Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XI - McKay. Goldstein. Gresham. Duursma!

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So, in my opinion, this is how I think it’s being proposed. It doesn’t mean I believe it, or agree with it, despite the amount of dimwitted Saints supporters LOL the post I made on the D&T board.

Gresham will be getting you guys pick 33 or so. It sounds like Gresham wants to come to Essendon and usually what the player wants, the player gets in FA.

Plus, it doesn’t look like St Kilda are desperate to keep him.

Now, at this stage, there is no Pick 13. It’s simply -
Essendon In: Gresham
St Kilda In: Pick 33.

So, it seems like we have asked St Kilda, are you guys keen on Shiel cause he is keen on leaving for a flag. You guys feel like you are close, or in the window so you have said, I’m listening.

Therefore, we have said, if we push the contract of Gresham to Band 1, could your trade that pick to us. Pick 13/19 or whatever.

Therefore it could look like
Essendon In: Gresham, Pick 13/19
St Kilda In: Shiel, maybe Pick in the 20’s.

What I believe a lot of St Kilda supporters are ignoring is that without us pushing the compo to Band 1, there is no Pick 13/19. So, while you would be trading a R1 pick, it’s still really Pick 33.

In normal circumstances, would Shiel for Pick 33 be a good deal for st Kilda?
I guess a lot of the differences between the two sets of supporters' opinions is due to the parts of the deal we have no way of knowing, i.e., player intention, club intention. Both your scenario here and my scenario assumes a couple of things.

Firstly, what Gresham wants. Essendon fans generally assume that he wants to play for you. We believe he just wants to be paid and doesn't care where that is, maybe with a preference for a club based at the MCG. This is the first thing that the whole deal relies on. If he truly does want to play for Essendon, then as you say he likely will and we will let him go for whatever compo we get, probably around pick 33 as you say.

BUT, if Gresh doesn't care where he plays, it's about the highest bidder. As I said, maybe Essendon don't value him enough to pay him something that triggers band 1 for us. That's fine, someone else will, or not. We might match your offer or let him go for that pick, probably around 33. The loser here is Gresh, who realises that he's not as good as he thinks he is.

Secondly, we would say that Ross Lyon doesn't think we're close to a flag, and that he's indifferent about getting Shiel. He has publicly stated he wants to go to the draft, that we have a thin midfield, etc. He's also pumped games into youth in 2023, implying that's the direction moving forward. We don't think he actually wants Shiel all that much, and it's just a bonus if we get him for cheap in terms of draft capital. I can't imagine that in the scenario where you pay Gresh enough to trigger Band 1, we send it back to you for Shiel. That's the issue I have with it.

I agree with you when you say that without you pushing up the compo, there is no pick 13/19. So be it. But if you do trigger pick 13/19 for us, it's because you value Gresham and not because you're getting the pick back.
 
I agree with you when you say that without you pushing up the compo, there is no pick 13/19. So be it. But if you do trigger pick 13/19 for us, it's because you value Gresham and not because you're getting the pick back.
Easiest way is to ask what St.Kilda is offering and if Essendon outbid by $250,000 then that should suggest we would be wanting something back in return.
 

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136 goals and 109 behinds in 136 games.
21.16 this year. Is that really the second worst player in front of goal this year ?
I think he's a smart move.
We lack goal threats.

If we turn his FA signing into 13 as well, purely through cap space trading, thats a cracking outcome.
 
136 goals and 109 behinds in 136 games.
21.16 this year. Is that really the second worst player in front of goal this year ?

B4BBB165-0BED-4B9B-9BF7-70966946AD2D.jpeg

Admittedly this is an advanced metric, probably speaks to a combination of poor finishing and him taking a lot of low percentage shots.
 
I can't imagine that in the scenario where you pay Gresh enough to trigger Band 1, we send it back to you for Shiel. That's the issue I have with it.
If Gresham is worth pick 33 (from your quote), why would Essendon pay him enough to get St Kilda band 1?
Too much focus is going to Gresham and Shiel, they are just the pawns.
 
If Gresham is worth pick 33 (from your quote), why would Essendon pay him enough to get St Kilda band 1?
Too much focus is going to Gresham and Shiel, they are just the pawns.
You missed the point of what I wrote
 
But if you do trigger pick 13/19 for us, it's because you value Gresham and not because you're getting the pick back.
I don't pretend to know what my club is ever thinking but I'd be shocked if they were willing to pay him enough to trigger 13/19 unless the deal was it was coming back to us.

Having said that, it wouldn't be the first time my club has shocked me so 🤷‍♂️
 
I agree with you when you say that without you pushing up the compo, there is no pick 13/19. So be it. But if you do trigger pick 13/19 for us, it's because you value Gresham and not because you're getting the pick back.

No one in their right mind incl both clubs would value Gresham that much..$750k? You can’t be serious? Of course the ONLY reason we would would be to get the pick.

We have no idea what his intentions are …some media have gone with Saints don’t want him…who knows.

Suppose for Saints fans is do they value pick 33 more highly than a free and cheap Shiel?
 

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So in a nutshell, St.Kilda supporters think that we need to pay Gresham band 1 salary in order for us to get him and as. favour for doing so we take Shiel's salary as a good will gesture for getting them an early pick.


Weird take but that's the thought process it seems
Which doesn’t really make sense when we are almost just moving Sheila wage to Gresh plus extending it for a few more years
 
I agree with you when you say that without you pushing up the compo, there is no pick 13/19. So be it. But if you do trigger pick 13/19 for us, it's because you value Gresham and not because you're getting the pick back.
No. The reason why we would trigger 13-19 is because there is something in it for us.

What that is, and how it involves Shiel is what is up for debate.

I don’t think you understand.
 
Which doesn’t really make sense when we are almost just moving Sheila wage to Gresh plus extending it for a few more years
apparently we want Gresham that much we should pay him enough to trigger band 1 compensation. As a good will gesture Saints take Shiel's wage. Genuinely weird concept
 
You missed the point of what I wrote
What you wrote was a longer version of ‘Saints aren’t trading pick 13 for a broken down Dylan Shiel’. You are still to focussed on how St Kilda benefit
Beerfish gets it
I don't pretend to know what my club is ever thinking but I'd be shocked if they were willing to pay him enough to trigger 13/19 unless the deal was it was coming back to us.

Having said that, it wouldn't be the first time my club has shocked me so

Saints aren’t trading pick 13 for Shiel. Essendon aren’t creating 13 without a big benefit coming back. There’s something missing as Ralph never reported the full story.
 
I don't pretend to know what my club or your club or any club is doing. As a wise man once said 'we're just **** on an internet forum'. I'm looking at this based on the information available and where the Saints have publicly stated they want to go (the draft). Media reporting is intentionally sensationalist to create controversy (case and point). I have no doubt this option has been put to the club by Ess, hence the usual seagull journalist pieces, but I will be floored if they actually trade a FRP for 31 year old broken Dylan Shiel.
There are multiple reputable journalists running with it. We also have a rumour thread on the trade board where we've been tracking the various things they report and see whether it's true or not, which we've done for a couple of years now. Turns out, not so sensationalist.

You don't have to believe it but you don't get to lecture us because we don't have our heads in the sand.

also, he ain't 31 (yet) and he ain't broken.
 
Yeh I’m not sure how it would go down in the locker room. Knowing the club is willing to overpay someone 300k there worth. Will make it hard next year when blokes like ridley come out of contract
Is pick 13 (becomes probably 16-17) worth it when you potentially get the whole playing list off side and it costs you players further down the track.
Ridley and others have been overpaid relative to their actual worth in 2021 and 2022 because their salaries were brought forward. Glass houses and all that.

As long as whatever Gresham gets is fair and reasonable over the course of his career, that's what should matter.
 
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