List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Key Dates:

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Draft Period, November 20–22

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
• Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
• Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
• Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm

* List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)

 

[ShireSwan]

The draft supposedly has a clear number 1, a close 2-5 and a close 6-15. After that players 16-36 are relatively close.

I'd much rather keep our first pick as we'll likely get one of those top 15 but if the ones we rate are gone we should just trade into next year

O'Sullivan, Darcy Wilson or bust? Will need to trade up to get either. I would on either.
I think our pick comes right at the fall-off and we're picking at the 16 to 36 range...so perhaps does make sense to sell into next year.

If we keep it and the above two are gone then Schoenmaker might have some physical tools on a wing our list doesn't have at present. We have a lot of short/average height players, of average to fair speed. Wouldn't be unhappy to take a chance on Arie as a point of difference. .

 

[bedford]

Jones was lucky to get a new contract this season. I'll be shocked if he gets to 200 games. He's a shadow of the player who left the Swans

He was never more than a try hard who was prone to dumb moments , too inconsistent

 

[Bandicoot]

He was never more than a try hard who was prone to dumb moments , too inconsistent

You could almost guarantee that he would turn it over with most of his disposals as well.

 

[SydneyPhilly]

You just guessing or is this a leake of info?

View attachment 1838437

I'll pay that.

Just a hunch, but I had Konstanty to us last year on a hunch as well.

Swans love their versatile defenders, and he can play the Rampe role in a couple of years as has the height and play style. He also interviewed with us.

Only thing I can't see is his combine numbers, which th Swans pay careful attention to the endurance numbers

 

[Adnico26Parker]

I'll pay that.

Just a hunch, but I had Konstanty to us last year on a hunch as well.

Swans love their versatile defenders, and he can play the Rampe role in a couple of years as has the height and play style. He also interviewed with us.

Only thing I can't see is his combine numbers, which th Swans pay careful attention to the endurance numbers

He said this morning all 18 teams had interviewed him.

He didn't test at the Combine because of a hamstring issue.

 

[Bloods86]

For the last decade its been:

2012: Pick 22, Dean Towers. Not a hit, but also not really a first rounder
2013: Pick 15 Zac Jones: On track for 200 games. Didn't work out for us but not a s**t player
2016: Pick 13: Florent, Pick 21: Hayward: Both on track for 200 games
2017: Pick 14: Matt Ling. Big miss
2019: Pick 5: Dylan Stephens: Big miss
2020: Pick 4: Logan Mcdonald: Too early to tell
2021: Pick 18 Angus Sheldrick: Too early to tell
2022: Pick 20: Jacob Konstanty: Too early to tell.

We haven't actually had that many high first round picks, and with what we've had, we're as likely to draft a 200 game player as a bust.

With Jones, I could see why we drafted him. But hard to know how much his inability to hit consistent heights is due to development or his mentality, suspect more the latter, where maybe we thought we could overcome his attitude and decision making.

I don't see Ling as a miss. I know people think he was a big reach (untrue), but he was ruined by injury. We don't know how he would have turned out otherwise.

Stephens, I think there is something to be said for development, although many seem to judge list managers in a vacuum. It's possible we didn't know what we recruited Dyl for, or we tried to develop against his natural instincts. Personally I think he wanted to be an inside mid who physically wasn't ready earlier on. Who knows how much effort we put into changing his approach to F50 entries, given we've let it slide for many others. And we treated him a bit more harshly than some at selection. Unfortunately he's gone to North, not exactly the best development factory.

Towers is the only out and out bust for me in that list, in terms of list management. We saw his late rise and accolades in the VFL as a projection of much greater heights (mind you, Pick 22 is pretty late for a 1st rounder, and there wasn't a lot taken after him that succeeded). When you combine it with development then we haven't got what we wanted out of Jones, Stephens etc.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Until Logan re-signs, I’ll continue to worry that dumping him for the GF was the worst decision in Swans’ history.

The young fella is surely still peeved about it.

 

[SydneyPhilly]

He said this morning all 18 teams had interviewed him.

He didn't test at the Combine because of a hamstring issue.

Yep, saw the 18 teams thing too. By all accounts really held himself well in interviews as well.

Wasn't aware of the hamstring issue, though. Cheers.

 

[caesar88]

Besides Stephens over Serong I think Dalrymple (2018+) has been good. Always could be better but that's the nature of the job.

I don't really know how we can judge Dalrymple either way yet. Due to academy players and the like, he's only had four live first round picks (Stephens, McDonald, Sheldrick and Konstanty.)

One of those didn't work out and the other three it's too soon to tell, though I think McDonald's on his way to being a quality player for us (could argue he already is - 30+ goals as a 21 year old ain't bad going.)

 

[Jewelsbon]

Until Logan re-signs, I’ll continue to worry that dumping him for the GF was the worst decision in Swans’ history.

The young fella is surely still peeved about it.

I have told this story before but it's worth repeating - I sat next to his grandfather at the GF and his Pop told me that Logan loves Sydney life, his mates here and the club. He was disappointed but not surprised at his omission from the game and knew his form had been poor. He took it as a driver to make him better and I quote "make him undroppable" for this season passed, and I believe he did.
Of course Pop could have been talking out his backside, saying what I wanted to hear, but I didn't get that impression. He came across very sincere and a lovely old gentleman to boot.

I'd be really, REALLY surprised if Logan doesn't re-sign this year and completely stunned if he pulled a Dawson.

 

[caesar88]

Until Logan re-signs, I’ll continue to worry that dumping him for the GF was the worst decision in Swans’ history.

The young fella is surely still peeved about it.

Not knocking him as he's developing obviously, but I think he'd be peeved at himself more than the coaches. It is rare to play two virtually anonymous finals and expect to get selected for a third. Hindsight says both he and McLean should've been playing with Reid missing out, but it wouldn't have made one iota of difference to the outcome.

 

[S120]

I have told this story before but it's worth repeating - I sat next to his grandfather at the GF and his Pop told me that Logan loves Sydney life, his mates here and the club. He was disappointed but not surprised at his omission from the game and knew his form had been poor. He took it as a driver to make him better and I quote "make him undroppable" for this season passed, and I believe he did.
Of course Pop could have been talking out his backside, saying what I wanted to hear, but I didn't get that impression. He came across very sincere and a lovely old gentleman to boot.

I'd be really, REALLY surprised if Logan doesn't re-sign this year and completely stunned if he pulled a Dawson.

Hadn't heard this info yet, very interesting and it accords with the type of guy I see Logan as. Seems a straight forward and connected guy in the club. I'm confident he'll re-sign and will be surprised if he doesn't.

 

[Kiama Chris]

With Jones, I could see why we drafted him. But hard to know how much his inability to hit consistent heights is due to development or his mentality, suspect more the latter, where maybe we thought we could overcome his attitude and decision making.

I don't see Ling as a miss. I know people think he was a big reach (untrue), but he was ruined by injury. We don't know how he would have turned out otherwise.

Stephens, I think there is something to be said for development, although many seem to judge list managers in a vacuum. It's possible we didn't know what we recruited Dyl for, or we tried to develop against his natural instincts. Personally I think he wanted to be an inside mid who physically wasn't ready earlier on. Who knows how much effort we put into changing his approach to F50 entries, given we've let it slide for many others. And we treated him a bit more harshly than some at selection. Unfortunately he's gone to North, not exactly the best development factory.

Towers is the only out and out bust for me in that list, in terms of list management. We saw his late rise and accolades in the VFL as a projection of much greater heights (mind you, Pick 22 is pretty late for a 1st rounder, and there wasn't a lot taken after him that succeeded). When you combine it with development then we haven't got what we wanted out of Jones, Stephens etc.

Towers and Stephens have/had a similar issue in a lack of ability to quickly size up an opportunity and execute. All between the ears. Perhaps it's confidence or perhaps it's a brain function thing. Melican has this issue too, though to a lesser extent. It shows as hesitation.
Not a deliberate delay but definitely uncertainty.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Until Logan re-signs, I’ll continue to worry that dumping him for the GF was the worst decision in Swans’ history.

The young fella is surely still peeved about it.

Don't know about the second but agree with the first. Should have picked the same team as the Prelim and given Reid a late fitness test, failed him and brought McLean in. Much more positive approach to managing people. Big failure by .
No effect on outcome but honest reflection should tell him that.
Hope Logan has gotten past it, he says so.

 

[Bloods86]

Towers and Stephens have/had a similar issue in a lack of ability to quickly size up an opportunity and execute. All between the ears. Perhaps it's confidence or perhaps it's a brain function thing. Melican has this issue too, though to a lesser extent. It shows as hesitation.
Not a deliberate delay but definitely uncertainty.

Based on Stephens in his few opportunities from 2020, I thought his attack at the footy was great. What we saw after that was him hovering around contests looking like he didn't know what to do. The only explanations I have are his 2021 pre season concussion had an impact, or more likely, he was being coached out of his natural instincts to just go for it. I also don't think we're a great club at taking players with questionable decision making going into F50 and rectifying it, or even bothering that much. Confidence would also play a part and I don't think we helped him much by dropping him a few times when others would survive for longer.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Based on Stephens in his few opportunities from 2020, I thought his attack at the footy was great. What we saw after that was him hovering around contests looking like he didn't know what to do. The only explanations I have are his 2021 pre season concussion had an impact, or more likely, he was being coached out of his natural instincts to just go for it. I also don't think we're a great club at taking players with questionable decision making going into F50 and rectifying it, or even bothering that much. Confidence would also play a part and I don't think we helped him much by dropping him a few times when others would survive for longer.

Seen that response about others getting a longer run at it and I guess it may look like that from outside but we don't know the dialogue between coaches and player before, during and after. It might be completely absent, just expecting the player to "have a go" and demonstrate their instincts or perhaps it's quite detailed. Or worse, it's contradictory. We'll never know I guess.
If he plays more naturally at North we'll know.

 

[BloodySwan]

Until Logan re-signs, I’ll continue to worry that dumping him for the GF was the worst decision in Swans’ history.

The young fella is surely still peeved about it.

Freo won't even make a grand final for him to be dropped for. That club is in a shambles

 

[bedford]

Freo won't even make a grand final for him to be dropped for. That club is in a shambles

Nothing to do with it

 

[momentbymoment]

Won't be cheap but sometimes you just grab the 10 yr CHB that's a local

List is in a good place so we can get the guys we want

I think we are going around this all wrong. If a local player ends up in another state we should be trading him back after 2 years.

Time for some reverse Go Home effect.

 

[bedford]

I think we are going around this all wrong. If a local player ends up in another state we should be trading him back after 2 years.

Time for some reverse Go Home effect.

Doesn't work that way , some just love the attention in the heartland

 

[momentbymoment]

Until Logan re-signs, I’ll continue to worry that dumping him for the GF was the worst decision in Swans’ history.

The young fella is surely still peeved about it.

On the contrary, I think he probably thanks his lucky stars he wasn’t part of that. And I am glad he doesn’t have that albatross around his neck.

So far things are going well.
He is in a good team.
Playing well.
Has a good bunch of mates.
We just need to hook him up with a Sydney girl (preferably one who hates being away from the family).

 

[caesar88]

Doesn't work that way , some just love the attention in the heartland

I wouldn't just say some, I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority would.

Players aren't naive as to what the perception of them within the footy world is now because of social media. They know they can get sponsorships on Instagram, they can get endorsements from trending on TikTok, they get pumped up on all of the 51423485313 footy programs on TV these days and it feels like more and more of them are actively leaning into that, including wanting to play in the spotlight.

They're professional athletes and a lot of them are already used to being the stars of their junior/local team, friend group, etc. so by nature, generally speaking, they're not going to mind attention, hype or pressure, and a good portion of them would actively seek it.

I think the public would have to be downright invasive and abusive of their personal space for it to drive them out of that kind of setting. I don't know that that is all that common now days as societal norms have changed, but I have seen it happen from time to time (I posted just last week about seeing Aaron Naughton getting mobbed whilst out at a bar.)

 

[sataris]

I wouldn't just say some, I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority would.

Players aren't naive as to what the perception of them within the footy world is now because of social media. They know they can get sponsorships on Instagram, they can get endorsements from trending on TikTok, they get pumped up on all of the 51423485313 footy programs on TV these days and it feels like more and more of them are actively leaning into that, including wanting to play in the spotlight.

They're professional athletes and a lot of them are already used to being the stars of their junior/local team, friend group, etc. so by nature, generally speaking, they're not going to mind attention, hype or pressure, and a good portion of them would actively seek it.

I think the public would have to be downright invasive and abusive of their personal space for it to drive them out of that kind of setting. I don't know that that is all that common now days as societal norms have changed, but I have seen it happen from time to time (I posted just last week about seeing Aaron Naughton getting mobbed whilst out at a bar.)

Lots of players are also intensely private.

 

[caesar88]

Lots of players are also intensely private.

Agreed

 

[bedford]

Agreed

And some on BF , all walks of life