Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XI - McKay. Goldstein. Gresham. Duursma!

[Lore]

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Trade wrap: Essendon player movement period

See all the movements from the 2023 trade period.

www.essendonfc.com.au

 

[pebblesofsand]

There are multiple reputable journalists running with it. We also have a rumour thread on the trade board where we've been tracking the various things they report and see whether it's true or not, which we've done for a couple of years now. Turns out, not so sensationalist.

You don't have to believe it but you don't get to lecture us because we don't have our heads in the sand.

also, he ain't 31 (yet) and he ain't broken.

Strikes me that Shiel has been told he's not required at Essendon otherwise why is he (and the club) shopping him to the Saints?

That alone clearly reduces his value before you consider that he will be 31 before he plays his next game assuming he recovers from his current injury.

And that he has missed on average 10 games a year for the last 4 years.

 

[Call Me Cake]

And that he has missed on average 10 games a year for the last 4 years.

Dylan Shiel -

15 games out of 17 in 2020 (88.2%)
8 in 2021 (33%)
19 in 2022 (84%)
12 in 2023 (50%)

64% game time average.

Jade Gresham -

11 games out of 17 in 2020 (64%)
3 in 2021 (13%)
18 in 2022 (78%)
23 in 2023 (95.8%)

62.7% game time average.
11.2 goals average per season.

Now let's look at Archie Perkins...

21 games in 2021 (91%)
18 in 2022 (78%)
23 in 2023 (96%)

88.4% game time average.
14.3 goals average per season.
Just 21.

Saint divas acting like Gresham is Cyril Rioli and playing hard ball with the compo feels like a delusion not worth dealing with.

If the compo (that we'd create) wasn't a factor I'd rather overpay Perkins

 

[pebblesofsand]

Dylan Shiel -

15 games out of 17 in 2020 (88.2%)
8 in 2021 (33%)
19 in 2022 (84%)
12 in 2023 (50%)

64% game time average.

Jade Gresham -

11 games out of 17 in 2020 (64%)
3 in 2021 (13%)
18 in 2022 (78%)
23 in 2023 (95.8%)

62.7% game time average.
11.2 goals average per season.

Now let's look at Archie Perkins...

21 games in 2021 (91%)
18 in 2022 (78%)
23 in 2023 (96%)

88.4% game time average.
14.3 goals average per season.
Just 21.

Saint divas acting like Gresham is Cyril Rioli and playing hard ball with the compo feels like a delusion not worth dealing with.

If the compo (that we'd create) wasn't a factor I'd rather overpay Perkins

You're the ones chasing Gresham so you will decide what you think he is worth to you. Its as simple as that.

Because of the requirements of the salary cap he's currently getting paid top $'s (definitely Band 2 wage) at the Saints but he's looking at cut in the guaranteed for his next contract.

So if Essendon don't offer something similar to what he is currently on I doubt he'll move simply for the sake of it. He is not unhappy at St Kilda.

So if he moves its looking like Band 2, end of first round compo.

Then its a matter of how much you do you actually want to get rid of Shiel and how much we think its worth to take him on in order to upgrade from end of first to Pick 13.

And none of us actually have any idea about how both clubs view that outcome.

 

[ant555]

You're the ones chasing Gresham so you will decide what you think he is worth to you. Its as simple as that.

Because of the requirements of the salary cap he's currently getting paid top $'s (definitely Band 2 wage) at the Saints but he's looking at cut in the guaranteed for his next contract.

So if Essendon don't offer something similar to what he is currently on I doubt he'll move simply for the sake of it. He is not unhappy at St Kilda.

So if he moves its looking like Band 2, end of first round compo.

Then its a matter of how much you do you actually want to get rid of Shiel and how much we think its worth to take him on in order to upgrade from end of first to Pick 13.

And none of us actually have any idea about how both clubs view that outcome.

Why are you here ?

 

[pebblesofsand]

Why are you here ?

If you're rejecting the very reasonable possibility that I'm here to discuss a AFL trade option on an AFL fan forum, I've got to say that's a rather existential question for this time in the morning.

But since you've asked I'm sort of a fan of Aristotle and his concept that the purpose and the ultimate goal in life is to achieve happiness.

And to help me down that path - I'm off for a surf.

Enjoy your day.

 

[ghostdog]

If you're rejecting the very reasonable possibility that I'm here to discuss a AFL trade option on an AFL fan forum, I've got to say that's a rather existential question for this time in the morning.

But since you've asked I'm sort of a fan of Aristotle and his concept that the purpose and the ultimate goal in life is to achieve happiness.

And to help me down that path - I'm off for a surf.

Enjoy your day.

Aristotle also believed people were simply tools.
I mean, I don't usually...

 

[ant555]

If you're rejecting the very reasonable possibility that I'm here to discuss a AFL trade option on an AFL fan forum, I've got to say that's a rather existential question for this time in the morning.

But since you've asked I'm sort of a fan of Aristotle and his concept that the purpose and the ultimate goal in life is to achieve happiness.

And to help me down that path - I'm off for a surf.

Enjoy your day.

Trouble is there is no reasonable possibility to discuss an AFL trade option that will not end up with some over reaction from some posters which is why we have an Essendon board and why you can not find a post of mine on the St.Kilda board. The place you are looking for is the "trade " board .

 

[faible]

Gresham would be on a similar deal to Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

or Brandon Ellis

4

Brandon Ellis

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

12.9

5star

HB

5.6

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

1.4

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

1.0

3star

who both got Band 3 compo…

 

[mike ross]

What about Goldstein. Is he going to ask for a trade to Collingwood after the GF?

 

[eth-dog]

What about Goldstein. Is he going to ask for a trade to Collingwood after the GF?

He'll nominate whoever after the GF. He's a free agent

 

[EnolaGay]

I’m getting flashbacks to when Ameet and the Aints (and their supporters) under no circumstances they were going to pay up pick 6 in the Carlisle deal


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Beerfish]

If you're rejecting the very reasonable possibility that I'm here to discuss a AFL trade option on an AFL fan forum, I've got to say that's a rather existential question for this time in the morning.

But since you've asked I'm sort of a fan of Aristotle and his concept that the purpose and the ultimate goal in life is to achieve happiness.

And to help me down that path - I'm off for a surf.

Enjoy your day.

Quite. Enjoy your day off.

 

[Gumby2Hurley]

Strikes me that Shiel has been told he's not required at Essendon otherwise why is he (and the club) shopping him to the Saints?

That alone clearly reduces his value before you consider that he will be 31 before he plays his next game assuming he recovers from his current injury.

And that he has missed on average 10 games a year for the last 4 years.

you haven't offered gresham a contract g

 

[Zach Package]

Wonder if the highly Americanised crud that continues to invade the player movement landscape for the sake of clicks and making it a marketable product is actually a good thing, a fair bit of nuance there that the average fan doesn’t get and journos can’t explain.

 

[jdstorm]

Wonder if the highly Americanised crud that continues to invade the player movement landscape for the sake of clicks and making it a marketable product is actually a good thing, a fair bit of nuance there that the average fan doesn’t get and journos can’t explain.

The more it happens the smarter people get. A combination of dumb National journos on boys club jobs and the fact the AFL creates the rules on the fly is what makes it complicated for most

 

[Zach Package]

The more it happens the smarter people get. A combination of dumb National journos on boys club jobs and the fact the AFL creates the rules on the fly is what makes it complicated for most

It’ll take a generation at this rate.

What’s causing Saints fans to go absolutely off their nut is a fundamental misunderstanding of what’s actually going on and why because they’re listening to the gospel according to Sam Edmund.

 

[ant555]

It’ll take a generation at this rate.

What’s causing Saints fans to go absolutely off their nut is a fundamental misunderstanding of what’s actually going on and why because they’re listening to the gospel according to Sam Edmund.

Think it has been more the gospel of John Ralph

 

[Beerfish]

They're comparing Shiel to Dan Hannebery over there. Didn't his ankle come in a separate box of 50 pieces when they traded him in?

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

If you're rejecting the very reasonable possibility that I'm here to discuss a AFL trade option on an AFL fan forum, I've got to say that's a rather existential question for this time in the morning.

But since you've asked I'm sort of a fan of Aristotle and his concept that the purpose and the ultimate goal in life is to achieve happiness.

And to help me down that path - I'm off for a surf.

Enjoy your day.

While you're at it, drink some hemlock.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

This is the saints that said they wouldn't trade pick 5 for Carlisle and then traded pick 5 for Carlisle.

It’s also the club that not only thought that hiring a dwarf for a mad Monday was a good idea, but that setting him on fire would be good for a laugh

 

[BrunoV]

If you're rejecting the very reasonable possibility that I'm here to discuss a AFL trade option on an AFL fan forum, I've got to say that's a rather existential question for this time in the morning.

But since you've asked I'm sort of a fan of Aristotle and his concept that the purpose and the ultimate goal in life is to achieve happiness.

And to help me down that path - I'm off for a surf.

Enjoy your day.

I guess the starting point is that the key part of the scenario isn't a 'trade'.

It's not a pedantic point. It's pretty clear that the anxiety on the St Kilda side of this stems from that key misunderstanding.

We decide what we pay from Gresham under FA rules. That then produces a pick for St Kilda that didn't previously exist. Key point.

Essendon and St Kilda are currently working out the detail of a side deal that will serve everyone's interests to work out what Essendon pays for Gresham. Maybe it needs more than Shiel for free. Fair enough but it's not going to be sheep stations. We're in pick exchange territory as Essendon won't cut off its nose to spite its face. Paying a normal market value in terms of picks or players defeats the point of the proposal.

That side deal needs AFL approval to be part of the FA agreement because it can't otherwise be enforced as part of the FA offer. Everyone needs the protection of enforceability for different reasons.

If we don't get pick 13 as part of the deal or something of equal value we're not paying band 1 comp and pick 13, as a St Kilda pick, never exists.

The AFL probably shouldn't let the side deal form part of the FA offer. So be it. We then offer an objective market value for Gresham which triggers band 3 comp (bearing in mind that St Kilda hasn't made an offer yet, has it?). If St Kilda wants to keep Gresham so be it.

Under the terms of the proposal, as it would be approved, you're not being asked to give away something you ever had.

Now maybe your board or footy director or someone with the authority to cancel the deal thinks 'f this, we're not helping those pricks this much' and pulls the pin. Fair enough.

There is nothing adversarial about this scenario. If anything, it's Essendon + St Kilda v the AFL. It's fans not understanding the proposal that is the source of anxiety.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

AFL trade period always reminds me of Daryl Morey saying, while he was Houston's GM, that all he needs is for there to keep being six or seven really dumb teams and he'll be fine.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

I guess the starting point is that the key part of the scenario isn't a 'trade'.

It's not a pedantic point. It's pretty clear that the anxiety on the St Kilda side of this stems from that key misunderstanding.

We decide what we pay from Gresham under FA rules. That then produces a pick for St Kilda that didn't previously exist. Key point.

Essendon and St Kilda are currently working out the detail of a side deal that wil serve everyone's interests to work out what Essendon pays for Gresham. Maybe it needs more than Shiel for free. Fair enough but it's not going to be sheep stations. We're in pick exchange territory as Essendon won't cut off its nose to spite its face, paying a normal market value in terms of picks or players defeats the point of the proposal.

That side deal needs AFL approval to be part of the FA agreement because it can't otherwise be enforced as part of the FA offer. Everyone needs the protection of enforceability for different reasons.

If we don't get pick 13 as part of the deal or something of equal value we're not paying band 1 comp and pick 13, as a St Kilda pick, never exists.

The AFL probably shouldn't let the side deal go through. So be it. We then offer an objective market value deal for Gresham which triggers band 3 comp (bearing in mind that St Kilda hasn't made an offer yet, has it?). If St Kilda wants to keep Gresham so be it.

Under the terms of the proposal, as it would be approved, you're not being asked to give away something you ever had.

Now maybe your board or footy director or someone with the authority to cancel the deal thinks 'f this, we're not helping those pricks this much' and pulls the pin. Fair enough.

There is nothing adversarial about this scenario. If anything, it's Essendon + St Kilda v the AFL. It's fans not understanding the proposal that is the source of anxiety.

 

[jdstorm]

Think it has been more the gospel of John Ralph

To be fair Salary trading under a salary cap structure doesn’t to my knowledge happen anywhere else globally in the sense that a players previous club pay part of their salary post trade.

Trying to explain to people that the concept of on field value and contract value are different but interlinked and having people understand that player X is on a good deal at 400k but massively overpaid at 800k is hard enough.

Let alone trying to explain that the difference between those contracts has a measurable value in draft points

 

[eth-dog]

Do you really think a first round draft pick is coming your way for Shiel?

He is on a lot of coin, hasn’t been in your best 22 and is injury prone. Along with Ross saying we need want to get into the pointy end of the draft.

It doesn’t make sense.

I have read comments referencing the Carslile deal which also doesn’t make sense as the people who made that trade are no longer at the club.

The drugs must of made its way into your bigfooty forums, as you all seem to be on the good stuff.

Please point to the last time he played VFL.