List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Wormkilla]

When you start with this - For once Suma is right - and then go on to call Eagles fans soft, it doesn't merit much of a response to be honest.

And I still think you're a Hawthorn troll based on your "grammar error" and this:
View attachment 1671712

Why don't you have a look at everything else I've posted?

Was that you booing Rioli and JHF on the weekend?

 

[Godfather32]

Why don't you have a look at everything else I've posted?

Was that you booing Rioli and JHF on the weekend?

If it's all as good as your little rant from a few minutes ago I'm good thanks

 

[Keys]

Why don't you have a look at everything else I've posted?

Was that you booing Rioli and JHF on the weekend?

I had a quick look through your posting history

For someone who espoused the Hawthorn model of trading out premiership players for shitty draft picks you’ve been having a fair old crack at how rubbish they are in the Hawthorn tanking thread on the main board

 

[Wormkilla]

He's not right and you're being a little Nancy bitch.

The crisis is not a crisis. Crisies are for Karens.

But why are we in this position?

Because we built a list over 10 years to win flags, and we won one. When you're in the flag window, you not only get late draft picks but you trade for the now. You have to strike while the iron is hot. So 10 years without a top 10 draft pick is going to have an effect.

We could have traded out Gaff and Gov a few years back (and I strongly suggested we do it), but we didn't. The biggest issue we had/have is not the list state now but the fact that we didn't realise the game plan was a bust while we had a list capable of winning another flag.

Right now, we're on a full rebuild. We haven't made the same mistake Hawks made (drafting Mitchell, O'meara, Wingard), or Richmond (Taranto and Hopper), we've accepted this list can't compete and we're turning it over in draft rather than the trade table.

Shuey, Nic, Gov, Yeo. All on last legs. Almost no trade value so may as well have them to guide youth.

We're doing fine, just some people are so entitled they think they're above supporting a side that has to pay its penance down the bottom.

We're rebuilding and probably on target. It's all good.

You sound aggressively in denial to honest.

Of course you try to keep the window open but we kept hold of the old guard for too long, and the contracts we handed out to the likes of Gov, Gaff were irresponsible. Two more years for Nic Nat - irresponsible. The issue is definitely the list. 22 and younger - there is very little to get excited about holistically apart from our recent draftees. Our youth is extremely weak. Maybe one of the weakest in the comp. You're deluded if you cant see the list is a mess. Absolutely deluded.

Kelly has probably been our best mid for the last two years, but to give up so much? Again, irresponsible and its absolutely killed us.

You exemplify the problem with the eagles supporter base overall. House is burning down but nothing to see here - lets turn on anyone who suggests otherwise and punch on at the Camfield after the game after a few mid strengths.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I would like Simpson, Trev and the boiz club sacked as much as anyone.

But "out by the bye" despite having another whole year and a half on his contract (or was it two? I can't remember) is a level I won't go to.

Silly use of coin. Sack the board, Trev and the S&C people (who we didn’t sack last time) sure, but there's nothing worse than paying for an ex senior coach to twiddle his thumbs for 2 years.

 

[bzparkes]

You sound aggressively in denial to honest.

Of course you try to keep the window open but we kept hold of the old guard for too long, and the contracts we handed out to the likes of Gov, Gaff were irresponsible. Two more years for Nic Nat - irresponsible. The issue is definitely the list. 22 and younger - there is very little to get excited about holistically apart from our recent draftees. Our youth is extremely weak. Maybe one of the weakest in the comp. You're deluded if you cant see the list is a mess. Absolutely deluded.

Kelly has probably been our best mid for the last two years, but to give up so much? Again, irresponsible and its absolutely killed us.

You exemplify the problem with the eagles supporter base overall. House is burning down but nothing to see here - lets turn on anyone who suggests otherwise and punch on at the Camfield after the game after a few mid strengths.

7 of the last 10 premierships won by these 3 teams.

AFL system appears to be working as intended, no?

 

[Godfather32]

View attachment 1671749

7 of the last 10 premierships won by these 3 teams.

AFL system appears to be working as intended, no?

Stop being soft!
You're supposed to have a giant temper tantrum because we're crap even though we're rebuilding the list and knew we'd be crap before the start of the season.

 

[bzparkes]

Stop being soft!
You're supposed to have a giant temper tantrum because we're crap even though we're rebuilding the list and knew we'd be crap before the start of the season.

You're right, sack everyone.

Interestingly, the only premiership team of the past decade currently in the is Melbourne, sitting in third. I expect Geelong to be back in there but the rest are looking flaky.

 

[new breed]

I would like Simpson, Trev and the boiz club sacked as much as anyone.

But "out by the bye" despite having another whole year and a half on his contract (or was it two? I can't remember) is a level I won't go to.

Silly use of coin. Sack the board, Trev and the S&C people (who we didn’t sack last time) sure, but there's nothing worse than paying for an ex senior coach to twiddle his thumbs for 2 years.

A Simpson is not a thumb twiddler , when captain of NM had a business also with no other then P Bell !!
Very capable chap , next move after coaching could be whatever he wants .
Not his fault but everything comes back his way just needs to duck and continue in a positive way . WC have looked competitive against the odds .

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

He's not right and you're being a little Nancy bitch.

The crisis is not a crisis. Crisies are for Karens.

But why are we in this position?

Because we built a list over 10 years to win flags, and we won one. When you're in the flag window, you not only get late draft picks but you trade for the now. You have to strike while the iron is hot. So 10 years without a top 10 draft pick is going to have an effect.

We could have traded out Gaff and Gov a few years back (and I strongly suggested we do it), but we didn't. The biggest issue we had/have is not the list state now but the fact that we didn't realise the game plan was a bust while we had a list capable of winning another flag.

Right now, we're on a full rebuild. We haven't made the same mistake Hawks made (drafting Mitchell, O'meara, Wingard), or Richmond (Taranto and Hopper), we've accepted this list can't compete and we're turning it over in draft rather than the trade table.

Shuey, Nic, Gov, Yeo. All on last legs. Almost no trade value so may as well have them to guide youth.

We're doing fine, just some people are so entitled they think they're above supporting a side that has to pay its penance down the bottom.

We're rebuilding and probably on target. It's all good.

I agree that the trade value on the veterans has declined so badly that it is not worth trying to trade them.

But I think you are delusional if you think “it is all good”. It definately isn’t. Look at the results from our drafting and development departments, our list management and contract negotiation departments and the S&C departments. To say we are below League average is an understatement. There are lots of areas where massive improvement and personal changes are required. It is definately not all good.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Retire -
Hurn
Shuey
Naitanui

Delist -
O’Neill
Foley

Retain -
Cripps (1 Year)
McGovern (1 Year - but he’ll want 2)
SPS
Waterman
Culley

In the Gun -
Clark
West
Petrucelle
Witherden (closest to being retained I think)
J.Williams

So 5 right away with another 5 in the gun.

Reality probably sees it land around 8-10 with maybe a wantaway.

5-6 in the draft plus maybe a free agent and a trade?

I'd retain J.Williams as he's a young tall so they take a while, Witherden 100% retain for mine and leaning towards retaining for Clark, Petrol.

West is an absolute delist, I'm rarely harsh on players but he's just not at AFL level.

 

[ziad]

I agree that the trade value on the veterans has declined so badly that it is not worth trying to trade them.

But I think you are delusional if you think “it is all good”. It definately isn’t. Look at the results from our drafting and development departments, our list management and contract negotiation departments and the S&C departments. To say we are below League average is an understatement. There are lots of areas where massive improvement and personal changes are required. It is definately not all good.

Injuries may or may not be accidental, but our current position is no accident. It is strategically thought through and planned.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I was p***ed at Simpson last year. But now when I look at the club I just see system failures and gross underperformance everywhere at the club across all departments. When you look at the drafting in particular in recent years it is hard to blame the coach for the decline. Which is not to say necessarily that Simpson is the best person to lead us from here. That is a different question. But it is not mostly his fault that we are where we are.

Getting rid of Nisbett is the key thing. Having somebody come in to run things who is not mates with anybody, is not conflicted and has no need to defend previous decisions or existing systems that are not working, feels no need to make current decisions and positions consistent with the old ones in order to not admit that the previous decisions and positions failed and/or were wrong. Somebody who is not in awe of of the 2018 premiership players, doesn’t call them “legacy players” as if they are walking gods and just treats them as another employee they have to manage.

I think a lot of problems get solved if we can get rid of Nisbett and give his successor a mandate to review everything and make whatever changes are needed.

 

[bzparkes]

Injuries may or may not be accidental, but our current position is no accident. It is strategically thought through and planned.

I agree.

I reckon the management of the club would be secretly happy of the spot we've found ourselves in.

1. Stated they want to rebuild - This requires the best top-end talent available to push for a flag.

2. Brought in a new S&C coach, with a plan to push players as far as they can to see if they 'break'. Helps with list decisions on undurable/older players, plus the younger players build their base much faster than under the previous program. At worst, everyone is far fitter, which is evidenced by the players actually running out games this year, despite big scores against them.

3. The raft of injuries actually ties the clubs hands in regards to 'tanking'(not that I believe WCE would achieve attempt this to begin with) and gives them a plausible excuse for the lack of improvement in ladder position.

4. Less vets on game day means less players falling into old habits of the chip-chip gamestyle, which they appeared to be falling into in the first couple of rounds. Now that it's mostly younger players/players who didn't spend a long time with that old style, the implementation of the new plan appears to be moving faster.

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but I'd be entirely unsurprised do learn that the club wouldn't be particularly unhappy with the current state of affairs. Going to have access to the best picks this draft, new game plan is clearly being implemented and, besides a quarter fadeout in every game, the team is still competitive in all other metrics, especially late in games.

Yes, you hate to lose, but everything else appears to be falling into place.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I really don't see us finishing last unless Hawks decide to actually win some games and our injury list stays this bad all year. We're likely to get a bunch of depth back after the bye and there's at least a couple of games we'll probably win (North at Home and Freo in the derby).

Hawks will have three wins before the bye and I see them finishing above both us & North.

Depth will prevent floggings, quality will get us wins. The draw gets harder after the bye for us with only really North and Fremantle looking like probable wins.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Pencil May 21 into your calendars. We could get flogged by the Hawks down in Tassie or they could pull an all time tank job for the ages.

I think Hawthorn will beat Fremantle next week. They are pretty much the worst side in the competition at the moment with mounting injuries.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Rowan18]

Hawks will have three wins before the bye and I see them finishing above both us & North.

Depth will prevent floggings, quality will get us wins. The draw gets harder after the bye for us with only really North and Fremantle looking like probable wins.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

A lot of it will come down to when we play them in Tassie. Dare I call it the Harley Reed Cup?

It would be pretty funny if North actually manage to finish last for the three-peat of spoons. They've really faded after a good start.

 

[BOND 007]

You sound aggressively in denial to honest.

Of course you try to keep the window open but we kept hold of the old guard for too long, and the contracts we handed out to the likes of Gov, Gaff were irresponsible. Two more years for Nic Nat - irresponsible. The issue is definitely the list. 22 and younger - there is very little to get excited about holistically apart from our recent draftees. Our youth is extremely weak. Maybe one of the weakest in the comp. You're deluded if you cant see the list is a mess. Absolutely deluded.

Kelly has probably been our best mid for the last two years, but to give up so much? Again, irresponsible and its absolutely killed us.

You exemplify the problem with the eagles supporter base overall. House is burning down but nothing to see here - lets turn on anyone who suggests otherwise and punch on at the Camfield after the game after a few mid strengths.

There's so much rubbish in the post regarding "irresponsibility of contracts" that I tossed up whether to respond or let it go through to the keeper.
I decided on the former.

 

[Obeanie1]

View attachment 1671749

7 of the last 10 premierships won by these 3 teams.

AFL system appears to be working as intended, no?

Maybe someone should explain this to Sumich.

No doubt we have under performed since 2018 and last year was terrible.

This season we have admitted and embraced the rebuild. We arent getting flogged every quarter just cant put together 4 quarter efforts.

 

[Obeanie1]

I was p***ed at Simpson last year. But now when I look at the club I just see system failures and gross underperformance everywhere at the club across all departments. When you look at the drafting in particular in recent years it is hard to blame the coach for the decline. Which is not to say necessarily that Simpson is the best person to lead us from here. That is a different question. But it is not mostly his fault that we are where we are.

Getting rid of Nisbett is the key thing. Having somebody come in to run things who is not mates with anybody, is not conflicted and has no need to defend previous decisions or existing systems that are not working, feels no need to make current decisions and positions consistent with the old ones in order to not admit that the previous decisions and positions failed and/or were wrong. Somebody who is not in awe of of the 2018 premiership players, doesn’t call them “legacy players” as if they are walking gods and just treats them as another employee they have to manage.

I think a lot of problems get solved if we can get rid of Nisbett and give his successor a mandate to review everything and make whatever changes are needed.

What a negative nancy you are.

 

[Goroyals22]

I really don't see us finishing last unless Hawks decide to actually win some games and our injury list stays this bad all year. We're likely to get a bunch of depth back after the bye and there's at least a couple of games we'll probably win (North at Home and Freo in the derby).

A side thats tanking isn’t the best clearance side in the league. The hawks biggest issue is that mitch lewis has been injured who is their best forward and when he is back and up and going they will win more than enough to avoid the spoon.

 

[bzparkes]

A side thats tanking isn’t the best clearance side in the league. The hawks biggest issue is that mitch lewis has been injured who is their best forward and when he is back and up and going they will win more than enough to avoid the spoon.

No but questions need to be asked when they send their best defender, and captain, to the forward line when goals are getting kicked on them when in front during red-time.

 

[amazingjoshy]

I think Hawthorn will beat Fremantle next week. They are pretty much the worst side in the competition at the moment with mounting injuries.

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Just imagine if Freo traded away Reid.....to Melbourne

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

What a negative nancy you are.

When things are not working you have to willing to recognise it and try and improve.

We won two games last year. We may well only win two games this year. We had players running around with beer guts last year. We had players going to nightclubs in the middle of the Covid insanity. Our drafting must be close to the worst in the league over the last 10 years. We have not come even close to getting par value, let alone winning, on any of the long term contracts we were throwing around like confetti for senior players.

You can’t just sit there and pretend that no change is needed.