List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Godfather32]

That file would be too small to post

I think you missed the reference

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Our second is probably the right price, but second rounders don't have as much value these days with all the academy and F/S players.

Would rather keep yeo knowing we could possibly get a couple more years out of him than a 30+ Pick which would probably end up a dud with our track record of second rounder selections

 

[CountryLad]

Would rather keep yeo knowing we could possibly get a couple more years out of him than a 30+ Pick which would probably end up a dud with our track record of second rounder selections

Going to need to get some of those second and third rounds picks right or it’s a Game of Thrones length winter we are looking at. Rebuilding through the draft won’t be just all round one picks.

 

[thebutterflyeffect]

We have 3 premiership in the AFL.

No, because when Tassie come in, it will still be the AFL, not the VFL.

Still a reductive argument. Like it or not we can't change history and the AFL is an extension of the VFL competition. If you're arguing that the AFL in the early 90s with 1 or 2 interstate teams is more similar to the AFL today then the VFL in the late 80s then we just have to agree to disagree. The name is just semantics in my opinion.

 

[dinnaz]

Going to need to get some of those second and third rounds picks right or it’s a Game of Thrones length winter we are looking at. Rebuilding through the draft won’t be just all round one picks.

Looking at most of the good teams over the last decade it's all a glut of top 15 picks as a core and more importantly a great top end from picks #1-5. Also these are players that have "succeeded" with a hit rate of maybe 75%. That's probably 10x top 15 picks with 5x being top 5 picks.

Melb
#3 Jackson
#12 Pickett
#4 Oliver
#2 Petracca
#3 Brayshaw
#9 Salem

Rich
#15 Rioli
#9 vlastuin
#15 Ellis
#3 Martin
#2 Cotchin
#13 Riewoldt

Haw
#12 Rioli
#3 Ellis
#14 Birchall
#2 Roughead
#5 Franklin
#1 Hodge

NM themselves who should be better than they have shown already have:
#3 Sheezel
#4 Wardlaw
#3 Phillips
#13 Powell
#8 Thomas
#4 Davies-Uniacke
#12 Simpkin
#8 McDonald

Considering another year or two of top 4 picks, to me this looks like it can be a stacked list if they can develop players well.

------------
WCE Mk4 Build...

#9 Ginbey
#14 Hewett
#14 Chesser

Even if we hide players, get a few draft steals and trade in missing pieces we are missing legitimate star power. The maths suggest we likely need to be looking at another 11ish top 15 picks with 5 being top 5
What I see likely is that we lose our nerve and peak a bit like 2011-2013 where we win most games at home and make finals but aren't a threat.

 

[ziad]

Looking at most of the good teams over the last decade it's all a glut of top 15 picks as a core and more importantly a great top end from picks #1-5. Also these are players that have "succeeded" with a hit rate of maybe 75%. That's probably 10x top 15 picks with 5x being top 5 picks.

Melb
#3 Jackson
#12 Pickett
#4 Oliver
#2 Petracca
#3 Brayshaw
#9 Salem

Rich
#15 Rioli
#9 vlastuin
#15 Ellis
#3 Martin
#2 Cotchin
#13 Riewoldt

Haw
#12 Rioli
#3 Ellis
#14 Birchall
#2 Roughead
#5 Franklin
#1 Hodge

NM themselves who should be better than they have shown already have:
#3 Sheezel
#4 Wardlaw
#3 Phillips
#13 Powell
#8 Thomas
#4 Davies-Uniacke
#12 Simpkin
#8 McDonald

Considering another year or two of top 4 picks, to me this looks like it can be a stacked list if they can develop players well.

------------
WCE Mk4 Build...

#9 Ginbey
#14 Hewett
#14 Chesser

Even if we hide players, get a few draft steals and trade in missing pieces we are missing legitimate star power. The maths suggest we likely need to be looking at another 11ish top 15 picks with 5 being top 5
What I see likely is that we lose our nerve and peak a bit like 2011-2013 where we win most games at home and make finals but aren't a threat.

Spot on the best win - what a revolation


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[FKASC]

Rich
#15 Rioli
#9 vlastuin
#15 Ellis
#3 Martin
#2 Cotchin
#13 Riewoldt

Not sure how much Daniel Rioli and Brandon Ellis contributed to Richmond’s flags tbh

Peripheral involvement at most

 

[dinnaz]

Spot on the best win - what a revolation

*Revolution

More along the lines of copycat the best. I think we have a good club with decent development allowing us to be ahead of the curve but it just shows how far away we are from being legitimate contenders.
Splitting picks should not be our best option considering a modest team can pick up a 10-15 player every year.

 

[WCE_phil]

1993 + 2000?

93 is the only year where the premier was confirmed to have breached the salary cap.

 

[twce13]

Looking at most of the good teams over the last decade it's all a glut of top 15 picks as a core and more importantly a great top end from picks #1-5. Also these are players that have "succeeded" with a hit rate of maybe 75%. That's probably 10x top 15 picks with 5x being top 5 picks.

Melb
#3 Jackson
#12 Pickett
#4 Oliver
#2 Petracca
#3 Brayshaw
#9 Salem

Rich
#15 Rioli
#9 vlastuin
#15 Ellis
#3 Martin
#2 Cotchin
#13 Riewoldt

Haw
#12 Rioli
#3 Ellis
#14 Birchall
#2 Roughead
#5 Franklin
#1 Hodge

NM themselves who should be better than they have shown already have:
#3 Sheezel
#4 Wardlaw
#3 Phillips
#13 Powell
#8 Thomas
#4 Davies-Uniacke
#12 Simpkin
#8 McDonald

Considering another year or two of top 4 picks, to me this looks like it can be a stacked list if they can develop players well.

------------
WCE Mk4 Build...

#9 Ginbey
#14 Hewett
#14 Chesser

Even if we hide players, get a few draft steals and trade in missing pieces we are missing legitimate star power. The maths suggest we likely need to be looking at another 11ish top 15 picks with 5 being top 5
What I see likely is that we lose our nerve and peak a bit like 2011-2013 where we win most games at home and make finals but aren't a threat.

plenty of ways to skin a cat.

eagles 2018
sheed - teens pick
shuey - teens pick
duggan - teens pick
veneables - teen pick
JK and marsten the only top 5 picks

the rest later picks.

(gaff and NN other high picks, but not technically in the flag team)

Geelong and Eagles are both examples of teams who have been highly relevant the last two decades without being overly reliant on high draft picks.
good list management is much more then access to high draft picks.

otherwise carlton, gws and gcs would be unstoppable at this point.

 

[CountryLad]

Looking at most of the good teams over the last decade it's all a glut of top 15 picks as a core and more importantly a great top end from picks #1-5. Also these are players that have "succeeded" with a hit rate of maybe 75%. That's probably 10x top 15 picks with 5x being top 5 picks.

Melb
#3 Jackson
#12 Pickett
#4 Oliver
#2 Petracca
#3 Brayshaw
#9 Salem

Rich
#15 Rioli
#9 vlastuin
#15 Ellis
#3 Martin
#2 Cotchin
#13 Riewoldt

Haw
#12 Rioli
#3 Ellis
#14 Birchall
#2 Roughead
#5 Franklin
#1 Hodge

NM themselves who should be better than they have shown already have:
#3 Sheezel
#4 Wardlaw
#3 Phillips
#13 Powell
#8 Thomas
#4 Davies-Uniacke
#12 Simpkin
#8 McDonald

Considering another year or two of top 4 picks, to me this looks like it can be a stacked list if they can develop players well.

------------
WCE Mk4 Build...

#9 Ginbey
#14 Hewett
#14 Chesser

Even if we hide players, get a few draft steals and trade in missing pieces we are missing legitimate star power. The maths suggest we likely need to be looking at another 11ish top 15 picks with 5 being top 5
What I see likely is that we lose our nerve and peak a bit like 2011-2013 where we win most games at home and make finals but aren't a threat.

Could find plenty of examples to show that sides don’t just build through the draft using the 1st round.

 

[dinnaz]

Not sure how much Daniel Rioli and Brandon Ellis contributed to Richmond’s flags tbh

Peripheral involvement at most

Two of their better players in that peroid considering most of the squad were average roleplayers. Rioli in particular is really good off the back flank currently but was always a good fwd.

 

[dinnaz]

93 is the only year where the premier was confirmed to have breached the salary cap.

In addition to
2001
2002
2003
2005
2012

 

[bUCKET__]

plenty of ways to skin a cat.

eagles 2018
sheed - teens pick
shuey - teens pick
duggan - teens pick
veneables - teen pick
JK and marsten the only top 5 picks

the rest later picks.

(gaff and NN other high picks, but not technically in the flag team)

Geelong and Eagles are both examples of teams who have been highly relevant the last two decades without being overly reliant on high draft picks.
good list management is much more then access to high draft picks.

otherwise carlton, gws and gcs would be unstoppable at this point.

Gave up a teen pick for Redden too. Probably adds supports your point about list management more than drafting.

 

[dinnaz]

plenty of ways to skin a cat.

eagles 2018
sheed - teens pick
shuey - teens pick
duggan - teens pick
veneables - teen pick
JK and marsten the only top 5 picks

the rest later picks.

(gaff and NN other high picks, but not technically in the flag team)

Geelong and Eagles are both examples of teams who have been highly relevant the last two decades without being overly reliant on high draft picks.
good list management is much more then access to high draft picks.

otherwise carlton, gws and gcs would be unstoppable at this point.

Geelong play with the best fixturing advantage in the league. They should Adding the homesick has kept them afloat somewhat and TBH have been not quite good enough for the last decade minus 2022 where they had a good run into finals.

I would say we get good fixturing too. Should win 10 home games a season which results in us having moderate results year to year, never really bottoming out.

We honestly got lucky in 2018 with good form into finals. Most of the surrounding years we were top 4 or thereabouts but still not quite good enough to have a dominant dynasty.

Our legs up were Kennedy + Masten. A draft bargain in Darling (a priority pick along with Shuey) and trade bargain in Yeo.

McGovern as a rookie from nowhere likely wont happen again, but ill give the club credit there and the various trades in were good management (not Wellingham) but we had a really strong top end already in place.

 

[Lazzas]

Geelong play with the best fixturing advantage in the league. They should Adding the homesick has kept them afloat somewhat and TBH have been not quite good enough for the last decade minus 2022 where they had a good run into finals.

I would say we get good fixturing too. Should win 10 home games a season which results in us having moderate results year to year, never really bottoming out.

We honestly got lucky in 2018 with good form into finals. Most of the surrounding years we were top 4 or thereabouts but still not quite good enough to have a dominant dynasty.

Our legs up were Kennedy + Masten. A draft bargain in Darling (a priority pick along with Shuey) and trade bargain in Yeo.

McGovern as a rookie from nowhere likely wont happen again, but ill give the club credit there and the various trades in were good management (not Wellingham) but we had a really strong top end already in place.

And Dangerfield went pick 10 the year Eagles picked Masten at 3.

 

[wadistance]

And Dangerfield went pick 10 the year Eagles picked Masten at 3.

Won the same amount of premierships too

 

[Obeanie1]

Going to need to get some of those second and third rounds picks right or it’s a Game of Thrones length winter we are looking at. Rebuilding through the draft won’t be just all round one picks.

Looking at most of the good teams over the last decade it's all a glut of top 15 picks as a core and more importantly a great top end from picks #1-5. Also these are players that have "succeeded" with a hit rate of maybe 75%. That's probably 10x top 15 picks with 5x being top 5 picks.

Melb
#3 Jackson
#12 Pickett
#4 Oliver
#2 Petracca
#3 Brayshaw
#9 Salem

Rich
#15 Rioli
#9 vlastuin
#15 Ellis
#3 Martin
#2 Cotchin
#13 Riewoldt

Haw
#12 Rioli
#3 Ellis
#14 Birchall
#2 Roughead
#5 Franklin
#1 Hodge

NM themselves who should be better than they have shown already have:
#3 Sheezel
#4 Wardlaw
#3 Phillips
#13 Powell
#8 Thomas
#4 Davies-Uniacke
#12 Simpkin
#8 McDonald

Considering another year or two of top 4 picks, to me this looks like it can be a stacked list if they can develop players well.

------------
WCE Mk4 Build...

#9 Ginbey
#14 Hewett
#14 Chesser

Even if we hide players, get a few draft steals and trade in missing pieces we are missing legitimate star power. The maths suggest we likely need to be looking at another 11ish top 15 picks with 5 being top 5
What I see likely is that we lose our nerve and peak a bit like 2011-2013 where we win most games at home and make finals but aren't a threat.

So how long will it take to build another 11 top 15 picks?

10 years?

That math don't add up. If true just fold the club.

 

[Obeanie1]

Two of their better players in that peroid considering most of the squad were average roleplayers. Rioli in particular is really good off the back flank currently but was always a good fwd.

Rioli was a fringe player during the flags playing forward. He was moved back after the third flag as a last chance to come good. And he did.

 

[kane249]

And Dangerfield went pick 10 the year Eagles picked Masten at 3.

At least we didn't pick Rhys Palmer

 

[Keys]

At least we didn't pick Rhys Palmer

Or Cale Morton

 

[suntagonal]

Or Cale Morton

... for pick 4...

 

[briztoon]

Looking at most of the good teams over the last decade it's all a glut of top 15 picks as a core and more importantly a great top end from picks #1-5. Also these are players that have "succeeded" with a hit rate of maybe 75%. That's probably 10x top 15 picks with 5x being top 5 picks.

Melb
#3 Jackson
#12 Pickett
#4 Oliver
#2 Petracca
#3 Brayshaw
#9 Salem

Rich
#15 Rioli
#9 vlastuin
#15 Ellis
#3 Martin
#2 Cotchin
#13 Riewoldt

Haw
#12 Rioli
#3 Ellis
#14 Birchall
#2 Roughead
#5 Franklin
#1 Hodge

NM themselves who should be better than they have shown already have:
#3 Sheezel
#4 Wardlaw
#3 Phillips
#13 Powell
#8 Thomas
#4 Davies-Uniacke
#12 Simpkin
#8 McDonald

Considering another year or two of top 4 picks, to me this looks like it can be a stacked list if they can develop players well.

------------
WCE Mk4 Build...

#9 Ginbey
#14 Hewett
#14 Chesser

Even if we hide players, get a few draft steals and trade in missing pieces we are missing legitimate star power. The maths suggest we likely need to be looking at another 11ish top 15 picks with 5 being top 5
What I see likely is that we lose our nerve and peak a bit like 2011-2013 where we win most games at home and make finals but aren't a threat.

Probably should include traded in and free agent players who were top picks on their draft year as well.

Though not drafted by “their” team, they can be star players for the team they won the premiership with.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Anyone heard on the likely timing of the AFLPA and AFL agreeing on a new EBA?

The cap is likely to go up substantially ( I believe it is around $14.7 mln but not easy to pin point) and we have very few long term contracts.

Of the likely higher salaried players, we have through to the end of the following years
2027 - Barrass
2025 - Kelly, Sheed, Allen
2024 - Darling, Gaff, Yeo
2023 - McGovern ($1.2 mln), Cripps

Because of a bog ordinary group of players from 22 to 27, we have very few players worthy of big salaries apart from those above.

West Coast have traditionally gone with a fixed annual salary and have not gone with the automatic AFL % increase but things may have changed after the Covid team wide haircut.

There was a big uptick in revenue from the Gather Round and I expect the players will want some of that. Plus Gil managed to screw more out of Fix and Channel 7. The players have also said they will not entertain a reduction so as to bring the AFLW players up.


It is no wonder that we are out there and being linked with the lure of coming home to a payday.

I would like to think we will be into a few free agents and reality is we will need to be generous to overpay in order to land them without losing picks.

Doggies are the obvious target with English and Naughton. They have a fairly high number of top end players that will be commanding substantial $$ and we can help keep the pressure on. Busslinger is another at the kennel we should be poaching.

Likewise with McDonald, Sydney anre having to catch up from Buddy having been at the front bar for too long. The likes of Heaney and Mills means that Logan will be likely only offered lowish $$.

With Freo having locked in Fyfe for another 2 years, I do not imagine he came cheaply and neither did Jackson so we should be in a better position to pay higher.

I am hoping with The Pieman as List Manager and based in Melbourne is doing his best to get more Victorians to move west. Hunt has been a decent pick up and we need to go hard at the clubs with fringe players being held out by top end (eg James Jordon at Demons, Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

at Saint Blunders, etc).


Granger-Barrass will be interesting as he is struggling to get a game at Hawthorn.

 

[ZergMinion]

West Coast have traditionally gone with a fixed annual salary and have not gone with the automatic AFL % increase but things may have changed after the Covid team wide haircut.

I am of the belief that the plethora or 2 year contracts for old players at the Eagles and Freo is a direct result of the Covid haircut.