way too. I'll take 3rd place in the 1998 rising star in Warren Tredrea and with pick 5 I'll draft Jimmy Bartel.

Or even still I want the 2009 draft and at pick 1 take Dustin Martin. Ok, at pick 5 I'll draft Ben Cunnington and I'll take David Mundy from the 2005 3rd place in the rising star.

Now If anyone is telling me they would take Judd over the combined Tredrea and Bartel or even Martin over Cunnington and Mundy when you are basically building a talent base from scratch pretty much every recruiter would think you're an idiot.

Now those are say the 2 huge generational talents who have Both won brownlows, flags and norm smiths. But neither went pick 1 and shit if it were West Coast after the drug saga and we took Martin, he would have been delisted before becoming an elite player with all his off field shit.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Do we lose much by keeping J Williams around for an extra season to see how he develops? He's still 19 and a key tall. Feels premature giving him the flick when he hasn't had much continuity.

Then rookie him. I personally don't rate him, skillset and athletic profile is lacking.

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[Chris_6678]

Id be keeping Trew over Winder atm. With Shuey out we can get more of a look in at Trew to see if he is worth persisting with.

 

[YeoGabbaGabba]

Swaps i'd do for pick 1.

I'd happily do a straight swap of Sam Taylor and Pick 5 for pick 1.

Say Melbourne end up with 6 and 17. I'd want both picks and JVR.

Mcgovern comes back, has a very strong last few games and leaves for money. We get band 3 compensation.

Take Sam Taylor, pick 5, 19,20,30,37 and 48 to the draft. Sam Taylor is one of the very few players i'd offer a 6/7 year contract to in the league.

The second option in that scenario leaves us with 6,17,19,20,30,37,48 and JVR. JVR will likely only end up a being a great second tall forward but I would take that with Darling only a couple of years away from retirement.

Give me an A grader and 6 shots in this draft and i'd be very happy.
Or a likely B grader who could get better than that and 7 shots in the draft.

Both scenarios give the club the ability to remove most of the dead wood all at once.

Hurn, Shuey, McGovern, Nicnat gone due to retirement.
Clark, Exxon, Rotham, Witherden, Foley, West, Winder.

Nicnat kept on in a role at the club as a development and ruck coach even if it means delisting him and putting him on the rookie list, I doubt someone else is picking up the contract tab.

Then in 2024 drag as much of our 2025 draft stock into next year and start going hard at free agents with the retirement of Gaff.

Don't mind that Demons deal but highly doubt they'd be willing to part with JVR as he's just re-signed as well as their key forward stocks being, meh