List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[FKASC]

Lucky as in Richmond got eliminated by Mason Cox lol. More like we gave ourselves a chance every year but needed things to align.
At no stage were we the clear best team in the comp.

Ladder finishes under Simmo:
18
17
9
2
6
8
2
5
5
9

Those rookie selections were unbelievable and it's pure luck they fell to us and worked out.

We were the best team in the comp in patches but then it would be undone with a super disappointing away loss in a crunch game.

Too many losses where we failed to get out of 1st gear to be considered a dominant team of the era.

For example looking a million bucks in 2015 only to fail to show up in the GF, then receive consecutive away floggings from Hawthorn at the MCG, Sydney at the SCG and Geelong at KP to begin the next season.

Then departing the 2016 and 2017 final series without a whimper (the SF loss to GWS was diabolical).

The difference between our best and worst always seemed like an leadership issue, but something clicked in 2018 and our worst didn’t eventuate in the same way.

2018 was an anomaly

 

[dinnaz]

Nah I don't buy it. We pantsed Richmond that year and in fact we had them beat a few more times in the period until it rained. In dry conditions our game plan thwarted their dirty ball 🗑 but once it got wet and slippery was when their game beat ours. GF was dry as a bone and I'm confident we win it comfortably.

I'd rate our ability to identify potential rather than luck, wedid it 3 times, when does it stop becoming luck?

The 2018 GF rained early on, plus beating Richmond at the G is a massive difference to Optus.
The point is that during our window we were an above average side with 1 good season rather than a dominant team over 3-4 years.

Looking back over time WA prospects were underrated by the east coast. Now GC and Sydney especially have a high priority on WA talent. It's not luck we identified a good player- it's luck we had access to them late especially with our drafting style of athlete > footballer. We can't hide players like we used to.

 

[Doashuey]

The 2018 GF rained early on, plus beating Richmond at the G is a massive difference to Optus.
The point is that during our window we were an above average side with 1 good season rather than a dominant team over 3-4 years.

Looking back over time WA prospects were underrated by the east coast. Now GC and Sydney especially have a high priority on WA talent. It's not luck we identified a good player- it's luck we had access to them late especially with our drafting style of athlete > footballer. We can't hide players like we used to.

Aside from Hawks and Richmond in recent times, there really haven't been many teams that have been dominant over long periods.
Winning one flag with a cohort is the rule rather than the exception. We weren't lucky, we were good for a period, lost one and won one with some indifferent firm and a change of game plan in between.

 

[dinnaz]

Aside from Hawks and Richmond in recent times, there really haven't been many teams that have been dominant over long periods.
Winning one flag with a cohort is the rule rather than the exception. We weren't lucky, we were good for a period, lost one and won one with some indifferent firm and a change of game plan in between.

+ i'd argue that the expansion teams really nerfed any ability for teams to improve resulting in longer flag windows with poorer lists.

Hawthorn + Richmond + Sydney + Geelong + WCE have probably made up about 80% of prelim appearances for the past decade or so. The clubs with the best fixturing advantages and who aren't completely mismanaged.

I want us to be the best and like Worsfolod says - who cares if you're last now because 2nd place still hasn't won anything. From a list management perspective we have been gifted 2x years of top tier picks before our natural bottoming out period which we probably don't make the bottom 4.

I'm all for selling now and then having a period in 6 seasons (or whenever) where our core is all peaking together. Anyone over 25 that garners a top 20 pick in a trade has my blessing to go.

Nisbett and Simmo should stay to see the rough period through and keep the ship op the correct course where lesser leadership panels start scapegoating coaches & players which is the worst possible outcome.

 

[Doashuey]

+ i'd argue that the expansion teams really nerfed any ability for teams to improve resulting in longer flag windows with poorer lists.

Hawthorn + Richmond + Sydney + Geelong + WCE have probably made up about 80% of prelim appearances for the past decade or so. The clubs with the best fixturing advantages and who aren't completely mismanaged.

I want us to be the best and like Worsfolod says - who cares if you're last now because 2nd place still hasn't won anything. From a list management perspective we have been gifted 2x years of top tier picks before our natural bottoming out period which we probably don't make the bottom 4.

I'm all for selling now and then having a period in 6 seasons (or whenever) where our core is all peaking together. Anyone over 25 that garners a top 20 pick in a trade has my blessing to go.

Nisbett and Simmo should stay to see the rough period through and keep the ship op the correct course where lesser leadership panels start scapegoating coaches & players which is the worst possible outcome.

Agree with all of this except Nisbett. Really think he needs to go at the end of the year. TBH he should have handed over the reins to Vosso a couple of years ago.

 

[Keys]

For no particular reason and not one I’d be able to explain, I get Elijah Hewett vibes from this kid

 

[Keys]

It’s a bit of a simplistic view in some ways but I think Duffield has got it spot on here in relation to our last 10 games

 

[TerryFilk]

For no particular reason and not one I’d be able to explain, I get Elijah Hewett vibes from this kid

Hopefully he gets through to 19

 

[Bender_]

Koltyn

I weep for the future.

 

[chaddy22]

I know a lot are unhappy with the idea of trading our number one pick away.On footy classified it was mentioned that Harry Himmelberg is attracting offers of $900,000.He is happy to stay but GWS already have too many high paid players.If they let hin go they may end up with picks 5,7 and 8.Some say this is a deep draft.Harley Reid or three very good players.If our recruiters can't get three gems in the top 10 they are useless.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

It’s a bit of a simplistic view in some ways but I think Duffield has got it spot on here in relation to our last 10 games

I don't really agree with that assessment. The majority of the senior players already have contracts for next year whether we like it or not. It is just Shuey and Hurn who they will have to make decisions on. And there are more younger players on the list that we already know are never going to be genuine AFL quality players than we can delist in one year anyway. Many of them will still be on the list next year just because you can't turnover a dozen players in one season. So there is not going to be any series of agonising decisions to be made on borderline younger players as to whether they are good enough are not. The borderliners stay. They are way up the pecking order. We have enough players who are clearly not good enough to broom out first before we get to making decisions on the borderliners.

The club's priorities for the rest of the season is coming to some agreement with the WAFL about what they will allow us to do in order to field a more competitive WAFL side. And Simpson and co need to think about what brand or footy we are going to play next year. We have a list that is clearly bottom 4. Nothing we can do to change that in a hurry. But Simpson needs to get competitive performances out of it and stop the 100 point beltings. He needs to think about what can the players under his command execute with decent competency at this stage of their development or at their age (for the old players) and how can he work with that to cobble together a gameplan. Are we going to prioritise offence or defense? Are we going to try and score primarily from rebounds, turnovers or stoppages? There is no point trying to play a game plan we are not capable of executing at the beltings continue.

 

[bombard]

Koltyn

I weep for the future.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

A lot of players havent signed contracts yet due to the next bargaining agreement. They want to see what the salary cap is. West Coast prefers fixed contracts rather than those that raise by % of the salary cap, hence not a lot of signatures.

Maybe that's the problem. The front office refuses to budge on changing that up a bit to secure the talent.

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[Wooshaaaa]

Look at these names

Waterman
Petrevski-Seton
Shuey
Cripps
McGovern
Petruccelle
Winder
Witherden
O’Neill
Hurn
Trew
Foley
J Williams
West
Dewar
Clark
Baker
Culley

They are all officially out of contract at the end of this year with the possible exception of McGovern and Cripps, who may have re-signed

The only name I’d be annoyed at losing is Culley - the others are either potential retirements or potential delistings. It’s unlikely any are going to have rival clubs chasing them.

Bell didn’t sound worried about Culley leaving and said he expects Jai will be at the club next year. The priority was his rehab as it should be

I just hope the confidence isn’t misplaced as Culley is one player other clubs might look at as gettable. Not sure why there’s a delay as the above list proves there’s not a lot of work to do right now chasing players to ink new deals as those decisions can wait until post season

All of them bar Culley will be at the club in 3 yrs. No loss there.

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[daddy_4_eyes]

If Culley elects to leave, do we have the option to trade given he's on the rookie list?

 

[garlic munchers]

Aside from Hawks and Richmond in recent times, there really haven't been many teams that have been dominant over long periods.
Winning one flag with a cohort is the rule rather than the exception. We weren't lucky, we were good for a period, lost one and won one with some indifferent firm and a change of game plan in between.

2018, had a team with spark and run (some of that ball movement from Jetta to Ryan was breathtaking and won a GF in the final moments with quick ball use).

Then got slower in our ball movement with Simmo drinking his own bath water on the chip and possession gamestyle, Hurn became an indecisive old man at 1/2 back and we kept on (and filled) up with spuds (i.e. O'Neill, SPS, Witho etc), most of them slowish.

Speed kills in AFL and instead of targeting Ferrari's, we reminisced over Falcons.

And just to top it off, head office is full of these:



WE didn't become one of the worst teams in living memory just because we had sustained (?) success.

 

[amazingjoshy]

I know a lot are unhappy with the idea of trading our number one pick away.On footy classified it was mentioned that Harry Himmelberg is attracting offers of $900,000.He is happy to stay but GWS already have too many high paid players.If they let hin go they may end up with picks 5,7 and 8.Some say this is a deep draft.Harley Reid or three very good players.If our recruiters can't get three gems in the top 10 they are useless.

Dont think we can turn down 3 top 10s if it was offered

And that should be the line for anyone coming for pick 1, cough up 3 top 10s or don't bother asking

 

[southcoast]

Speed kills in AFL and instead of targeting Ferrari's, we reminisced over Falcons.

And while we have the two speed demons in Gaff and Sheed in the midfield will will continue to get burnt on the rebound.



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[garlic munchers]

I don't really agree with that assessment. The majority of the senior players already have contracts for next year whether we like it or not. It is just Shuey and Hurn who they will have to make decisions on. And there are more younger players on the list that we already know are never going to be genuine AFL quality players than we can delist in one year anyway. Many of them will still be on the list next year just because you can't turnover a dozen players in one season. So there is not going to be any series of agonising decisions to be made on borderline younger players as to whether they are good enough are not. The borderliners stay. They are way up the pecking order. We have enough players who are clearly not good enough to broom out first before we get to making decisions on the borderliners.

The club's priorities for the rest of the season is coming to some agreement with the WAFL about what they will allow us to do in order to field a more competitive WAFL side. And Simpson and co need to think about what brand or footy we are going to play next year. We have a list that is clearly bottom 4. Nothing we can do to change that in a hurry. But Simpson needs to get competitive performances out of it and stop the 100 point beltings. He needs to think about what can the players under his command execute with decent competency at this stage of their development or at their age (for the old players) and how can he work with that to cobble together a gameplan. Are we going to prioritise offence or defense? Are we going to try and score primarily from rebounds, turnovers or stoppages? There is no point trying to play a game plan we are not capable of executing at the beltings continue.

Only gamestyle that going to stop the beltings is:



and more:

 

[DanWCE]

It’s a bit of a simplistic view in some ways but I think Duffield has got it spot on here in relation to our last 10 games

At around the 30sec mark of that video they shot footage of a stoppage training drill involving fast handballs in traffic which eventually end up with Dom Sheed moving into space and wheeling around to his right hand side. Good to see we train as we play

Surely we could structure up so blokes like him can use their preferred boot.

 

[Deepthroat]

We were the best team in the comp in patches but then it would be undone with a super disappointing away loss in a crunch game.

Too many losses where we failed to get out of 1st gear to be considered a dominant team of the era.

For example looking a million bucks in 2015 only to fail to show up in the GF, then receive consecutive away floggings from Hawthorn at the MCG, Sydney at the SCG and Geelong at KP to begin the next season.

Then departing the 2016 and 2017 final series without a whimper (the SF loss to GWS was diabolical).

The difference between our best and worst always seemed like an leadership issue, but something clicked in 2018 and our worst didn’t eventuate in the same way.

2018 was an anomaly

The performance in the 2017 Elimination Final v Port has hardly going out without a whimper.

 

[mattyc75]

2018, had a team with spark and run (some of that ball movement from Jetta to Ryan was breathtaking and won a GF in the final moments with quick ball use).

Then got slower in our ball movement with Simmo drinking his own bath water on the chip and possession gamestyle, Hurn became an indecisive old man at 1/2 back and we kept on (and filled) up with spuds (i.e. O'Neill, SPS, Witho etc), most of them slowish.

Speed kills in AFL and instead of targeting Ferrari's, we reminisced over Falcons.

And just to top it off, head office is full of these:

View attachment 1718012

WE didn't become one of the worst teams in living memory just because we had sustained (?) success.

Well we did draft petch...

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[Deepthroat]

In 2018, we may not have mad the killer mids of the league but our front 6 was very much top shelf that year.

Kennedy, Darling, LeCras and Ryan were highly dangerous/productive and in the case of the first three were a well oiled unit in terms of playing with one another. I'd be surprised to see another combination put up as stronger.

Our back 6 was equally as impressive. Gov, Hurn, Shepp were absolute rocks. Duggan and Barrass were very strong younger types. Again, it would be difficult to find many stronger units than that. EDIT: Forgot the run and creative/damaging disposal of Jetta too.

 

[Woutizmoo]

re the grand final, mason cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

knocking richmond out etc - Eagles coaching staff preferred to get Richmond in the Grand Final.
The comment I remember from Simmo at the time or just after was 'We feel like we matched up better against them'. I remember Yeo killed Dusty at optus earlier that year, and seeing as we'd just lost Shepherd we didn't really have a good match up for DeGoey (God bless Schoey deciding the play the best game he'd ever play).

Richmond already having GF experience would have counted for a bit but we'll never know.

Ah the memories. hopefully only another one in the next 7 years

 

[darksquare]

Looking back over time WA prospects were underrated by the east coast. Now GC and Sydney especially have a high priority on WA talent. It's not luck we identified a good player- it's luck we had access to them late especially with our drafting style of athlete > footballer. We can't hide players like we used to.

We drafted athletes over footballers, late in the draft? Athletes such as… Jeremy McGovern and Matt Priddis?



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